Zenyatta Vs. Rachel Alexandra ( Archived) (21)

Oct 17, 2009 1:45 AM CST Zenyatta Vs. Rachel Alexandra
BebeII
BebeIIBebeIIConcordville, Pennsylvania USA23 Threads 1,965 Posts
As of today, Rachel Alexandra's owner has no plans to run her in this month's Breeder's Cup at Santa Anita, but who of the two do you think would win a 1 1/4 mile race?
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Oct 17, 2009 1:58 AM CST Zenyatta Vs. Rachel Alexandra
AsleepInNJ
AsleepInNJAsleepInNJCherry Hill, New Jersey USA53 Threads 3 Polls 2,862 Posts
BebeII: As of today, Rachel Alexandra's owner has no plans to run her in this month's Breeder's Cup at Santa Anita, but who of the two do you think would win a 1 1/4 mile race?


i think Zenyatta would win. she's a come from behind horse and has that will to win. she won the 2008 breeders from the 9 spot.
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Nov 14, 2009 7:15 PM CST Zenyatta Vs. Rachel Alexandra
BebeII
BebeIIBebeIIConcordville, Pennsylvania USA23 Threads 1,965 Posts
AsleepInNJ: i think Zenyatta would win. she's a come from behind horse and has that will to win. she won the 2008 breeders from the 9 spot.
Zenyatta has just won the Breeder's Cup race well in hand-She is now 14 for 14. She is a great mare though I feel she and Rachel need to go head to head before I truly "crown" her. Hopefully, we will see this matchup next year.
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Nov 14, 2009 8:00 PM CST Zenyatta Vs. Rachel Alexandra
reelman90
reelman90reelman90Richmond, Kentucky USA3 Threads 387 Posts
I would really be suprised if she is not "Horse of The Year". She needs to be retired and moved to the breeding shed. The sport needs some endurance added to the gene pool.
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Nov 15, 2009 8:43 PM CST Zenyatta Vs. Rachel Alexandra
BebeII
BebeIIBebeIIConcordville, Pennsylvania USA23 Threads 1,965 Posts
reelman90: I would really be suprised if she is not "Horse of The Year". She needs to be retired and moved to the breeding shed. The sport needs some endurance added to the gene pool.
I think she will be named Horse Of The Year but I still think she should take on Rachel before she retires just to answer the question. RA is a year younger and runs on the lead mostly, which would set up a terrific stretch drive at the end of a race!
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Nov 19, 2009 5:10 PM CST Zenyatta Vs. Rachel Alexandra
Keeneland
KeenelandKeenelandDublin, Ireland19 Threads 3 Polls 1,993 Posts
BebeII: As of today, Rachel Alexandra's owner has no plans to run her in this month's Breeder's Cup at Santa Anita, but who of the two do you think would win a 1 1/4 mile race?



Sea the Stars would beat the two of them hands down. JMO
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Nov 19, 2009 9:33 PM CST Zenyatta Vs. Rachel Alexandra
reelman90
reelman90reelman90Richmond, Kentucky USA3 Threads 387 Posts
Nice name, I live about 5 miles (8 km) from Keeneland. Gorgeous facility, one of the best in the country.

thumbs up
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Nov 19, 2009 9:42 PM CST Zenyatta Vs. Rachel Alexandra
reelman90
reelman90reelman90Richmond, Kentucky USA3 Threads 387 Posts
BebeII: I think she will be named Horse Of The Year but I still think she should take on Rachel before she retires just to answer the question. RA is a year younger and runs on the lead mostly, which would set up a terrific stretch drive at the end of a race!


Not that I wouldn't like to see a match race between these two, I would still retire her, especially if I were the owner.

1) Thoroughbred racing desperately needs infusion of endurance blood.

2) I wouldn't risk the tarnish on the record.

3) I wouldn't risk the chance of severe injury.

4) Worth more than her purse winnings as a broodmare.
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Nov 21, 2009 3:09 PM CST Zenyatta Vs. Rachel Alexandra
Keeneland
KeenelandKeenelandDublin, Ireland19 Threads 3 Polls 1,993 Posts
reelman90: Not that I wouldn't like to see a match race between these two, I would still retire her, especially if I were the owner.

1) Thoroughbred racing desperately needs infusion of endurance blood.

2) I wouldn't risk the tarnish on the record.

3) I wouldn't risk the chance of severe injury.

4) Worth more than her purse winnings as a broodmare.



