America the beautiful--by Judge Roy Moore ( Archived) (19)

James Madison to Edward Livingston

July 10, 1822

Notwithstanding the general progress made within the two last centuries in favour of this branch of liberty, & the full establishment of it, in some parts of our Country, there remains in others a strong bias towards the old error, that without some sort of alliance or coalition between Govt. & Religion neither can be duly supported. Such indeed is the tendency to such a coalition, and such its corrupting influence on both the parties, that the danger cannot be too carefully guarded agst. And in a Govt. of opinion, like ours, the only effectual guard must be found in the soundness and stability of the general opinion on the subject. Every new & successful example therefore of a perfect separation between ecclesiastical and civil matters, is of importance. And I have no doubt that every new example, will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt. will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together. It was the belief of all sects at one time that the establishment of Religion by law, was right & necessary; that the true religion ought to be established in exclusion of every other; And that the only question to be decided was which was the true religion. The example of Holland proved that a toleration of sects, dissenting from the established sect, was safe & even useful. The example of the Colonies, now States, which rejected religious establishments altogether, proved that all Sects might be safely & advantageously put on a footing of equal & entire freedom; and a continuance of their example since the declaration of Independence, has shewn that its success in Colonies was not to be ascribed to their connection with the parent Country. If a further confirmation of the truth could be wanted, it is to be found in the examples furnished by the States, which have abolished their religious establishments. I cannot speak particularly of any of the cases excepting that of Virga. where it is impossible to deny that Religion prevails with more zeal, and a more exemplary priesthood than it ever did when established and patronised by Public authority. We are teaching the world the great truth that Govts. do better without Kings & Nobles than with them. The merit will be doubled by the other lesson that Religion flourishes in greater purity, without than with the aid of Govt.

Well hello High I knew i could count on u to be lurking in the shadows,hunting an argument.But as always YADA YADA YADA

kev who r the true Americans?

Thanks for the friendly invitation.. its always good to hold a conversation on interesting subjects at such high intellecutal level ..

how you distinguish true Americans from Untrue ?
Is this a selection of who is true to you - or to America ?

just for the record

Anyone who was born in the United States, or anyone who obtains citizenship. It is spelled out in the Constitution.

tks Kev

UR wel High

"separation of church and state does not mean separation of God and government"- Roy Moore

Hun?
The Church was never a member of government, just because God wouldn't allow it in that terms...

"often enough, in historical Europe, churches became the pawns of governments to silence dissent and gather information; and eventually to subvert the church for the needs of government.Even now, in the middle east, the Iranian governments use it's Mosques as recruitment of terrorits camps and sacrifice it's followers for political ends"


Mixing church and government, the issues biggin to be defiened as good or evil, instead of fair or not fair.
The liberties that were conquired up to this extend would be shocking with the church's belives.
The long way to God has different approches.Which one is the most correct?

If a country is composed by differnt religions, because of it's variety in culture...which one should be more noctorious?Isn't this a way of instigating intolerance?