Unbelievers in Global Warming (126)
I met one yesterday. I find its always good to look at the other person's reasoning on anything.
He acutally came up with the basic arguement that the earth has been through this before - a rather broad way of looking at it and rather holey like the ozone layer
He acutally came up with the basic arguement that the earth has been through this before - a rather broad way of looking at it and rather holey like the ozone layer
this thread i will watch with great interest
The United Nations' Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) projects that global temperatures will rise an additional 3 to10 degrees Fahrenheit (1.6 to 5.5 degrees Celsius) by century's end.
• Over the last million years the Earth has fluctuated between colder and warmer periods. The shifts have occurred in roughly 100,000-year intervals thought to be regulated by sunlight. Earth's sunlight quota depends upon its orbit and celestial orientation.
But changes have also occurred more rapidly in the past—and scientists hope that these changes can tell us more about the current state of climate change. During the last ice age, approximately 70,000 to 11,500 years ago, ice covered much of North America and Europe—yet sudden, sometimes drastic, climate changes occurred during the period. Greenland ice cores indicate one spike in which the area's surface temperature increased by 15 degrees Fahrenheit (9 degrees Celsius) in just 10 years.
A 100 % Increase in intensity and duration
of hurricanes and tropical storms
since the 1970's, according to a 2005 MIT study.
2030 the Year by which Glacier National Park will have no glaciers left, according to the U.S. Geological Survey predictions.
400 000 Square miles of Arctic sea ice that have melted
in the last 30 years (roughly the size of Texas), threatening polar bear habitats and further accelerating global warming worldwide, according to the Arctic Climate Impact Assessment.
15 - 37 % Amount of plant and animal species that global warming could wipe out by 2050.
• Over the last million years the Earth has fluctuated between colder and warmer periods. The shifts have occurred in roughly 100,000-year intervals thought to be regulated by sunlight. Earth's sunlight quota depends upon its orbit and celestial orientation.
But changes have also occurred more rapidly in the past—and scientists hope that these changes can tell us more about the current state of climate change. During the last ice age, approximately 70,000 to 11,500 years ago, ice covered much of North America and Europe—yet sudden, sometimes drastic, climate changes occurred during the period. Greenland ice cores indicate one spike in which the area's surface temperature increased by 15 degrees Fahrenheit (9 degrees Celsius) in just 10 years.
A 100 % Increase in intensity and duration
of hurricanes and tropical storms
since the 1970's, according to a 2005 MIT study.
2030 the Year by which Glacier National Park will have no glaciers left, according to the U.S. Geological Survey predictions.
400 000 Square miles of Arctic sea ice that have melted
in the last 30 years (roughly the size of Texas), threatening polar bear habitats and further accelerating global warming worldwide, according to the Arctic Climate Impact Assessment.
15 - 37 % Amount of plant and animal species that global warming could wipe out by 2050.
• Sea levels have risen and fallen many times over the Earth's long geological history. Average global sea level has risen by 4 to 8 inches (10 to 20cm) over the past century according to the IPCC.
The IPCC's 2001 report projects that sea level could rise between 4 and 35 inches (10 to 89cm) by century's end. Such rises could have major effects for coastal dwellers. A 1.5-foot (50-centimeter) sea level rise in flat coastal areas would cause a typical coastline retreat of 150 feet (50 meters).
Worldwide some 100 million people live within 3 feet (1 meter) of mean sea level. Rises of just 4 inches (10 centimeters) could promote flooding in many South Sea islands, while in the U.S. Florida and Louisiana are at risk. The Indian Ocean nation of Maldives has a maximum elevation of only 8 feet (2.5 meters). Construction of a sea wall around the capital, Male, was driven by vulnerability to the rising tides.
• The ocean's circulation system, known as the ocean conveyor belt, moderates global temperatures by moving tropical heat around the planet. Global warming could alter the balance of this system, via an influx of freshwater from melting ice caps for example, creating unforeseen and possibly fast-paced change.
