In your response, then we keep the tab as to who did worse and therefore justified an endless killing? You are not making sense Tree. Today, there is no religion that proclaim killing because of not believing..Yay.
I can understand your awakening Tree and I do have an idea how your policy works. But it is not like we expect people to be all good and do the job that makes them contribute to society. The communist manifesto that was designed by Karl Marx and supported by Engel, are all well and good. Buet to practice, what did it serve Stalin? Now it can be achieved if the given expectancy of the whole society is working for the good of all. Not like some are totally dependent and would profer a dole out. The trend of which the new democracy under liberalism is so profoundly exercised. Look at California for right now and the rest of the world, I feel the government wants us to feel obligated to be served by the few so that we don't complain. We don't raise our voice and in the end we are like sombies believing them to be doing great. The dumber and stupider we are, the freer they are to manipulate us. Now your model works I am sure, if evil is completely eliminated. I still want you to lay out the system and procedure as to how we can pick it up from here. Considering the many evils in our society, how would you take that into account?
The above post is for everyone to understand that it represents me, a person, an individual who's safety and peace is jeopardize by the terrorists and the supporters of this caliphating movement. Anybody who thinks otherwise is again, not aware of the danger that is to come. This is for me, for my children, their children's children and the whole of humanity.
I don't want to spread hate, I want love and peace to reign, I am not the expert on knowing how it ends, but I tell you this, if we unite and stand strong against these killers, we can win.
I want to see Arab-Muslims waving the AMERICAN flag in the streets. I want to hear you chanting 'Allah Bless America'. I want to see young Arab/Muslim men enlisting in the military. I want to see a commitment of money, time and emotion to the victims of this butchering and to this nation as a whole.
The FBI has a list of over 400 people they want to talk to regarding the WTC attack. Many of these people live and socialize right now in Muslim communities. You know them. You know where they are. Hand them over to us, NOW! But I have seen little even approaching this sort of action. Instead I have seen an already closed and secretive community close even tighter. You have disappeared from the streets. You have posted armed security guards at your facilities. You have threatened lawsuits. You have screamed for protection from reprisals.
The very few Arab/Muslim representatives that HAVE appeared in the media were defensive and equivocating. They seemed more concerned with making sure that the United States proves who was responsible before taking action. They seemed more concerned with protecting their fellow Muslims from violence directed towards them in the United States and abroad than they did with supporting our country and denouncing 'leaders' like Khadafi, Hussein, Farrakhan, and Arafat.
IF the true teachings of Islam proclaim tolerance and peace and love for all people, then I want chapter and verse from the Koran and statements from popular Muslim leaders to back it up. What good is it if the teachings in the Koran are good, pure, and true, when your 'leaders' ARE teaching fanatical interpretations, terrorism, and intolerance? It matters little how good Islam SHOULD BE if huge numbers of the world's Muslims interpret the teachings of Mohammed incorrectly and adhere to a degenerative form of the religion. A form that has been demonstrated to us over and over again. A form whose structure is built upon a foundation of violence, death, and suicide. A form whose members are recruited from the prisons around the world. A form whose members (some as young as five years old) are seen day after day, week in and week out, year after year, marching in the streets around the world, burning effigies of our presidents, burning the American flag, shooting weapons into the air. A form whose members convert from a peaceful religion, only to take up arms against the great United States of America, the country of their birth. A form whose rules are so twisted, that their traveling members refuse to show their faces at airport security checkpoints, in the name of Islam.
We will NEVER allow the attacks of September 11, or any others for that matter, to take away that which is so precious to us -- our rights under the greatest constitution in the world. I want to know where every Arab Muslim in this country stands and I think it is my right and the right of every true citizen of this country to DEMAND it. A right paid for by the blood of thousands of my brothers and sisters who died protecting the very constitution that is protecting you and your family.
I am pleading with you to let me know. I want you here as my brother, my neighbor, my friend, as a fellow American...... But there can be no grey areas or ambivalence regarding your allegiance, and it is up to YOU, to show ME, where YOU stand. Until then, "YOU WORRY ME!"
I've been trying to say this since 911, but you worry me. I wish you didn't. I wish when I walked down the streets of this country that I love, that your color and culture still blended with the beautiful human landscape we enjoy in this country. But you don't blend in anymore. I notice you, and it worries me.
I notice you because I can't help it anymore. People from your homelands, professing to be Muslims, have been attacking and killing my fellow citizens and our friends for more than 20 years now. I don't fully understand their grievances and hate, but I know that nothing can justify the inhumanity of their attacks.
On September 11, ARAB-MUSLIMS hijacked four jetliners in my country. They cut the throats of women in front of children and brutally stabbed to death others. They took control of those planes and crashed them into buildings, killing thousands of proud fathers, loving sons, wise grandparents, elegant daughters, best friends, favorite coaches, fearless public servants, and children's mothers.
The Palestinians celebrated, the Iraqis were overjoyed as was most of the Arab world. So, I notice you now. I don't want to be worried. I don't want to be consumed by the same rage, hate and prejudice that has destroyed the soul of these terrorists. But I need your help. As a rational American, trying to protect my country and family in an irrational and unsafe world, I must know how to tell the difference between you, and the Arab/Muslim terrorist.