I agree with you but top class racing fillies and mares don't usually make very good brrod mares. The stats show that.
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Nov 21, 2009 9:45 PM CST Zenyatta Vs. Rachel Alexandra
BebeII
BebeIIBebeIIConcordville, Pennsylvania USA23 Threads 1,965 Posts
Keeneland: I agree with you but top class racing fillies and mares don't usually make very good brrod mares. The stats show that.
That's true, they generally don't make good broodmares as they tend to have trouble conceiving and carrying a foal to term. Still, I would have liked to see them race against one another....Well, we will get to see Rachel race next year anyway, as Kenyatta is due to be retired I hear. Also, Kenyatta is 2 years older than Rachel-I was wrong in my earlier post.
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Nov 21, 2009 9:47 PM CST Zenyatta Vs. Rachel Alexandra
BebeII
BebeIIBebeIIConcordville, Pennsylvania USA23 Threads 1,965 Posts
reelman90: Not that I wouldn't like to see a match race between these two, I would still retire her, especially if I were the owner.

1) Thoroughbred racing desperately needs infusion of endurance blood.

2) I wouldn't risk the tarnish on the record.

3) I wouldn't risk the chance of severe injury.

4) Worth more than her purse winnings as a broodmare.
I think American racing has been fixated on speed for too long, as in yesteryear, the best horses were aften raced up to two miles. What they need more of IMO, is less fragile horses-all of these breakdowns (which may be due to speed) are not good. Good post!
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Nov 22, 2009 2:38 AM CST Zenyatta Vs. Rachel Alexandra
reelman90
reelman90reelman90Richmond, Kentucky USA3 Threads 387 Posts
BebeII: I think American racing has been fixated on speed for too long, as in yesteryear, the best horses were aften raced up to two miles. What they need more of IMO, is less fragile horses-all of these breakdowns (which may be due to speed) are not good. Good post!



Breakdowns are always going to exist to some extent, but some of these trainers that run their horses on less than 10 days rest are only in racing for the money and glory. They are a detriment to the sport.

Personally, I don't care a whole lot for the poly tracks and I admit they do help to a certain extent. I would be more open to poly tracks if all the tracks that use them would collectively decide to use only one style of poly track. That way, consistent statistics would develop over time and bettors could have some reliable statistics.

Back to the main point. This obsession with speed racing will ruin the industry if it continues on the same path and breakdowns will continue wether there are poly tracks or not. I say leave the short distance speed racing to the quarterhorses. I personally like the classic distances in the weeds.
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Nov 23, 2009 9:52 PM CST Zenyatta Vs. Rachel Alexandra
BebeII
BebeIIBebeIIConcordville, Pennsylvania USA23 Threads 1,965 Posts
reelman90: Breakdowns are always going to exist to some extent, but some of these trainers that run their horses on less than 10 days rest are only in racing for the money and glory. They are a detriment to the sport.

Personally, I don't care a whole lot for the poly tracks and I admit they do help to a certain extent. I would be more open to poly tracks if all the tracks that use them would collectively decide to use only one style of poly track. That way, consistent statistics would develop over time and bettors could have some reliable statistics.

Back to the main point. This obsession with speed racing will ruin the industry if it continues on the same path and breakdowns will continue wether there are poly tracks or not. I say leave the short distance speed racing to the quarterhorses. I personally like the classic distances in the weeds.
They push the horses too fast, too young. 22 1/2 as 2 yo's! I don't know about the days of rest theory though. Kenyatta is a 5 yo and has only raced 14 times.
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Nov 24, 2009 2:46 AM CST Zenyatta Vs. Rachel Alexandra
reelman90
reelman90reelman90Richmond, Kentucky USA3 Threads 387 Posts
BebeII: They push the horses too fast, too young. 22 1/2 as 2 yo's! I don't know about the days of rest theory though. Kenyatta is a 5 yo and has only raced 14 times.


Most of your better horses do get plenty of rest because they are usually trained by the better trainers. The ones that get very short rest periods usually race at the lower level tracks such as Mountaineer (WV), River Downs (OH), Beulah (OH), and so on and so on. These are what I refer to as "nag" tracks and where real bettors tread lightly. Their biggest purse of the day might be 25K and their average race purse is around 2K.

