Ireland's entitlement culture (98)

Apr 16, 2010 8:21 PM CST Ireland's entitlement culture
Ross30
Ross30Ross30Dublin, Ireland2 Threads 635 Posts
During the Celtic Tiger there were still over 100,000 lazy people who never got off their arses to work, also during the celtic tiger from 2000 till 2008 welfare rates increased by 101% with a real time increase of 67% after adjusting for inflation, is it any wonder why there is no incentive for people with kids to go out and work in low paid or medium paid jobs.

From 1197 till 2009 child benefit increased by over 300%, pensions increased over 120% from 1997 till 2009, the OAP was €99.04 per week in 1997 it is now over €230 per week, a pensioner shouldn't be getting more than €190 per week.


My point is that there is now an epidemic welfare entitlement culture in Ireland that will be very difficult to get rid of when Ireland comes out of recession.

Therefore the following proposals need to be implemented to generate a culture of personal responsibility amongst Irish people.

1)Cut the dole to between €150-155 per week in the next three budgets.
2)Cut the OAP to €190 per week over the next two budgets. A pensioner doesn't need €230 per week.
3) Cut child benefit to €100 per month for the first child.
4) When the youngest child reaches five stop giving the one parent family parent, currently it is 22 which is absolutely ridicoulous.

Also any future welfare increases from 2015 onwards should only be increased in line with inflation or the consumer price index, not above the rate of inflation. The celtic tioger welfare junkies did very well during the celtic tiger.
Apr 16, 2010 8:27 PM CST Ireland's entitlement culture
mcneillm
mcneillmmcneillmEnnis, Clare Ireland2 Threads 1,250 Posts
Before I decide to post a lengthy reply, do you actually mean this crap, or are you just trolling...
Apr 16, 2010 8:35 PM CST Ireland's entitlement culture
Gaelgoir
GaelgoirGaelgoirWaterford, Ireland20 Posts
If you think the unemployed are just lazy i actually feel sorry for you, how you got this far managing to be so socially ignorant is beyond me...
Apr 16, 2010 8:36 PM CST Ireland's entitlement culture
Ross30
Ross30Ross30Dublin, Ireland2 Threads 635 Posts
I mean what I say welfare spending went through the roof during the celtic tiger, welfare levels are now at 2008 levels when tax revenues are at 2003 levels, the government simply can't afford to be paying very generous welfare benefits any more, otherwise the IMF may have to come in and do a hatchet job on social welfare, Ireland is bankrupt.

Why is it crap, a lot of couples with kids are better off not working insteead of working in modestly paid jobs. Here's the inflation figures going back to 1999 which show that welfare spending went through the roof during the celtic tiger.

Apr 16, 2010 8:38 PM CST Ireland's entitlement culture
mcneillm
mcneillmmcneillmEnnis, Clare Ireland2 Threads 1,250 Posts
Gaelgoir: If you think the unemployed are just lazy i actually feel sorry for you, how you got this far managing to be so socially ignorant is beyond me...


Thank you.

There's a more fuller response in my head, but it's betting close to bed time, I'll prob just post it in the morning altogether.

BTW, maybe we should give him a break, he's probably a civil servant, and we've seen on the news recently how hard they work ...
Apr 16, 2010 8:38 PM CST Ireland's entitlement culture
LusciousLibra
LusciousLibraLusciousLibraTramore, Waterford Ireland28 Threads 2 Polls 1,870 Posts
Ross30:
4) When the youngest child reaches five stop giving the one parent family parent, currently it is 22 which is absolutely ridicoulous.



Are you trying to say that when a child turns 5 we should just let them starve? go un-clothed? uneducated? fend for themselves?... 'Rex will find his own dinner tonight'

And where did you get the figure of 22?confused
Apr 16, 2010 8:38 PM CST Ireland's entitlement culture
Ross30
Ross30Ross30Dublin, Ireland2 Threads 635 Posts
I think able bodied people who never worked the Celtic tiger are lazy, I am unapologetic about that. People who have been redundant in the last 30 months and have been working all their adult lives are NOT lazy and would rather be working.
Apr 16, 2010 8:42 PM CST Ireland's entitlement culture
Ross30
Ross30Ross30Dublin, Ireland2 Threads 635 Posts
LusciousLibra: Are you trying to say that when a child turns 5 we should just let them starve? go un-clothed? uneducated? fend for themselves?... 'Rex will find his own dinner tonight'

And where did you get the figure of 22?