How do I differentiate between the true Arab/Muslim Americans and the Arab/Muslim terrorists in our communities who are attending our schools, enjoying our parks, and living in OUR communities under the protection of OUR constitution, while they plot the next attack that will slaughter MORE of the same good neighbors and children?
The events of September 11 changed the answer.. It is not MY responsibility to determine which of you embraces our great country, with ALL of its religions, with ALL of its different citizens, with all of its faults. It is time for every Arab/Muslim in this country to determine it for me.
I want to know, I DEMAND to know and I have a right to know, whether or not you love America ..... Do you pledge allegiance to its flag? Do you proudly display it in front of your house, or on your car? Do you pray in your many daily prayers that Allah will bless this nation; that He will protect it and let it prosper? Or do you pray that Allah will destroy it in one of your Jihads? Are you thankful for the freedom that this nation affords? A freedom that was paid for by the blood of hundreds of thousands of patriots who gave their lives for this country? Are you willing to preserve this freedom by also paying the ultimate sacrifice? Do you love America?? If this is your commitment, then I need YOU to start letting ME know about it
Your Muslim leaders in this nation should be flooding the media at this time with hard facts on your faith, and what hard actions YOU are taking as a community and as a religion to protect the United States of America. Please, no more benign overtures of regret for the death of the innocent, because I worry about who you regard as innocent.... No more benign overtures of condemnation for the unprovoked attacks, because I worry about what is unprovoked to you. I am not interested in any more sympathy; I am interested only in action. What will you do for America - our great country - at this time of crisis, at this time of war?
I want to see Arab-Muslims waving the AMERICAN flag in the streets. I want to hear you chanting 'Allah Bless America'. I want to see young Arab/Muslim men enlisting in the military. I want to see a commitment of money, time and emotion to the victims of this butchering and to this nation as a whole.
I am as utterly disturbed as you are Krema. But we keep on fighting. We keep on educating the world. This is not about being haters, this is about having to protect humanity from the hands of these terrorists. Would we be concerned if they don't commit themselves on killing us? Would we be here discussing about it if it is not as individual as it gets?
But I can't understand why we don't unite to prevent more of these calamities. How stupid am I, if I would just shrug my shoulder and say, ah I will be next? Stupid.
Bab I hope you are not labeling me as one. I can tell you this. I love life. I support peace. I am generous and humble. Just don't kill me. When you say that there are haters here, isn't that justified? when it comes down to survival? Or you want the whole 5 billion people be a perpetual target of being killed so that islam is the only left standing religion on this world. We just smile, and say we love them, and so go ahead and kill us? Where does hate fit here? It is way past hate concerns if you ask me. It is a matter of survival. Now you tell me, I am a hater. You bet I am. I hate the fact that humanity is declared as enemy of these terrorists. I hate the fact that people are killed with no fault of their own, but belonging to a different religion. Or maybe you think you are safe? And if not, you just smile and say, okay..I am waiting for my turn to be the victim.
Well as much as I hate to say this, you are targeting us that are concerned on finding solutions to end this imbroglio Bab.
First of all this is not only individual concerns but it involves the whole of humanity. Think of it. If these calipathing move is not going to stop, where will it end? Eventually all non islam will prevail and here you are telling me that it is not as individual as it seems? Why do the terrorists first tell the world who is their target? Then you tell me it is not as individual and personal. If your friend and family were the victims, that is the only time you make yourself concerned?
I am a retired University professor and the only time I use that word is when I see that they don't acknowledge this as a war against humanity. Which by the way, the very word of the most powerful man in the world on his speech in Turkey.
Now granting without admitting that this doesn't seem personal and individual to you, does that make it right?
Question for you Bab: Is it true that these terrorists, or radical islam which comprise about 5 to 7 percent of the muslim's 1.4 billion not enough to annihilate the world? And when your answer is yes, would we just wait? Or you say, no because it is not your individual anyways?
I can't see how contradicting you are. Stand from my point of view, will you? I am threatened, I am not muslim. I am committed to protect humanity, would you just expect me to wait for my turn? If we don't fight them, who will?
Tree, I have always thought that for us to advance in life, we have to use out utmost potential, and as such it is proven by Ayn Rand's novel "Atlas shrugged" and the philosophy of Kierkgaard. These two pillars of unsocialistic principles do show that there is nothing wrong in being able to gain out of our individual strength. In your line of thinking, how will it ensure that the dole takers would do anything but dependent on the very society they loath? It is very much happening here with us, in our realms, look at the State of California and the many states where welfare recipients do almost over run the hard working individuals. If we do give our resources evenly distributed, at what point will it begin and where will it end?
This would definitely prohibit amassing of great wealth like that of Gates, Bloomberg, etc.etc. You are involved in hedge funds, and certainly very well informed in the mechanics of money making...what and how would that affect you in a society that you want to serve?