Climate models suggest that global warming could cause more frequent extreme weather conditions. Intense hurricanes and storm surges could threaten coastal communities, while heat waves, fires and drought could also become more common.
• Since the 1860s, increased industrialization and shrinking forests have helped raise the atmosphere's CO2 level by almost 100 parts per million—and Northern Hemisphere temperatures have followed suit. Increases in temperatures and greenhouse gasses have been even sharper since the 1950s.
Water vapor is the most important greenhouse gas. Carbon dioxide, methane and nitrous oxide also contain heat and help keep Earth's temperate climate balanced in the cold void of space. Human activities, burning fossil fuels and clearing forests, have greatly increased concentrations by producing these gases faster than plants and oceans can soak them up. The gases linger in the atmosphere for years, meaning that even a complete halt in emissions would not immediately stop the warming trend they promote.
• In the Arctic the impacts of a warming climate are being felt already. Coastal Indigenous communities report shorter periods of sea ice, which fails to temper ocean storms and their destructive coastal erosion. Increased snow and ice melt have caused higher rivers while thawing permafrost has wreaked havoc with roads and other infrastructure. Some communities have had to move from historic coastline locations.
Sea ice loss is devastating for species that have adapted to the environment, such as polar bears and ringed seals in the Arctic and Antarctic penguins.
• Studies show that many European plants now flower a week earlier than they did in the 1950s and also lose their leaves 5 days later.
Biologists report that many birds and frogs are breeding earlier in the season. An analysis of 35 nonmigratory butterfly species showed that two-thirds now range 2 to 150 miles (3.5 to 240 kilometers) farther north than they did a few decades ago.
• By 2050, rising temperatures exacerbated by human-induced belches of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases could send more than a million of Earth's land-dwelling plants and animals down the road to extinction, according to a recent study.
• Coral reefs worldwide are "bleaching". losing key algae and resident organisms, as water temperatures rise above 85 degrees Fahrenheit (29.5 degrees Celsius) through periods of calm, sunny weather. Scientists worry that rapid climate change could inhibit the ability of many species to adapt within complex and interdependent ecosystems.
The IPCC's 2001 report projects that sea level could rise between 4 and 35 inches (10 to 89cm) by century's end. Such rises could have major effects for coastal dwellers. A 1.5-foot (50-centimeter) sea level rise in flat coastal areas would cause a typical coastline retreat of 150 feet (50 meters).
Worldwide some 100 million people live within 3 feet (1 meter) of mean sea level. Rises of just 4 inches (10 centimeters) could promote flooding in many South Sea islands, while in the U.S. Florida and Louisiana are at risk. The Indian Ocean nation of Maldives has a maximum elevation of only 8 feet (2.5 meters). Construction of a sea wall around the capital, Male, was driven by vulnerability to the rising tides.
• The ocean's circulation system, known as the ocean conveyor belt, moderates global temperatures by moving tropical heat around the planet. Global warming could alter the balance of this system, via an influx of freshwater from melting ice caps for example, creating unforeseen and possibly fast-paced change.
Climate models suggest that global warming could cause more frequent extreme weather conditions. Intense hurricanes and storm surges could threaten coastal communities, while heat waves, fires and drought could also become more common.
• Since the 1860s, increased industrialization and shrinking forests have helped raise the atmosphere's CO2 level by almost 100 parts per million—and Northern Hemisphere temperatures have followed suit. Increases in temperatures and greenhouse gasses have been even sharper since the 1950s.
Water vapor is the most important greenhouse gas. Carbon dioxide, methane and nitrous oxide also contain heat and help keep Earth's temperate climate balanced in the cold void of space. Human activities, burning fossil fuels and clearing forests, have greatly increased concentrations by producing these gases faster than plants and oceans can soak them up. The gases linger in the atmosphere for years, meaning that even a complete halt in emissions would not immediately stop the warming trend they promote.
