I am being honest and far more rational than you. The reason that you are leaving the debate is because you do not want to admit I have a point and you are too scared and too brainwashed to see reality. But you keep rocking back and forward in your corner repeating your dogma and eventually you will be back in the safe place. You will not seek open minded people, you will seek people who you can win your argument with and who reinforce your views and dont challenge them. Because as a member of religion, you are weak minded.
"I don't believe just by saying I don't see a God therefore he doesn't exist is a good argument"
lol, what makes you think that a person saying "I believe even though I see no evidence" is a good argument.
At least someone who doesnt believe, has a good reason, they have no proof to make them believe. You have absolutely no proof but you still believe, that is completely illogical. Belief must be founded in proof, or in action.
The proof for a non-believer is the absence of proof. It follows that the belief for a believer should be the existence of proof.
Lets for a moment assume that god does exist and that I meet him. What universal rule says that I should believe in him as an omnipotent, omnipresent being. Why is it that his power makes him better than me, according to his own rules, all life is equal, so I am equal to him in whatever form of life he manifests. His track record as a carer of his flock is not very encouraging. If it is the influence of him over the devil that dictates the actions of humans, then it appears that he is loosing the battle. As we evolve as a species, it will be the realisation that anger, hate, harm and greed are detrimental to our ability to keep going as a species. God will play no part in changing who we are and in the very near future, religion will be left behind. It has worked as training wheels for morality, but we have grown and it is time for us to leave those childish ideas behind.
Entropy comes down to what you consider disorder, or order. If lay a piece of rope out all over the floor in many hoops, all tangled and "disordered", if I look close enough at small parts of this tangled mess, there will be perfectly straight lines, perfect curves, "order" somewhere. That doesnt mean that I spent hours trying to concoct a twisted mess in order to create a few perfect parts, that would be foolishness and if you believe that god did that, then you dont have very high regard for him.
Atheism is a belief not a belief system, there is a vast difference. Atheism is not a way of life for me, it is just a belief I hold, like the belief that taking a life can sometimes be justified. Your life and who you are is based around your belief, so you hold the responsibility to prove gods existence. "Gods forgiveness" How do you know he forgives? what signs does god give that he forgives? He may still be the very vengeful god from the first testament. You only have humans from a long time ago, with no proof themselves of gods existence, to prove that he changed his mind and became the forgiving god you talk about. Throughout time there has only ever been the human word to prove his existence. God has never revealed himself to anyone and if he did, it was always to one man, in the middle of nowhere, with no witnesses. Convenient, I think so. Why are you so willing to trust people who had as much proof as you did, after all that is what you are doing, the bible was written with human hands.
They didnt happen by chance, they evolved from far simpler forms. The planets and solar systems evolved and grew and with growth comes complexity. I grow and as I grow, the way I think, the way I act hopefully becomes more complex as I adapt to new environments, adjust to knew interactions. In the beginning it was simple, life as it moves forward inevitably becomes more complex as more things are added to the soup. If god did build this universal machine, then why, what is the object of it. Oh let me guess "Ours is not to wonder why, ours is but to do and die". And if he did build it, hes doing a terrible job of maintaining it.
I dont have to prove god exists or doesnt, I am not part of a religion that is based around the idea of god. You are and so responsibility lies with you to prove his existence. I have studied religion, this is why I am an atheist. If you take unbiased look at the history of religion, you will see it is a flawed and childish system. I did not say that people with less faith do not believe. Just that people who show more conviction, according to the rules of "YOUR" faith are "right". If you truly dig deeply into the history of the Christianity, if you set aside your beliefs for a moment and look objectively, you will see also that a religious person is a lost person. For godsake! The man that Christians point to as one of the most important historical figures for the building of the faith, Constantine, was a jaded politician who saw that in order to retain his power he would have to accept the early form of Christianity as a religion.
"Ya know, it not a matter of who's god is stronger. I have my beliefs and they have theirs."
That is an outright lie, because you believe that your god is the one and only true god and every other god is false. Your faith and that of all christians, muslims, hindus, is based on the idea that the respective god or gods is or are the one and only, the true light. Since faith is the requirement for proof within each of these religions, then those with more faith win. Islamic Extremists may take other peoples lives, but they give their own in the "faith" that this is what their god truly wants. This willingness to sacrifice themselves is direct proof of the depth of their faith and so proof, according to dogma of all faith based religions, that theirs is the one and only true god.
I would by yourself a koran if I was you, because when you get to the pearly gates, you might get a big surprise.
I tell you what. You come back to me after your child has been found in pieces on some dumpsite. Then tell me that "god changes lives" and that you would sit in a heaven with the murderer of your child. You Christians are so twisted in hypocrisy you don't know heaven from hell.
Really, well then if god forgives a person who rapes and kills a child just because he confesses, then repents, I guess so should the family involved. Wonder what the family of the victim would say about a person who had done something like that being let into heaven just because he said he was sorry.
