The Dark Ages are still with us (35)
GingerBe: Crossed wires here someplace. I was responding to this: "Devils are spawned from religion.... the foil to any God." Your quote!
And I was disagreeing with it. Devils or spirits, or even bad energy, depending on what one calls them, (for I surmise they are the same), were being cast out before religion was my point.
And I was disagreeing with it. Devils or spirits, or even bad energy, depending on what one calls them, (for I surmise they are the same), were being cast out before religion was my point.
Indeed and you are totally correct, its simply that religion cashed in on evil as one of its main tools to frighten people into submission. The axis of Christian belief is on this very issue and just in the same way they usurped the pagan sacred days, they made the problem of evil their own too but the difference between the two is that religion predicated evil on disagreeing with their god which is precisely where the devil comes into the myth....
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Godsgift: I'm just saddened that CNN can't spell the word 'Practise,' when it's to be used as a verb! Or have I missed the point?
Seemingly in American English 'Practice' is the spelling of both noun and verb.
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trish123: Indeed and you are totally correct, its simply that religion cashed in on evil as one of its main tools to frighten people into submission. The axis of Christian belief is on this very issue and just in the same way they usurped the pagan sacred days, they made the problem of evil their own too but the difference between the two is that religion predicated evil on disagreeing with their god which is precisely where the devil comes into the myth....
OK agreed!
None of these practices will stop though until a religion is free from persecution, because only then will people stop living in fear and have the presence of mind to think for themselves.
It is not just as easy as telling people that they are wrong.
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GingerBe: OK agreed!
None of these practices will stop though until a religion is free from persecution, because only then will people stop living in fear and have the presence of mind to think for themselves.
It is not just as easy as telling people that they are wrong.
None of these practices will stop though until a religion is free from persecution, because only then will people stop living in fear and have the presence of mind to think for themselves.
It is not just as easy as telling people that they are wrong.
Thats pretty impossible I think, religion and critical thinking make for strange bedfellows
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trish123: Thats pretty impossible I think, religion and critical thinking make for strange bedfellows
Unlikely maybe, but certainly not impossible.........
Looking at the history of religions shows that persecution goes hand in hand with recruitment and renewed fervour in religious practices........Like anything, if you threaten to take it away, or run it down, (it appears to have more value), so people want it more.
I'm a great believer in people having a choice.....
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elsson: Seemingly in American English 'Practice' is the spelling of both noun and verb.
Ah, dark forces are indeed with us! Next they'll be spelling defence with an 'S.'
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GingerBe: Unlikely maybe, but certainly not impossible.........
Looking at the history of religions shows that persecution goes hand in hand with recruitment and renewed fervour in religious practices........Like anything, if you threaten to take it away, or run it down, (it appears to have more value), so people want it more.I'm a great believer in people having a choice.....
Looking at the history of religions shows that persecution goes hand in hand with recruitment and renewed fervour in religious practices........Like anything, if you threaten to take it away, or run it down, (it appears to have more value), so people want it more.I'm a great believer in people having a choice.....
Yep, and for me, the choice to opt out completely without being demonised is just as important - all religions demonise us atheists simply because it doesnt compute with the beguiled that we dont cower in fear - my thought is that religion causes cognitive dissonance and the only solution is education
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BoyracerBMW: A man has been sentenced to death in a court of law for sorcery. He was predicting the future with a crystal ball or something. I thought we had left this sort of voodoo stuff behind us with the Spanish Inquisition. Really....
Terry Nichols wasn't executed for the Oklahoma City bombing because he started spewing religious bunk at his sentencing hearing - the religion of those who were deciding his fate.
Each of Nicols and the Lebanese man faced - or didn't face - execution not because of their religion, but because those considering whether to kill them have religion.
If you agree with those in power, you get to live. If you disagree, you'll be killed. That's a great message that's being sent.
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trish123: Yep, and for me, the choice to opt out completely without being demonised is just as important - all religions demonise us atheists simply because it doesnt compute with the beguiled that we dont cower in fear - my thought is that religion causes cognitive dissonance and the only solution is education
I'd agree with that. Unfortunately Trish, not all athiests are as well read as you.
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GingerBe: I'd agree with that. Unfortunately Trish, not all athiests are as well read as you.
Thats a common misconception Ginger, try reading some of the threads on whywontgodhealamputees or the Ebon Musings site - any of the atheist sites, you will see quite differently - in fact, Im in awe myself of some of the thinking I see - I didnt come to my conclusions alone, as you say, Im a reader and a lot of my search for material has been via other none believers who pale my efforts into insignificance........
hahaha, so much for me getting busy hey
at least I got my hair washed so that wont be a last minute rush again 
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It is persecution, but then again it promotes an "us and them" psyche which is a fundamental principle of a team or community.