• In the Arctic the impacts of a warming climate are being felt already. Coastal Indigenous communities report shorter periods of sea ice, which fails to temper ocean storms and their destructive coastal erosion. Increased snow and ice melt have caused higher rivers while thawing permafrost has wreaked havoc with roads and other infrastructure. Some communities have had to move from historic coastline locations.
Sea ice loss is devastating for species that have adapted to the environment, such as polar bears and ringed seals in the Arctic and Antarctic penguins.
• Studies show that many European plants now flower a week earlier than they did in the 1950s and also lose their leaves 5 days later.
Biologists report that many birds and frogs are breeding earlier in the season. An analysis of 35 nonmigratory butterfly species showed that two-thirds now range 2 to 150 miles (3.5 to 240 kilometers) farther north than they did a few decades ago.
• By 2050, rising temperatures exacerbated by human-induced belches of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases could send more than a million of Earth's land-dwelling plants and animals down the road to extinction, according to a recent study.
• Coral reefs worldwide are "bleaching". losing key algae and resident organisms, as water temperatures rise above 85 degrees Fahrenheit (29.5 degrees Celsius) through periods of calm, sunny weather. Scientists worry that rapid climate change could inhibit the ability of many species to adapt within complex and interdependent ecosystems.
Food or Bio Fuel?
A common objection to biomass energy production is that it could divert agricultural production away from food crops in a hungry world -- even leading to mass starvation in the poor countries.
People starve because they're victims of an inequitable economic system, not because they're victims of scarcity and overpopulation.
A common objection to biomass energy production is that it could divert agricultural production away from food crops in a hungry world -- even leading to mass starvation in the poor countries.
People starve because they're victims of an inequitable economic system, not because they're victims of scarcity and overpopulation.
More on Bio Fuels
Loek Boonekamp, the Dutch head of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD)'s commercial and marketing division, told the press that governments are very much enthused about this process but that they should objectively consider whether ethanol ought to be given such resolute support.
According to Boonekamp, the United States is the only country where ethanol can be profitable and, without subsidies, no other country can make it viable.
According to the report, Boonekamp insists that ethanol is not manna from Heaven and that we should not blindly commit to developing this process.
Today, developed countries are pushing to have fossil fuels mixed with biofuels at around five percent and this is already affecting agricultural prices. If this figure went up to 10 percent, 30 percent of the United States' cultivated surface and 50 percent of Europe's would be required. That is the reason Boonekamp asks himself whether the process is sustainable, as an increase in the demand for crops destined to ethanol production would generate higher and less stable prices.
Loek Boonekamp, the Dutch head of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD)'s commercial and marketing division, told the press that governments are very much enthused about this process but that they should objectively consider whether ethanol ought to be given such resolute support.
According to Boonekamp, the United States is the only country where ethanol can be profitable and, without subsidies, no other country can make it viable.
According to the report, Boonekamp insists that ethanol is not manna from Heaven and that we should not blindly commit to developing this process.
Today, developed countries are pushing to have fossil fuels mixed with biofuels at around five percent and this is already affecting agricultural prices. If this figure went up to 10 percent, 30 percent of the United States' cultivated surface and 50 percent of Europe's would be required. That is the reason Boonekamp asks himself whether the process is sustainable, as an increase in the demand for crops destined to ethanol production would generate higher and less stable prices.
enjoyed reading that hf and i have a feeling there is a lot more to come yet especialy on the subject of resources such as water and when the oil runs out global travel ceases do we become hunter /gathers again like our forefathers told you it should get intersting watch this space
Good afternoon everyone. I must admit i really appreciate the detailed info from you Highfidelity. I try to follow any documentary about this matter which all of us should take seriously. Thanks 
Well done Homer for starting this incredible interesting thread. 
