Corporate Welfare is Wrong. (86)
gardenhackle: The phrase itself. It's wrong. There is no such thing as "corporate welfare".
We know what welfare is. You're dead broke. You live in a trailer. Your car doesn't run. You don't work. You've got no prospects. You produce nothing. The government gives you food to eat and some spending money because we don't want you to starve to death.
How in the heck does that apply to "corporations", though? Corporations work. Corporations pay taxes. Corporations hire people. Corporations supply products to the USA. Corporations the heart and soul of the US economy.
They don't go having kids in order to get more welfare. They don't get governmen checks sent to them because they want to sit in front of a TV all day. They pay dues and fines and taxes and fees out the wazoo.....
What exactly is the "welfare" they get? If you're talking about tax breaks, then don't even bother responding to this thread because tax breaks aren't welfare. Tax breaks simply mean that the tax gouging on the corporations won't be as deep, painful or debilitating.
So what's with the "welfare". Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?
We know what welfare is. You're dead broke. You live in a trailer. Your car doesn't run. You don't work. You've got no prospects. You produce nothing. The government gives you food to eat and some spending money because we don't want you to starve to death.
How in the heck does that apply to "corporations", though? Corporations work. Corporations pay taxes. Corporations hire people. Corporations supply products to the USA. Corporations the heart and soul of the US economy.
They don't go having kids in order to get more welfare. They don't get governmen checks sent to them because they want to sit in front of a TV all day. They pay dues and fines and taxes and fees out the wazoo.....
What exactly is the "welfare" they get? If you're talking about tax breaks, then don't even bother responding to this thread because tax breaks aren't welfare. Tax breaks simply mean that the tax gouging on the corporations won't be as deep, painful or debilitating.
So what's with the "welfare". Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?
It's the perfect solution after the fall of the Berlin Wall and the Soviet Block in the East combined with the collapse of the capitalist banking system in the West:
It's socialism for capitalists! Brilliant! Someone should get the Nobel Prize....and it still makes the poor poorer and the rich richer!
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Godsgift: It's the perfect solution after the fall of the Berlin Wall and the Soviet Block in the East combined with the collapse of the capitalist banking system in the West:
It's socialism for capitalists! Brilliant! Someone should get the Nobel Prize....and it still makes the poor poorer and the rich richer!
Capitalism he calls it!It's socialism for capitalists! Brilliant! Someone should get the Nobel Prize....and it still makes the poor poorer and the rich richer!
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Conrad73: Capitalism he calls it!
It sounded like the rantings of someone that's been off their meds to me. Did you find any of that intelligible?
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Fascism perhaps ?
Mussolinni refered to the "Corporate State"
Are we so far removed from corporate rule that "fascism" might actually cease to be a dirty word after these many years...?
No..?
What the hell,we'll just call it something else then.
Some of the old distinctions are getting blurry.
How about: SocioIndustrialComplex ?
Or:CommerceAndCommunalityConsortium ?
We could hold a naming contest.
Winner gets free,inflation adjusted, Tax Credits for Life,plus Stock Options.
Mussolinni refered to the "Corporate State"
Are we so far removed from corporate rule that "fascism" might actually cease to be a dirty word after these many years...?
No..?
What the hell,we'll just call it something else then.
Some of the old distinctions are getting blurry.
How about: SocioIndustrialComplex ?
Or:CommerceAndCommunalityConsortium ?
We could hold a naming contest.
Winner gets free,inflation adjusted, Tax Credits for Life,plus Stock Options.
------ This thread is Archived ------
gardenhackle: The phrase itself. It's wrong. There is no such thing as "corporate welfare".
We know what welfare is. You're dead broke. You live in a trailer. Your car doesn't run. You don't work. You've got no prospects. You produce nothing. The government gives you food to eat and some spending money because we don't want you to starve to death.
How in the heck does that apply to "corporations", though? Corporations work. Corporations pay taxes. Corporations hire people. Corporations supply products to the USA. Corporations the heart and soul of the US economy.
They don't go having kids in order to get more welfare. They don't get governmen checks sent to them because they want to sit in front of a TV all day. They pay dues and fines and taxes and fees out the wazoo.....
What exactly is the "welfare" they get? If you're talking about tax breaks, then don't even bother responding to this thread because tax breaks aren't welfare. Tax breaks simply mean that the tax gouging on the corporations won't be as deep, painful or debilitating.
So what's with the "welfare". Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?