Here's the link which states that single parents can still get the one parent family payment up to when their ADULT children reach 22. Thats if they are still in full time education

Apr 16, 2010 8:44 PM CST Ireland's entitlement culture
LusciousLibra
LusciousLibraLusciousLibraTramore, Waterford Ireland28 Threads 2 Polls 1,870 Posts
Ross30: Here's the link which states that single parents can still get the one parent family payment up to when their ADULT children reach 22. Thats if they are still in full time education



Yeah... but why should it be cut off at age 5? you haven't answered that question.
Apr 16, 2010 8:45 PM CST Ireland's entitlement culture
Ross30
Ross30Ross30Dublin, Ireland2 Threads 635 Posts
mcneillm:



BTW, maybe we should give him a break, he's probably a civil servant, and we've seen on the news recently how hard they work ...


I work in the Capitalist private sector not the Communist public sector, my opinions on the state of the public sector are unprintable and can be discussed on another thread, I have nearly as low an opinion on the public sector as I do of the bankers who have destroyed this country.
Apr 16, 2010 8:48 PM CST Ireland's entitlement culture
Ross30
Ross30Ross30Dublin, Ireland2 Threads 635 Posts
LusciousLibra: Yeah... but why should it be cut off at age 5? you haven't answered that question.


To encourage more single parents to go out and work, the government should have reformed the welfare state during the celtic tiger but in their foolish wisdom decided to turn Ireland into a nanny state for which people are less likely to take up low paid or medium paid jobs when the economy has recovered.

By the way I went out with a woman who's a singler parent, my Auntie lived in England, her marriage broke up and she was left to rear 2 kids (7 and 10) but she went out and worked full time with no family support. I'm not anti single parents at all, I've no problem dating single parents as long as they have ambitions to better themselves instead of been permanentky reliant on the state.
Apr 16, 2010 8:50 PM CST Ireland's entitlement culture
LusciousLibra
LusciousLibraLusciousLibraTramore, Waterford Ireland28 Threads 2 Polls 1,870 Posts
Ross30: To encourage more single parents to go out and work, the government should have reformed the welfare state during the celtic tiger but in their foolish wisdom decided to turn Ireland into a nanny state for which people are less likely to take up low paid or medium paid jobs when the economy has recovered.

By the way I went out with a woman who's a singler parent, my Auntie lived in England, her marriage broke up and she was left to rear 2 kids (7 and 10) but she went out and worked full time with no family support. I'm not anti single parents at all, I've no problem dating single parents as long as they have ambitions to better themselves instead of been permanentky reliant on the state.


ok... why 5?
Apr 16, 2010 8:50 PM CST Ireland's entitlement culture
mcneillm
mcneillmmcneillmEnnis, Clare Ireland2 Threads 1,250 Posts
Oh, you came back to defend yourself...

Yes, welfare rates increased by a huge amount during the celtic tiger years compared to inflation, but anyone with a half-reasonable education (myself included, not all welfare people are idiots) knows that inflation figures are adjusted to include such things as consumer electronics, which drop substantially as technology develops, but they don't include house prices, which to a huge degree drive the rate at which the cost of living increases, as people are looking for wage increases to accomidate their mortgages.

The Dole has already been cut for young people.

The OAPs on state pension suffer enough, without you making it worse.

Child benefit pays for everything from childcare and clothes to the expenses of putting a kid through school (I take it you don't have kids).

Not every lone-parent is in a position to work (counting out the fact that there are no jobs at the moment).

Welfare is not increased above what is needed to keep it in line with the cost of surviving on it.
Apr 16, 2010 8:56 PM CST Ireland's entitlement culture
Gaelgoir
GaelgoirGaelgoirWaterford, Ireland20 Posts
Arent you a right hero, it would be more in the rest of your and the other gombeens interests to be worrying about the bankers salaries, NAMA bailing out the rich, politicains and their junkets etc, you can be bloody sure there'l be no bankers cold or hungry this winter in their houses or be on trollies in the hallways of our pathetic hospitals run by our pathetic health system, tax the nuts off the rich and better the country i say, to be taking money or people who need is its a disgrace and completly illogical, and certainly no incentive.

Id advise you to read a few books for yourself.

frustrated
Apr 16, 2010 9:01 PM CST Ireland's entitlement culture
Ross30
Ross30Ross30Dublin, Ireland2 Threads 635 Posts
mcneillm: Oh, you came back to defend yourself...

Yes, welfare rates increased by a huge amount during the celtic tiger years compared to inflation, but anyone with a half-reasonable education (myself included, not all welfare people are idiots) knows that inflation figures are adjusted to include such things as consumer electronics, which drop substantially as technology develops, but they don't include house prices, which to a huge degree drive the rate at which the cost of living increases, as people are looking for wage increases to accomidate their mortgages.