Thanks Marti,
the subject I follow for quite some time - since the Club of Rome´s Scientists gave out a warning some 20 years ago..
but Politicians had nothing better to do as to laugh about it, the Kyoto protocoll was not signed and all went on by full force..
Now to save the Polarbears .. even the US politicians start to think about it .. of course not of people affected or the Billions of Dollars damage the Hurricans do .. because they are good for putting up Oil prices and the Economy..
the subject I follow for quite some time - since the Club of Rome´s Scientists gave out a warning some 20 years ago..
but Politicians had nothing better to do as to laugh about it, the Kyoto protocoll was not signed and all went on by full force..
Now to save the Polarbears .. even the US politicians start to think about it .. of course not of people affected or the Billions of Dollars damage the Hurricans do .. because they are good for putting up Oil prices and the Economy..
there r several threads on this subject i feel it is the one subject we all care about about but do little about it why because we all say im only one person or there r only 10 o us its about time we stood up up and said nobody owns this planet so therefore noone has he right to rapeit of its natural resouses and to put wildlife at risk sowho will stand up
Wedward, please re-read what you smeared down in one incompreheniv string of words .. and make it readable and understandable to others - because let me tell you the truth - I could´nt understand - and I rather think it a great disrespect to others ..perhaps thats why some people leave the forums.. 
Even if not fully aware of all the facts, Global Warming has lately come to be generally accepted by the intelligentsia, by governments, by large sections of ordinary people all around the globe. There are holdouts though; those who are somewhat over-sceptical of what they might consider 'received wisdom' and of course those, mainly in politics and business, who stand to lose something. The overriding fact though is how little is being done about it. The EU commisioned a committee to report their findings and recommendations on the subject but as soon as the committee gave its recommendations earlier this year major participatory countries like Germany rejected their findings as for example on the manufacture of automobile with reduced emissions. It would cost their national industries too much, they said, to conform to such changes. Were they entirely oblivious how this would go down with developing countries like China and India whose very economic development would be arrested if they were to reduce significantly their output of green house gases. Yet these are the countries made out to be the chief villains behind global warming when in fact they had virtually no role in the development of today's problem. How committed is the western industrialised world towards addressing this problem when such startling hypocrisy characterise their statements and actions?
The political arguments rage on; the world talks excitedly about it; but the globe continues its slide towards self-annihilation. Should there not be mass demonstrations on the streets? Where are the students in the universities of the world - those young people who have forced change by mass action in political and social isssues all through the last century.
Isnt there an alarming lack of a 'vanguard' to spearhead the movement which is central to saving this earth? Individual sacrifices are very good but isn't a collective sacrifice of comforts required, a mass movement to make things happen before it is too late?
What do you think?
The political arguments rage on; the world talks excitedly about it; but the globe continues its slide towards self-annihilation. Should there not be mass demonstrations on the streets? Where are the students in the universities of the world - those young people who have forced change by mass action in political and social isssues all through the last century.
Isnt there an alarming lack of a 'vanguard' to spearhead the movement which is central to saving this earth? Individual sacrifices are very good but isn't a collective sacrifice of comforts required, a mass movement to make things happen before it is too late?
What do you think?
soooo sorry but my computer has seen better days but i do not use ,. thats how i write and judging by the amount of support mail i get its not anything like a reason for people to leave quite the oppisite i think and if you live in a green house you dont normally throw stones
re read it accept for a couple of mispelt words which is the same on you post it reads ok and makes sense if you take your time reading it
my time is as limited as other peoples pacience, but maybe I am too honest for CS too 
I think Wedward can stand his own ground. Arrogance born from passion... A small price for a detailed , thoughful and passionate response. 
i stand alone all forelorn and think of happy days when ladies wore aprons and clogs and when the man came home and said where is my dinner she would reply in the dog but now i am free an write what i please feel free to throw stones and i,ll throw bolders back right jack have a nice day
GAGABOOGABLAHGOO..
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If you meet one, will you reason with them or will you dismiss them as irresponsible cranks?