Why don't we invite Hugo Chavez? (56)

Apr 17, 2011 5:36 PM CST Why don't we invite Hugo Chavez?
scriobhneoir
scriobhneoirscriobhneoirCork, Ireland85 Threads 2 Polls 3,276 Posts
Okay, so we're getting set to invite two imperialists whose armies are in the middle of immoral wars in Iraq and Afghanistan respectively.

So why not invite a genuine democrat like Hugo Chavez? No leader on earth has done more to empower his citizens. People talk about democracy here, but Venezuela is an example of real grassroots democracy in action. Ordinary people have succeeded despite the pressure of a hostile US, and gang of corrupt oligarchs who have already tried one failed coup. So why not invite the bold Hugo? Or does he have to invade somewhere first?roll eyes
Apr 17, 2011 5:46 PM CST Why don't we invite Hugo Chavez?
stanley8m
stanley8mstanley8mkildare, Kildare Ireland156 Threads 7 Polls 5,341 Posts
scriobhneoir: Okay, so we're getting set to invite two imperialists whose armies are in the middle of immoral wars in Iraq and Afghanistan respectively.

So why not invite a genuine democrat like Hugo Chavez? No leader on earth has done more to empower his citizens. People talk about democracy here, but Venezuela is an example of real grassroots democracy in action. Ordinary people have succeeded despite the pressure of a hostile US, and gang of corrupt oligarchs who have already tried one failed coup. So why not invite the bold Hugo? Or does he have to invade somewhere first?


sure,, why not,, the more the merrier,, if his wife looks anything like the one prince albert of monaco brought here he would be more than welcome anyday..
Apr 17, 2011 5:50 PM CST Why don't we invite Hugo Chavez?
scriobhneoir: Okay, so we're getting set to invite two imperialists whose armies are in the middle of immoral wars in Iraq and Afghanistan respectively.

So why not invite a genuine democrat like Hugo Chavez? No leader on earth has done more to empower his citizens. People talk about democracy here, but Venezuela is an example of real grassroots democracy in action. Ordinary people have succeeded despite the pressure of a hostile US, and gang of corrupt oligarchs who have already tried one failed coup. So why not invite the bold Hugo? Or does he have to invade somewhere first?


Two reasons, one, he's an anti-semite and two he supports dictators like Mugabe and Gaddafi.
Apr 17, 2011 5:52 PM CST Why don't we invite Hugo Chavez?
scriobhneoir
scriobhneoirscriobhneoirCork, Ireland85 Threads 2 Polls 3,276 Posts
snowlynx: Two reasons, one, he's an anti-semite and two he supports dictators like Mugabe and Gaddafi.


And your evidence for either of these positions would be?
Apr 17, 2011 5:52 PM CST Why don't we invite Hugo Chavez?
blipper2000
blipper2000blipper2000dublin, Dublin Ireland69 Threads 9 Polls 6,900 Posts
snowlynx: Two reasons, one, he's an anti-semite and two he supports dictators like Mugabe and Gaddafi.

and he changed trhe constitution so he could stand for a third term
thats not democracy
Apr 17, 2011 5:53 PM CST Why don't we invite Hugo Chavez?
blipper2000
blipper2000blipper2000dublin, Dublin Ireland69 Threads 9 Polls 6,900 Posts
scriobhneoir: And your evidence for either of these positions would be?

hes openly said he supports themuh oh
Apr 17, 2011 6:05 PM CST Why don't we invite Hugo Chavez?
scriobhneoir
scriobhneoirscriobhneoirCork, Ireland85 Threads 2 Polls 3,276 Posts
blipper2000: and he changed trhe constitution so he could stand for a third term
thats not democracy


I was waiting for this chestnut to be brought out. Always great when an often repeated lie, that you know you can refute is wheeled out.

First of all, what you are referring to is the referendum on term limits which was passed in 2009. A democratic decision made by the majority of venezuelans. In this referendum, it was proposed that the upper limit on term limits be removed.

Term limits do not exist for heads of government in most of the main western countries. Britain don't have them, Germany don't France don't, Canada don't, ditto Australia. Term limits were only intruduced in the States in the forties or fifties, they are not an inherent part of democracy. Especially when the people of the country vote to abolish them.

