The Death Book for Veterans ( Archived) (11)

Aug 20, 2009 7:51 PM CST The Death Book for Veterans
BrunoMcMahon
BrunoMcMahonBrunoMcMahonHardwick, Vermont USA20 Threads 3 Polls 733 Posts
"Your Life, Your Choices" presents end-of-life choices in a way aimed at steering users toward predetermined conclusions, much like a political "push poll." For example, a worksheet on page 21 lists various scenarios and asks users to then decide whether their own life would be "not worth living."

The circumstances listed include ones common among the elderly and disabled: living in a nursing home, being in a wheelchair and not being able to "shake the blues." There is a section which provocatively asks, "Have you ever heard anyone say, 'If I'm a vegetable, pull the plug'?" There also are guilt-inducing scenarios such as "I can no longer contribute to my family's well being," "I am a severe financial burden on my family" and that the vet's situation "causes severe emotional burden for my family."

When the government can steer vulnerable individuals to conclude for themselves that life is not worth living, who needs a death panel?



Last I heard the WSJ was considered to be reliable. Any disabled vets care to put in their two cents?
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Aug 20, 2009 8:00 PM CST The Death Book for Veterans
BrunoMcMahon
BrunoMcMahonBrunoMcMahonHardwick, Vermont USA20 Threads 3 Polls 733 Posts
Sorry, forgot the link:

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Aug 20, 2009 8:13 PM CST The Death Book for Veterans
BrunoMcMahon
BrunoMcMahonBrunoMcMahonHardwick, Vermont USA20 Threads 3 Polls 733 Posts
The document in question:

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Aug 21, 2009 10:55 AM CST The Death Book for Veterans
ttom500
ttom500ttom500St. Cloud, Florida USA30 Threads 5 Polls 10,523 Posts
President Obama just attended the Veterans of Foreign War annual convention. There he stated unequavibily that VETs would not lose their health benefits. As the this health care system brought forward.

Those VETs now answering the DEMs end-of-life questionaire....please know that you especially will not have to concern yourselves health care benefits.

:-)
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Aug 21, 2009 11:18 AM CST The Death Book for Veterans
ttom500
ttom500ttom500St. Cloud, Florida USA30 Threads 5 Polls 10,523 Posts
This is the closest thing to a National Health Care system that the US has. The VA. Enjoy the read.

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Aug 21, 2009 4:22 PM CST The Death Book for Veterans
Goddess4u
Goddess4uGoddess4uThe Capital, Greater London, England UK15 Threads 3,131 Posts
You appear to be doing all the talking here. I guess this must be a subject close to you.
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Aug 21, 2009 4:54 PM CST The Death Book for Veterans
BrunoMcMahon
BrunoMcMahonBrunoMcMahonHardwick, Vermont USA20 Threads 3 Polls 733 Posts
Goddess4u: You appear to be doing all the talking here. I guess this must be a subject close to you.


Very much so.

I was raised around a large number of elderly disabled people. I was taught that they were as normal and as important, if not more important than the reat of us. The combat Vets deserved extra respect.

In addition to my wife there are/were many friends and family members with varying mental and physical disabilities. In the twenty or so years I’ve seen more and more of them treated like second-class citizens because of those disabilities.

As a friend pointed out one time if you’re not old or disabled now, odds are you will be one day.

I literally came within inches of becoming a paraplegic in an on the job accident fifteen years ago. If I had, and some SOB had placed something along the lines of “Your life Choices” in front of me I would have knifed them.

I don’t begrudge anyone who has a different idea about how they would deal with their own aging process or disability but I take great exception to anyone that tries to convince them they are better off dead especially when it comes from someone with a financial interest.
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Aug 21, 2009 7:49 PM CST The Death Book for Veterans
ttom500
ttom500ttom500St. Cloud, Florida USA30 Threads 5 Polls 10,523 Posts
My apology Bruno,

I had seen earlier President Obama comments at the Veterans of Foreign War convention and thought that is what this OP was in reference to. I did not click thru to the WSJ site prior to my posts.

Disabled veterans or disable Americans is not a topic for humor.

I will say this. Disability come in many forms. Much is is seen on the outside of a veteran torn by war or a American torn by accident or disease. That they continue to live, work and struggle for respect
of others, is a testament to their character.
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Aug 21, 2009 8:49 PM CST The Death Book for Veterans
BrunoMcMahon
BrunoMcMahonBrunoMcMahonHardwick, Vermont USA20 Threads 3 Polls 733 Posts
ttom500: My apology Bruno,

I had seen earlier President Obama comments at the Veterans of Foreign War convention and thought that is what this OP was in reference to. I did not click thru to the WSJ site prior to my posts.

Disabled veterans or disable Americans is not a topic for humor.

I will say this. Disability come in many forms. Much is is seen on the outside of a veteran torn by war or a American torn by accident or disease. That they continue to live, work and struggle for respect
of others, is a testament to their character.


Thanks Tom I figured there may have been a miscommunication. When over tired I don’t make myself as clear as I think I do.

Very true words on disability and Vets. Korea era man I know had a letter in the paper back after Gulf1 pointing out they had PTSD back then but no one talked about it. Likewise with many disabled in society, especially the less visible disabilities, it is often the case there should more wonder at the effort made and what is achieved.

Some friend in the disability community feel very nervous about the way the wind is blowing now. It’s not about Reps or Dems, It’s about the mindset in Medibiz and the media being transferred to the general public.
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Aug 22, 2009 2:10 PM CST The Death Book for Veterans
RayfromUSA
RayfromUSARayfromUSAvienne, Rhone-Alpes France86 Threads 29 Polls 6,611 Posts
ttom500: President Obama just attended the Veterans of Foreign War annual convention. There he stated unequavibily that VETs would not lose their health benefits. As the this health care system brought forward.


Obama? Obama?
Oh yeah, isn't he they guy who campaigned with promises to get out of Iraq immediately, but then, as soon as he had the Democratic nomination secured, began to waffle on that pledge, and now won't even promise to ever withdraw at all?

Those vets can rest assured that he will keep his promises as long as it remains expedient to do so.
But as the crash continues where do you think expediency is going to lead?
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Aug 22, 2009 2:35 PM CST The Death Book for Veterans
RayfromUSA
RayfromUSARayfromUSAvienne, Rhone-Alpes France86 Threads 29 Polls 6,611 Posts
ttom500: You know Ray, you and I kick shins a lot.

But I have been thinking the same thing. I have been trying to figure why QLARS and end of life conselling sessions are in the National Health Care bills.

You can do a National Health Care program without them. Hospice has offered end of life conselling for years. Why have the QLAR assessment program? That is the Dr role to assess and diagonis patients.

It just add up to one thing.............



Look at the Medical Algorithm program that Bush set up in Texas when he was governor.

It initially sounded like a good idea, a program to spot potential health problems though comprehensive questionaires to be filled out by students and teachers.

But the questionnaires were rigged to elicit responses that could be interpreted as indicating psychological trouble.

And teachers were given instructions that amounted to "quotas" of troubled kids that they should identify in each classroom.

The result was the mass drugging of kids across the state with powerful drugs that cause permanent damage such as Ritalin and SSRI antidepressants.

It's a sad fact that nowadays one must assume the worst when it comes to proposed government health programs.
And even then, the reality is worse than the expectation.
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