We know what welfare is. You're dead broke. You live in a trailer. Your car doesn't run. You don't work. You've got no prospects. You produce nothing. The government gives you food to eat and some spending money because we don't want you to starve to death.
How in the heck does that apply to "corporations", though? Corporations work. Corporations pay taxes. Corporations hire people. Corporations supply products to the USA. Corporations the heart and soul of the US economy.
They don't go having kids in order to get more welfare. They don't get governmen checks sent to them because they want to sit in front of a TV all day. They pay dues and fines and taxes and fees out the wazoo.....
What exactly is the "welfare" they get? If you're talking about tax breaks, then don't even bother responding to this thread because tax breaks aren't welfare. Tax breaks simply mean that the tax gouging on the corporations won't be as deep, painful or debilitating.
So what's with the "welfare". Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?
The bailout of any private enterprise using public funds is welfare - I don't think anybody needs to hear any examples of this happening.
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wonderworker: Fascism perhaps ?
Mussolinni refered to the "Corporate State"
Are we so far removed from corporate rule that "fascism" might actually cease to be a dirty word after these many years...?
No..?
What the hell,we'll just call it something else then.
Some of the old distinctions are getting blurry.
How about: SocioIndustrialComplex ?
Or:CommerceAndCommunalityConsortium ?
We could hold a naming contest.
Winner gets free,inflation adjusted, Tax Credits for Life,plus Stock Options.
All of the Above!Mussolinni refered to the "Corporate State"
Are we so far removed from corporate rule that "fascism" might actually cease to be a dirty word after these many years...?
No..?
What the hell,we'll just call it something else then.
Some of the old distinctions are getting blurry.
How about: SocioIndustrialComplex ?
Or:CommerceAndCommunalityConsortium ?
We could hold a naming contest.
Winner gets free,inflation adjusted, Tax Credits for Life,plus Stock Options.
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TrueBlue1986: The bailout of any private enterprise using public funds is welfare - I don't think anybody needs to hear any examples of this happening.
I see. Welfare checks and food stamps given free gratis vs. Corporate loans paid back with interest.
Same/Same? Is that your final answer?
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So, should it be said then that if the government loans money to a big corporation to keep it from going bankrupt that it's "welfare"?
If so, when are we going to start collecting all the money and interest owed to us by those on "non-corporate-welfare"?
If so, when are we going to start collecting all the money and interest owed to us by those on "non-corporate-welfare"?
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Besides corporations have a lot money, which allows them to get a good accountant that would find loops holes in the laws or classify their assets, liabilities, equity into different categories allowing them to avoid taxes that you and I have because we can afford a good accountant.
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And now that we're discussing this, how often does everyone think the government makes emergency bailout loans to industry? I can only think of three occasions off the top of my head (auto industry, airline industry and banking industry).
But are those three unsuual circumstances all that people are talking about with the incessant rambling about "corporate welfare"? I hear the term so much, it would seem that every month corporations should be cashing a government check and distributing foodstamps. Of course, that's not even CLOSE to reality, but I'm just trying to see if anyone can explain the full depth of this "corporate welfare" thing we have going on.
But are those three unsuual circumstances all that people are talking about with the incessant rambling about "corporate welfare"? I hear the term so much, it would seem that every month corporations should be cashing a government check and distributing foodstamps. Of course, that's not even CLOSE to reality, but I'm just trying to see if anyone can explain the full depth of this "corporate welfare" thing we have going on.
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The problem that under capitalism some should have been allowed to go under, but since they were to big fail to the point of holding country hostage. There a lot of blame to go around but we should have never allowed this institutions to get to big to fail or to become monopolies.
gardenhackle: And now that we're discussing this, how often does everyone think the government makes emergency bailout loans to industry? I can only think of three occasions off the top of my head (auto industry, airline industry and banking industry).
But are those three unsuual circumstances all that people are talking about with the incessant rambling about "corporate welfare"? I hear the term so much, it would seem that every month corporations should be cashing a government check and distributing foodstamps. Of course, that's not even CLOSE to reality, but I'm just trying to see if anyone can explain the full depth of this "corporate welfare" thing we have going on.
But are those three unsuual circumstances all that people are talking about with the incessant rambling about "corporate welfare"? I hear the term so much, it would seem that every month corporations should be cashing a government check and distributing foodstamps. Of course, that's not even CLOSE to reality, but I'm just trying to see if anyone can explain the full depth of this "corporate welfare" thing we have going on.