Bear in mind also that the reason this had to go before the people as a stand alone issue, was that they had already rejected a constitutional reform package, very narrowly in a referendum in late 2007. Under Venezuelan Law you cannot hold the same referendum twice, So Chavez accepted his defeat and moved on. So much for being anti-democratic.
Apr 18, 2011 2:26 AM CST Why don't we invite Hugo Chavez?
biggles90000
biggles90000biggles90000kilkenny, Kilkenny Ireland154 Threads 17 Polls 4,582 Posts
Hugo Chavez carrer

July 28, 1954: Hugo Rafael Chávez Frías was born
1980:he founded the secretive Revolutionary Bolivarian Movement-200 (MBR-200) to work towards overthrowing it. After the Democratic Action government of President Carlos Andrés Pérez
1992:ordered the violent repression of protests against spending cuts, Chávez led the MBR-200 in an unsuccessful coup d'état against the government for which he was imprisoned.
1998:Getting out of prison after two years, he founded a political party, the Fifth Republic Movement, and was elected president of Venezuela in 1998. He subsequently introduced a new constitution which increased rights for marginalised groups and altered the structure of Venezuelan government, and was re-elected in 2000.
2000: Became the 56th president of Venenzuela.
2002: The opposition movement meanwhile, fearing that he was eroding representative democracy and becoming increasingly dictatorial, attempted to remove him from power both through an unsuccessful military coup in 2002 and a recall referendum in 2003.
2006.Re elected again in to power following which he founded a new political party, the United Socialist Party of Venezuela (PSUV), in 2007

Hugo chavez was against American foregin policy Allying himself strongly with the socialist governments of Fidel Castro in Cuba, Evo Morales in Bolivia and Rafael Correa of Ecuador, he has supported Latin American and Caribbean cooperation and was instrumental in setting up the pan-regional Union of South American Nations, the Bolivarian Alliance for the Americas, the Bank of the South, and the regional television network TeleSur.

and i was told i knew nothing about current affairs.laugh
Apr 18, 2011 3:55 AM CST Why don't we invite Hugo Chavez?
scriobhneoir
scriobhneoirscriobhneoirCork, Ireland85 Threads 2 Polls 3,276 Posts
In response to: Okay, so we're getting set to invite two imperialists whose armies are in the middle of immoral wars in Iraq and Afghanistan respectively.

So why not invite a genuine democrat like Hugo Chavez? No leader on earth has done more to empower his citizens. People talk about democracy here, but Venezuela is an example of real grassroots democracy in action. Ordinary people have succeeded despite the pressure of a hostile US, and gang of corrupt oligarchs who have already tried one failed coup. So why not invite the bold Hugo? Or does he have to invade somewhere first?


Great post Biggles.
Apr 18, 2011 5:03 AM CST Why don't we invite Hugo Chavez?
optomistic68
optomistic68optomistic68Craigavon, Antrim Ireland23 Threads 826 Posts
snowlynx: Two reasons, one, he's an anti-semite and two he supports dictators like Mugabe and Gaddafi.

What is an anti-semite? and why hasn't Zimbabwe been invaded. We know why Libya was.

blipper2000: and he changed trhe constitution so he could stand for a third term
thats not democracy


Venezuela is far more democratic than America for instance. He was overthrown remember and the ordinary people demanded his return. That is known as people power. Chavez has won eight elections fairly and squarely but it is not liked by America because he caters for ordinary people before rich elites and corporations.
Apr 18, 2011 5:16 AM CST Why don't we invite Hugo Chavez?
scriobhneoir
scriobhneoirscriobhneoirCork, Ireland85 Threads 2 Polls 3,276 Posts
optomistic68: What is an anti-semite? and why hasn't Zimbabwe been invaded. We know why Libya was.
Venezuela is far more democratic than America for instance. He was overthrown remember and the ordinary people demanded his return. That is known as people power. Chavez has won eight elections fairly and squarely but it is not liked by America because he caters for ordinary people before rich elites and corporations.


Exactly. Also, contrary to the lies peddled by the American Media, he left the media plotters against him practically untouched after the coup. If the man is guilty of anything, it's being too reasonable.
Apr 18, 2011 5:38 AM CST Why don't we invite Hugo Chavez?
optomistic68: What is an anti-semite? and why hasn't Zimbabwe been invaded. We know why Libya was.
Venezuela is far more democratic than America for instance. He was overthrown remember and the ordinary people demanded his return. That is known as people power. Chavez has won eight elections fairly and squarely but it is not liked by America because he caters for ordinary people before rich elites and corporations.


If you really think Venezuela is more democratic than America then I'm afraid you know nothing about either place.
Apr 18, 2011 5:42 AM CST Why don't we invite Hugo Chavez?
scriobhneoir
scriobhneoirscriobhneoirCork, Ireland85 Threads 2 Polls 3,276 Posts
snowlynx: If you really think Venezuela is more democratic than America then I'm afraid you know nothing about either place.


I beg to differ. In terms of grassroots democracy, the US doesn't even register on the radar in comparison to Venezuela. Are there problems in Venezuela? Absolutely, but they owe more to past US backed regimes than anything Chavez has done.

Are you seriously trying tyo tell me that if a TV station tried to overthrow Barrack Obama, that he would let it operate unmolested until its license was naturally up for renew?
Apr 18, 2011 5:44 AM CST Why don't we invite Hugo Chavez?
optomistic68
optomistic68optomistic68Craigavon, Antrim Ireland23 Threads 826 Posts
snowlynx: If you really think Venezuela is more democratic than America then I'm afraid you know nothing about either place.


You didn't address the Anti-Semite question I see.