Your right "there are none so blind than those who will not see"
In regards to conviction. Are you willing to give up your life and that of your family for faith, because Islamic extremists are. I would say that makes them the winners in the faith and convictions stakes and by proxy that would make their god stronger than yours.
lol, but I thought god was all powerful, are you telling me that when it comes to a battle between god and the devil, god loses on a regular basis, or is it that he just cant be arsed protecting his flock. Why is it that your god only protects you and not other people who live good and truthful lives, who do vast amounts for the community and their fellow man. Does getting into heaven come down to picking sides, like some school yard battle between bullies. Why is it that the gods of other religions are wrong yours is right, I would say that there are others in different religions with more conviction in their god than you. What makes you so sure the real god is not a many armed Indian god. None of you have any proof. Your faith is not founded in anything that makes sense, there is no common or good sense in religion. Just think about it for a second, really think about it, if you are not too brainwashed already. Think about the nonsensical nature of it.
If I am wrong and god exists, then I will stand in front of him and make him answer for the atrocities he has committed in this little experiment of his, then I will happily walk myself into hell. The problem with heaven is that it is full of Christians, I would much rather be in hell with the interesting people.
Ahhhhh, wrong, Jews ordered it, Romans carried it out. Im sure most would agree that the person ordering the execution had some responsibility in the death.
Your a foolish, weak minded old man who is happy to hand over responsibility for your life and your actions to a fairy. What makes you think I would pay any attention to anything you or your "god" told me to do, lmao.
The kuran just is another mongrel text, full of half truths, complete lies, fantasy and ridiculous assertions, just like the bible and all other religious text.
Did you know that the Kuran and the bible are brother and sister, originating from a movement called Zoroastrianism. Your Kuran and the bible are kiddy versions, weakened by time and the chinese whisper effect.
Lmao, your vein attempt at garnering her favor is obvious and pathetic. Hoping to get laid are we? Or perhaps those sort of saccharine suck ups are your best game.
What is the obsession particularly within the christian religion, with the seperationism of humans from the world we live in. Why is it so offensive to think that we evolved from monkeys. We are animals, we are part of this planet, apelike creatures underneath our clothes and we definitely act in an animalistic way. Why is it so offensive to be descended from as "they" would put it, one of gods creatures. This has always struck me as being incredibly hypocritical, but then what can you expect.
Dont know about the person your responding to. But I do, I find all people who are religious, "ridiculous"! That includes all those neo-pagans out there.
Great thread, have done a little reading about Constantine and knew about the purely political motivation for his acceptance and introduction of the Christian faith. Something which always makes me smile as Christians will often pronounce him as a believer and great historical christian figure, lol. I guess in a way he was, but not quite the way that Christians would like to believe.
Someone who wants no baggage, probably has no baggage and is completely boring, safe and uninteresting. Wouldnt touch someone like that with a ten foot barge pole.
I agree and I think personally that the idea that land holds a cultures history is flawed. The people hold its history, the land is merely the stage. Yes the places where great and terrible things happen are always remembered, but without the actions of the people involved, it's just dust. Having or not having the land does not change the history of it, so long as that is taught, the culture will never die. When people accept this, then we will be on our way to finding some harmony, in my opinion anyway
I agree with the need to grasp and never lose your laws, culture, language. The question of self government is another more complicated and dangerous idea. Unfortunately without the land and the power, you have to rely on the goodwill of the individual to respect your culture and its ways. Engendering goodwill within people to help support your fight, or to win them over and get them to accept your rights, feel your pain, understand, does not come from standing outside the city walls yelling and throwing rocks. This war is only won by infiltration.
Well, I guess that is your choice, a sad one, but its yours. As much as any government is willing to apologise and to give back, Canada and the land around it will never be the sovereign nation of your people again. It would be just as brutal and horrific for it to be taken from the new immigrants who have chosen to make Canada their home, not to mention the people who are Canadian born and bred. This is the same for the Maori in New Zealand, our government has settled huge treaty claims and are still in the process of settling many more, but NZ will never be a Maori sovereign state ever again. The only thing that can happen and should happen is the rebuilding of the culture and pride in it and the acceptance into the melting pot that is NZ. We are all immigrants if you look back far enough, we have all come from different places and if you will pardon me using an old Native American saying "The land, the water, the sky cannot be owned by anyone, we are merely caretakers".Something to that effect, you'll have to forgive me if I am a little inaccurate. We belong where we stand and only until we move. We are responsible for the welfare of the land as it how we live, but we can not own it! This may sound a little trite, but I believe it is eloquent and correct. Whether you are conceived there, or came on a boat, plane, train. If your history with the land is wrapped in thousands of years of tradition or in a land somewhere else, where you live is your responsibility and so your rightful place.
atomant Forum Posts (52)
RE: MIRACLES OF THE QUR'AN
lmao, thought you were gone, thought that was your last post.Did I get to you, did I wind you up.
Later believer.