Ideally Tree, this should be the case. But I can't imagine it can be real. One's ability to produce is never the same as the other. We are all created differently and as long as we don't enrich ourselves at the expense of the others, it should be alright. But if we conceive equality as a means of having everyone at peace, imagine the proportion of jobs we have to allocate from the 80 percent under poverty? How do we do that?
Tom, I can't imagine that all these terrorism attacks are for Israel only. Rather it is a war against humanity. If we do acknowledge caliphating as the core of their motives, then it is fair for us to know that they won't stop killing until all non islam are dead. Well, there is about 5 billion to go and perhaps you and I will be dead by then naturally. Meantime, it is not fair that they think the world belongs to them only, is it?
I am sorry to inform you Lacrimosa, but I haven't seen any comment of Kaet that blanket all muslims to be bad. Neither have I. I have read how terrible for the terrorist to be claiming in the name of your religion but not you muslims, as a whole. It is rather inane to do that because there are 1.4 billion of you, is it not? You can't all be bad or this world is already finished. But what I believe she is emphasizing are the terrorst created and claimed in the name of your religion by 3 to 7 percent as Dr. Gabriel has documented.
Now what is needed is for you peaceful muslim to stand up and abhor these acts. However there are so many videos of the general population of muslim to be celebrating whenever an attack is done. Can you explain that?
Tree thanks for your explanation. We already know the cycle of life is never ending, and so is everything we do. We already know that human by nature is a survivor animal. Threat in any shape or form dictates the maneuvering of fighting back. Where it ends, we don't know.
While we are at it, please google Sept. 11, 1683 and tell me, where did it begin?
Fast forward times and let us look at the recent activities.
In 1989 Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait, granting there is a lot of investment on the oil industry by the west to this area, it is natural for them to go and oust SH.
WE did, it is not like we just invaded for no reason. The problem is, when Obama came into power he created the vacuum in Iraq which gave birth to the strength of ISIS which is fighting back as a revenge for that war.
D there is a lot of discussion about that now. Bottom line, they will be helped, but not spread all over the world.
Amen to that, not making mistake as Merkel did. Now the scrutiny of rigorous inspection is crucial for determining they are truly refugees and not migrants like you guys had.
I can't believe how this thread is being used to bullying and insulting, however, treetop, you might be right in thinking the way you think about how the 9/11, it is already established by the majority of the world that it is a work of the terrorists and took claim for it, as all the rest of their terrors.
Now granting that it is not true as you claim, (I don't agree with you), now what about the many more that were claimed as terrorists havoc against humanity? What do you say about those?
No one would want to be in their shoes Hoolet, but would you suggest that we should spread them all over the world? Or should we contain them in one place like Turkey and Jordan and then finish the war and let them go back to their country and rebuild?
You are right on not bringing back the mistakes of the past Obs, after all we never learn anyways. Isn't a fact that history repeats itself? However the connection of our current situation to the past is very strong. Recycled actions picked up from the past mistakes.
Now let us move on and tell me should the world spread out these refugees? Or should we contain them in one place and then finish this damn war and put them back to their country?
yap. When I was in France last month, it is amazing how different the vehicles are. No big SUV, no big trucks...and let me tell you, I have seen more M6, X5s, Ferraris, and exotic cars than there. I lived there in the early 80 and visit all the time, so it is not like I am naive.
On another note, if Obama is a muslim and acts like this, is it possible for all the muslims to genuinely meet our cultures halfway and compromise? Don't condemn us for eating pork. Don't sneer at as for wearing bikini, etc. etc..Maybe, that is the reason why in the context of the fanatics, they want to caliphate the whole world, so they are the only ones to prevail?
I don't know but that is why I am trying to understand.
It is not a matter of credibility Bab, rather it is my personal opinion that any country talks about religion. Now you may not be one of them, but that doesn't mean to say that the whole country doesn't talk about religion?
Of course your position on knowing about political, socio economic and everything is far more credible for one to have live and in a country for thirty years, but that is not the point. The point is not to kill all muslims or even accuse them (like I said, one of my friend is a very peaceful muslim) but to perhaps convince them to rally with us, the peaceful people with or without religion to condemn these activities.
Perhaps, I will upload the letter of the pilot to a doctor who is a muslim and you will feel the sentiment I am trying to make you feel.
This is not islamophobic as it is perceived generally, rather, to make everyone aware of what it is that needed to be changed and or compromised in such a very diversified world.
Can I ask you a question? Can you say that the whole population of muslims that you know, have they assimilated at all with the values of the west?
Yubba thank you for your contribution. As a matter of fact, I uploaded a lot of documents that single out all the terrorist activities who are mostly muslims and yes there are good reasons but honestly, the real refugees, we have to assist them, however, for our safety and protection, we have to better keep them in Turkey and Jordan. Or build a camp in North Africa but make sure their lives are better than what they are escaping from.
Minnie, I don't know why it wasn't up for discussion then, but for today, thank goodness we are allowed to do. Now just because we have the right and ability to talk about, doesn't mean our ideas will prevail. In a free world, specially in my country, our voices do count.
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World War 3
In your response, then we keep the tab as to who did worse and therefore justified an endless killing? You are not making sense Tree. Today, there is no religion that proclaim killing because of not believing..Yay.