Please Do tell me about America and Venezuela.professor
Apr 18, 2011 5:50 AM CST Why don't we invite Hugo Chavez?
scriobhneoir: I beg to differ. In terms of grassroots democracy, the US doesn't even register on the radar in comparison to Venezuela. Are there problems in Venezuela? Absolutely, but they owe more to past US backed regimes than anything Chavez has done.

Are you seriously trying tyo tell me that if a TV station tried to overthrow Barrack Obama, that he would let it operate unmolested until its license was naturally up for renew?



Grassroots democracy? Americans elect their local mayor and police chief it is a fully democratic country right down to local level. Venezuela has an imperfect democracy (probably through no fault of their own) and a leader who wants to play a big part on the worlds stage rather than deal with his countries problems.

I'll believe he's a democrat when he peacefully hands over power to whoever the people elect to replace him.
Apr 18, 2011 6:20 AM CST Why don't we invite Hugo Chavez?
Phoenix
PhoenixPhoenixSarkoville, Ile-de-France France110 Threads 32 Polls 2,591 Posts
biggles90000: Hugo Chavez carrer

July 28, 1954: Hugo Rafael Chávez Frías was born
1980:he founded the secretive Revolutionary Bolivarian Movement-200 (MBR-200) to work towards overthrowing it. After the Democratic Action government of President Carlos Andrés Pérez
1992:ordered the violent repression of protests against spending cuts, Chávez led the MBR-200 in an unsuccessful coup d'état against the government for which he was imprisoned.
1998:Getting out of prison after two years, he founded a political party, the Fifth Republic Movement, and was elected president of Venezuela in 1998. He subsequently introduced a new constitution which increased rights for marginalised groups and altered the structure of Venezuelan government, and was re-elected in 2000.
2000: Became the 56th president of Venenzuela.
2002: The opposition movement meanwhile, fearing that he was eroding representative democracy and becoming increasingly dictatorial, attempted to remove him from power both through an unsuccessful military coup in 2002 and a recall referendum in 2003.
2006.Re elected again in to power following which he founded a new political party, the United Socialist Party of Venezuela (PSUV), in 2007

Hugo chavez was against American foregin policy Allying himself strongly with the socialist governments of Fidel Castro in Cuba, Evo Morales in Bolivia and Rafael Correa of Ecuador, he has supported Latin American and Caribbean cooperation and was instrumental in setting up the pan-regional Union of South American Nations, the Bolivarian Alliance for the Americas, the Bank of the South, and the regional television network TeleSur.

and i was told i knew nothing about current affairs.


Doing a quick copy/paste from wiki or other proves nothing about what you do-don't know. Try using your own words to explain (not someone else's all the time....grin ) While you're reading this...Copy-paste the link.
Apr 18, 2011 6:22 AM CST Why don't we invite Hugo Chavez?
Phoenix
PhoenixPhoenixSarkoville, Ile-de-France France110 Threads 32 Polls 2,591 Posts
snowlynx: If you really think Venezuela is more democratic than America then I'm afraid you know nothing about either place.


Ahh the good ol' U.S of A...where in Dade county (Miami)..Jeb Bush stopped black americans from voting in the first election of George W's term...(very democratic snowny....)
Apr 18, 2011 6:25 AM CST Why don't we invite Hugo Chavez?
scriobhneoir
scriobhneoirscriobhneoirCork, Ireland85 Threads 2 Polls 3,276 Posts
snowlynx: Grassroots democracy? Americans elect their local mayor and police chief it is a fully democratic country right down to local level. Venezuela has an imperfect democracy (probably through no fault of their own) and a leader who wants to play a big part on the worlds stage rather than deal with his countries problems.

I'll believe he's a democrat when he peacefully hands over power to whoever the people elect to replace him.


Yet you have no problem with the US, where the Supreme court can simply apppoint a president inspite of damning evidence that he lost the election as they did with Baby Bush in 2000. Mayors are elected in Venezuela too and they have councils of ordinary people who make all the decisions in communities, so what exactly is your point?
Apr 18, 2011 6:31 AM CST Why don't we invite Hugo Chavez?
optomistic68
optomistic68optomistic68Craigavon, Antrim Ireland23 Threads 826 Posts
Phoenix: Ahh the good ol' U.S of A...where in Dade county (Miami)..Jeb Bush stopped black americans from voting in the first election of George W's term...(very democratic snowny....)


Not only is America undemocratic it has also been the biggest exporter of terrorism for over 60 years. America has attempted to overthrow over 60 countries some of them real Democracies.
Apr 18, 2011 11:19 AM CST Why don't we invite Hugo Chavez?
biggles90000
biggles90000biggles90000kilkenny, Kilkenny Ireland154 Threads 17 Polls 4,582 Posts
scriobhneoir: Great post Biggles.


thanks scrib i done a bit of research on the net there this morning spelling not great lad although i like to back up my facts even though i do get accused by some people about copy and pasting.frustrated frustrated very mad
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