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sorry for my spelling and grammar...
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you say tax breaks are not coperate welfare but they do belong with it just like zero interest loans grands..the allowance of certain qrite offs..those saleable clean air certificates..all which benefits a company is meant be corperate welfare..
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The problem is that under capitalism some institutions should have been allowed to go under, but since they were too big to fail they had to be bailed out. This is bad because it allows these institutions to hold our country hostage. There's a lot of blame to go around but we should have never allowed these institutions to get too big to fail or to become monopolies.
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gardenhackle: I see. Welfare checks and food stamps given free gratis vs. Corporate loans paid back with interest.
Same/Same? Is that your final answer?
Same/Same? Is that your final answer?
You have a private business that can't compete. This business is then financed from outside business to maintain its operation - this is Right-wing Socialism/Fascism in origin.
And yes there is the chance of being paid back. However, given the inflation we have had and expect to see ahead, and the relatively cheap rate of interest to begin with, do you expect to see a profit on these bailouts?
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Good thread!Let´s face it,-the idea of the welfare state is gone&buried...From my part of the world,that meant that resourcses should have been "distributed" equally,-AMONG THE CITIZENS,-not among anyone who claimed it...
But Socialism took it a bit further,and killed it´s own idea of welfare,by handing over the welfare system to anyone to desired it....,without contributing to it...
Maybe a bit hard to explain,-since we live on 2 sides of the Ocean,-but the welfare system is a smoke´s screen,-long gone dead,and only surviving by loans and national debt....But,it´s gone.....
But Socialism took it a bit further,and killed it´s own idea of welfare,by handing over the welfare system to anyone to desired it....,without contributing to it...
Maybe a bit hard to explain,-since we live on 2 sides of the Ocean,-but the welfare system is a smoke´s screen,-long gone dead,and only surviving by loans and national debt....But,it´s gone.....
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robsantiago15: The problem that under capitalism some should have been allowed to go under, but since they were to big fail to the point of holding country hostage. There a lot of blame to go around but we should have never allowed this institutions to get to big to fail or to become monopolies.
I agree with that assessment. There was some truth in "too big to fail" and I'm still not certain whether the best course of action would have been to let the industries fail or to keep them afloat since we were all tied to the ship and didn't want to drown, ourselves.
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robsantiago15: The problem that under capitalism some should have been allowed to go under, but since they were to big fail to the point of holding country hostage. There a lot of blame to go around but we should have never allowed this institutions to get to big to fail or to become monopolies.
We concur. There would have been a temporary vacuum, but
someone would have came in to fill the vacuum.
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iamwhoiamyousee: you say tax breaks are not coperate welfare but they do belong with it just like zero interest loans grands..the allowance of certain qrite offs..those saleable clean air certificates..all which benefits a company is meant be corperate welfare..
Tax breaks... there's something worth talking about. WHAT tax breaks specifically do you think are wrong? Each and every one has had a tremendous amount of debate and more is probably in order, but "tax breaks" in and of themselves, don't mean much. Specifics are required, particularly if we're going to wave our hands and say "tax breaks are corporate welfare", lumping everything together as though it's a gift from taxpayers. Many "tax breaks" are simply appropriate for general accounting practices. Some are incentives to get business to behave the way the government WANTS them to behave.
"Tax breaks for corporations" gets lumped together as one big single evil thing for the sake of specious argumentation about corporatism. Especially since we're trying to see what exactly all the claims of "corporate welfare" REALLY come down to.
Do you have a pet tax break or loophole that you think is there merely to gift corporations?
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We know what welfare is. You're dead broke. You live in a trailer. Your car doesn't run. You don't work. You've got no prospects. You produce nothing. The government gives you food to eat and some spending money because we don't want you to starve to death.
How in the heck does that apply to "corporations", though? Corporations work. Corporations pay taxes. Corporations hire people. Corporations supply products to the USA. Corporations the heart and soul of the US economy.
They don't go having kids in order to get more welfare. They don't get governmen checks sent to them because they want to sit in front of a TV all day. They pay dues and fines and taxes and fees out the wazoo.....
What exactly is the "welfare" they get? If you're talking about tax breaks, then don't even bother responding to this thread because tax breaks aren't welfare. Tax breaks simply mean that the tax gouging on the corporations won't be as deep, painful or debilitating.
So what's with the "welfare". Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?