One of the worst trainers for running horses on too little rest is from your neck of the woods. His name is Scott Lake.
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Nov 24, 2009 5:04 PM CST Zenyatta Vs. Rachel Alexandra
BebeII
BebeIIBebeIIConcordville, Pennsylvania USA23 Threads 1,965 Posts
reelman90: Most of your better horses do get plenty of rest because they are usually trained by the better trainers. The ones that get very short rest periods usually race at the lower level tracks such as Mountaineer (WV), River Downs (OH), Beulah (OH), and so on and so on. These are what I refer to as "nag" tracks and where real bettors tread lightly. Their biggest purse of the day might be 25K and their average race purse is around 2K.

One of the worst trainers for running horses on too little rest is from your neck of the woods. His name is Scott Lake.
I'll be advised! Yes, the lower claimers can be hard pressed, but look back at some of the great horses from yesteryear and how many times they ran-makes you wonder how horses got so wimpy!
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Nov 25, 2009 1:43 AM CST Zenyatta Vs. Rachel Alexandra
reelman90
reelman90reelman90Richmond, Kentucky USA3 Threads 387 Posts
BebeII: I'll be advised! Yes, the lower claimers can be hard pressed, but look back at some of the great horses from yesteryear and how many times they ran-makes you wonder how horses got so wimpy!


I've seen many horses blossom into monsters after being put in the right hands. One that comes to mind is Funny Cide. The group of friends that purchased him payed somewhere in the 30-40K range for him. He was put in the right hands and turned into a great runner and Derby winner. Now that is a great story.

cheers
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Nov 25, 2009 7:38 AM CST Zenyatta Vs. Rachel Alexandra
BebeII
BebeIIBebeIIConcordville, Pennsylvania USA23 Threads 1,965 Posts
reelman90: I've seen many horses blossom into monsters after being put in the right hands. One that comes to mind is Funny Cide. The group of friends that purchased him payed somewhere in the 30-40K range for him. He was put in the right hands and turned into a great runner and Derby winner. Now that is a great story.
That was a great story-those guys had the time of their lives with Funnycide. Have you ever heard of Pan Zarita?
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Nov 29, 2009 12:51 AM CST Zenyatta Vs. Rachel Alexandra
reelman90
reelman90reelman90Richmond, Kentucky USA3 Threads 387 Posts
BebeII: That was a great story-those guys had the time of their lives with Funnycide. Have you ever heard of Pan Zarita?


Honestly, no. Tell me more.
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Nov 30, 2009 3:51 AM CST Zenyatta Vs. Rachel Alexandra
BebeII
BebeIIBebeIIConcordville, Pennsylvania USA23 Threads 1,965 Posts
reelman90: Honestly, no. Tell me more.
Pan Zarita was bred in Sweetwater Tx. She raced 150 times, placing 1st 76 times, with 31 2nd place finishes and 21 3rd's. Her sire was a thoroughbred, Abe Frank, her dam a quarter horse, Caddie Griffith. Her most famous race was aginst Joe Blair in 1915. She won the 5/8ths mile in world record time of 1:57 1/5. Here are some of her other times.

220 yards-10 1/5
1/4 mile -21 3/5
3/8 mile -33 2/5
1/2 mile -44 4/5

Foaled in 1910, she raced from 1912 to 1917. She died suddenly that year-I believe from a pnuemonic cause and was buried in the center of the infield of New Orleans Race Track. Some say that she was probably the fastest mare up to 5/8ths of a mile who ever lived. She was a sorrel in color although the only picture I have is in B&W, you may be able to google a picture of her-she had an awesome shoulder!
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Jan 12, 2010 4:14 PM CST Zenyatta Vs. Rachel Alexandra
Keeneland
KeenelandKeenelandDublin, Ireland19 Threads 3 Polls 1,993 Posts
Just thought I would post the post the World Thoroughbred Rankings as were released today. I am afraid both Zenyatta and Rachel Alexandra are not as high as some people in the US might have thought. laugh 3 Irish horses rated above them. We are not bad at the Horse Racing Game for a country of 4 million...are we?

TOP WORLD THOROUGHBRED HORSES OVERALL FOR 2009

Rank Horse Rating Trained
1 Sea The Stars 136 IRE
2 Goldikova 130 FR
3 Rip Van Winkle 129 IRE
4 Fame And Glory 128 IRE
4 Zenyatta 128 USA
6 Rachel Alexandra 127 USA
7 Cavalryman 125 FR
7 Conduit 125 GB
7 Gio Ponti 125 USA
7 Gladiatorus 125 UAE
7 Youmzain 125 GB

yay yay yay yay yay
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