Today the trend is to individualism in the west and as you say thinking for yourself, but then the more individual and complicated we become, the more divided, and our society follows suit.
I'd stop to consider why our own societies lack community spirit, and why common sense is distinctly uncommon today, before being so sure in your authority in telling people that they are wrong to think in the way in which they do.
Could it not be that the sole reason the west does not crumble and destroy itself is down to its consumer ethics? Thus in poorer nations, that can ill-afford consumerism, could it not be their total faith(with all of its absurdities) which prevents them from falling apart?
Today the trend is to individualism in the west and as you say thinking for yourself, but then the more individual and complicated we become, the more divided, and our society follows suit.
I'd stop to consider why our own societies lack community spirit, and why common sense is distinctly uncommon today, before being so sure in your authority in telling people that they are wrong to think in the way in which they do.
Could it not be that the sole reason the west does not crumble and destroy itself is down to its consumer ethics? Thus in poorer nations, that can ill-afford consumerism, could it not be their total faith(with all of its absurdities) which prevents them from falling apart?
GingerBe: OK agreed!
None of these practices will stop though until a religion is free from persecution, because only then will people stop living in fear and have the presence of mind to think for themselves.
It is not just as easy as telling people that they are wrong.
None of these practices will stop though until a religion is free from persecution, because only then will people stop living in fear and have the presence of mind to think for themselves.
It is not just as easy as telling people that they are wrong.
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trish123: Thats a common misconception Ginger, try reading some of the threads on whywontgodhealamputees or the Ebon Musings site - any of the atheist sites, you will see quite differently - in fact, Im in awe myself of some of the thinking I see - I didnt come to my conclusions alone, as you say, Im a reader and a lot of my search for material has been via other none believers who pale my efforts into insignificance........
hahaha, so much for me getting busy hey at least I got my hair washed so that wont be a last minute rush again
hahaha, so much for me getting busy hey at least I got my hair washed so that wont be a last minute rush again
Sorry! Hope I didn't keep you back too much.
I do know of some very intelligent and well read people who are athiests. You are right and I have visited many sites and read many books. There are still those who aren't quite there yet though, and those who don't question anything, and not all of them are as dedicated as you are to setting things right.
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TrueBlue1986: It is persecution, but then again it promotes an "us and them" psyche which is a fundamental principle of a team or community.
Today the trend is to individualism in the west and as you say thinking for yourself, but then the more individual and complicated we become, the more divided, and our society follows suit.
I'd stop to consider why our own societies lack community spirit, and why common sense is distinctly uncommon today, before being so sure in your authority in telling people that they are wrong to think in the way in which they do.
Could it not be that the sole reason the west does not crumble and destroy itself is down to its consumer ethics? Thus in poorer nations, that can ill-afford consumerism, could it not be their total faith(with all of its absurdities) which prevents them from falling apart?
Today the trend is to individualism in the west and as you say thinking for yourself, but then the more individual and complicated we become, the more divided, and our society follows suit.
I'd stop to consider why our own societies lack community spirit, and why common sense is distinctly uncommon today, before being so sure in your authority in telling people that they are wrong to think in the way in which they do.
Could it not be that the sole reason the west does not crumble and destroy itself is down to its consumer ethics? Thus in poorer nations, that can ill-afford consumerism, could it not be their total faith(with all of its absurdities) which prevents them from falling apart?
Good points! Great questions! I just don't see community life falling apart as a bad thing like some do. Values are not dependant on morals taught through religion, nor are they dependant on consumerism, or whether people are part of a group who chastises them.
A good grounding in a broad education is key I believe.
Values are inherent, and from good education and information and experiences, people can, and usually do, decide their own preferences in what they stand for, or what their values are.
Even people of religion make up their own minds as to what, within their religions, they will take on, and what they choose to ignore, based on their own personal experiences, coupled with what they have learned in other ways. I have never met anyone without sin, (according to their religion), yet.....have you?
Very difficult to talk about peoples en-masse, when those groups are made up of individuals, none of whom think exactly alike.
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Godsgift: Ah, dark forces are indeed with us! Next they'll be spelling defence with an 'S.'
No, fence is a noun, so "You put defence around defield".
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Now you are speaking of primitive people without religion...... not quite the same thing !
Crossed wires here someplace. I was responding to this: "Devils are spawned from religion.... the foil to any God." Your quote!
And I was disagreeing with it. Devils or spirits, or even bad energy, depending on what one calls them, (for I surmise they are the same), were being cast out before religion was my point.