The Dole has already been cut for young people.

The OAPs on state pension suffer enough, without you making it worse.

Child benefit pays for everything from childcare and clothes to the expenses of putting a kid through school (I take it you don't have kids).

Not every lone-parent is in a position to work (counting out the fact that there are no jobs at the moment).

Welfare is not increased above what is needed to keep it in line with the cost of surviving on it.


I'm well able to defend myself, you talk about house prices, substantial house price increases are dtermined by people's willingness to pay over the odds for a house and lets be honest here Irish people tolerate been ripped off, basic prudence should even have applied during the celtic tiger when going for a mortgage ie a minimum 10% deposit, maximum 25 year mortgage, and a couple should only have taken out a mortgage at most 5 times their salaries. But been Irish, people decided to get ripped off.

I don't have kids, I believe in the notion that if couples can't afford to have kids they should wait until the time that they can afford to have kids, thats common sense in my opinion.

Most people on welfare who have lost their jobs in the last couple of years are very intelligent, I wouldn't disagree with you and would rather be working, if the government had keep welfare increases in line with inflation then the basic rate would be about €130-€140 per week, also if the government had stuck to prudence regarding welfare increases then the cost of rent allowances wouldn't have gone through the roof as landlord would have had to reduce their rents.

Senior citizens have it very cushy compared to OAP's in Britain or other western European countries, there hardly going to be destroyed if the OAP was cut to €190 per week.

Finally, you mention single parents who can't work, what about my Auntie with 2 kids in England who had no family support, also my ex girlfriend with 2 young kids they both worked or currently work full time.
Apr 16, 2010 9:02 PM CST Ireland's entitlement culture
LusciousLibra
LusciousLibraLusciousLibraTramore, Waterford Ireland28 Threads 2 Polls 1,870 Posts
Encouraging Single parents to go out to work is admirable. By having more single parents in work will not create more jobs for others. It will shift the welfare cheque to the unemployed and inflate the unemployment figures even higher than they are now... false economy
Apr 16, 2010 9:09 PM CST Ireland's entitlement culture
Ross30
Ross30Ross30Dublin, Ireland2 Threads 635 Posts
Then cut wages throughout the economy, more jobs will be created if companies are able to cut wages, the minimum wage should be cut to €6.50 per hour, it would mean that more young people will be able to get work experience, whats wrong with encouraging single parents to go out and work?
Apr 16, 2010 9:14 PM CST Ireland's entitlement culture
mcneillm
mcneillmmcneillmEnnis, Clare Ireland2 Threads 1,250 Posts
My point about house prices is that the welfare class haven't added to it. Yes, i certainly agree that FAR too much money was being lent out to people, but it was not being lent to welfare people, so none of the money being pumped into the banks is to cover their bad debts.

Yes, often people wait til they can afford kids, but things don't always work out that way.

When I had my kids, I had a job as a software developer. Unfortunately, it turned out to be a dot com company (back then people didn't know the difference).

I'm a lone-parent and a carer. I get no maintenance cuz the welfare system won't go up against my wife - she's on disability cuz she's a chronic alcoholic (a real example of someone screwing the system).

Senior citizens here might have more money, but Ireland is a lot more expensive to live in (thanks to the celtic tiger). Despite the recession there has not been a significant reduction in prices to justify seriously reducing welfare money across the board.



As far as single-parents who can't work, aside from people like me on carers, if an employer has a choice between a recently unemployed person and a lone-parent, who's he going to pick...
Apr 16, 2010 9:15 PM CST Ireland's entitlement culture
LusciousLibra
LusciousLibraLusciousLibraTramore, Waterford Ireland28 Threads 2 Polls 1,870 Posts
Ross30:

What a stupid idea tax the hell out of the rich, who creates employment in this country rich people or poor people? Not a very difficult question. Also, do you think the welathy will stay in Ireland if you start to tax the leather out of them, nope they will emigrate meaning that Ireland's depleted tax base will be further depleted. You also sound like you hate rich people,typical Irish begrudgery.



Ahhhh... now we have the real gripe... you're well off and begrudge the less well off their few bob from the state.

Good luck to you.
Apr 17, 2010 2:15 AM CST Ireland's entitlement culture
scriobhneoir
scriobhneoirscriobhneoirCork, Ireland85 Threads 2 Polls 3,276 Posts
Gaelgoir: If you think the unemployed are just lazy i actually feel sorry for you, how you got this far managing to be so socially ignorant is beyond me...


Doubt ya boy! thumbs up Get up them steps!laugh
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