GOD V RELIGION (402)
MikeHDDallas, Texas USA20 Threads 3 Polls 1,426 PostsHey guys! I can't stop and talk today, but I will be back tomorrow. I see there are some good questions for me to answer, so I look forward to getting back in here 
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Dusty45: ---
Oh, Trish, as much as I like you -- most of this information, above is
false. Please check out the real facts.
This is too important to put more fear into the people reading this and it's just inaccurate.
Oh, Trish, as much as I like you -- most of this information, above is
false. Please check out the real facts.
This is too important to put more fear into the people reading this and it's just inaccurate.
You are completely right without a doubt - i was really tired and I know thats no excuse for being wrong - It was meant to say 'in Saudi Arabia'.
It really wasnt meant to put fear into people, Im more likely to omit something for that reason and would never purposefully post disinformation - my personal integrity depends on this.
sincerest apologies and thanks for picking me up on this Dusty
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MikeHD: I and not sure about he first part of this question. If you are asking about a "man (or woman) of God" Then you are referring to a person that is sent by God. connection. God doesn't separate Himself from us, we separate ourselves from Him.
No Mike, I was referring to MAN being of god, under your terms, made by god, created by god... how and why would any god create such a fallible creature thats 'needs' him to survive and feel acceptable? he has control issues me thinks, much like a control freak sets you up to need and not be able to survive without them... to say he did this for us, I would call arrogance.
Fact, god does separate himself in being a 'higher being'... all knowing, all powerful ... truly a separation if it is indeed one god.
You can try the 'end runs' mike but they are non sequiturs.
In response to: And to the second question, there is more than a spoon, but you will not except it.
Just show me Mike... beyond theory and theology... show me the spoon. All I ask, without scripture that says "see me! or else you'll be in hell"
In response to: Why don’t we test the transcript to establish the validity of it? Then we can decide to include it as part of the historical record.
Indeed. Since the bible and its 'themes' have been copied-catted (in fact the bible is a copy cat of previous works in our history) by different civilizations throughout time, including mythology, with different names for the 'savior', one might expect that at least ONE historian would have written some notes on seeing this christ, whatever his name is, or the 27 others that have appeared according to myth and theology; whenever he came because there have been lots of them(at different times mind you). Yet no historian, has ever verified these claims. Only theology does (attempts to) and without proof I might add. Show me the spoon. Do the test, I agree... approach historians, not prophets and authors/editors/publishers.
Sometimes being hardened and entrenched in theology is as damaging to one's self (not to mention the human race) as is not being open to other possibilities, whether it be a sense of god or otherwise.
"There are none so blind as those who will not see." <-- not scripture , a mere man wrote this as well.
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BnaturAl: Only man uses love Mike.[facts we know] (as well as hate and number of other emotions.)
Only man uses love Mike.[facts we know] (as well as hate and number of other emotions.)
You're right the bible has some worthwhile lessons and advice. Man made once again, but still valuable. on the other hand there is so much hocus pocus.
You didn't watch the videos did you Mike? Why are you so afraid to lose this god of the bible mike? What will happen when you do?
Only man uses love Mike.[facts we know] (as well as hate and number of other emotions.)
You're right the bible has some worthwhile lessons and advice. Man made once again, but still valuable. on the other hand there is so much hocus pocus.
You didn't watch the videos did you Mike? Why are you so afraid to lose this god of the bible mike? What will happen when you do?
I think you may be wrong on the only man uses love part (unless I misunderstood what you were trying to say). Animals have long been thought of as using love. There is evidence of some animals even having a tendencies toward revenge.
Picking and choosing what to take from the bible is a very dangerous game played not only by secular thinkers, but by believers as well. It is so easy to take something the wrong way, if you leave part of it out. The bible's words are all attached to each other. Jesus is all over the old testament. It is incredible to see the vast numbers of parts that confirm and enforce the assertions of other parts. The book establishes a monumental amount of evidence unto itself. So why leave parts out? Some believe Jesus was a good man and a wise teacher, even though He said He was God. How can a good man claim to be God. He was either a liar or a crazy man. Unless of course, He was telling the truth.
And though I have not watched this video, please don't think I am afraid to listen or watch anything. I have to admit that I am both very busy, and lazy at the same time. I do however think, that you would be shocked at the diversity of my reading material. I love to read! And though most would believe I have my nose stuck in a bible 25/7, I have to admit this unfortunately is not true. I read mostly for pleasure, but I have read a wide variety of subjects that caught my eye at one time or another. I have not read the DaVinci Code, but I have seen the movie. I have read a lot of Nostradamus. I have read all of the vampire books by Ann Rice. I have read about half of Stephen Kings books. I also like Dean Koontz, but he sometimes has problems with his endings. I have read books or articles by Shirley McClain, Neale Walsch, Deepak Chopra, Anton Lavey, L. Ron Hubbard, and Carl Sagan. I have even read some things written a long time ago by the likes of Socrates, Voltaire, Mark Twain, and Albert Einstein. I only have one real problem with all of it…
it’s all the same old thing just repeated over and over again. There is no new revelation or evidence there. You can trace back all those thoughts back to when man originally started to rebel against God. There have been so many amazingly intelligent men throughout history, who have made some really clever statements, but it still goes back to attempts mold God into our image, reach God on our own, or prove God does not exist. Nothing new. But I do intend to watch the video, because I am slightly curious as to all the buzz ( I know, I know, I just contradicted myself, but what can I say LOL).
the same old thing just repeated over and over again. You see, I know how you feel about all the things you think you have heard about Christianity. The only difference is I used to be on the other side. I found Christianity to be silly and formed my own ideas according to what I wanted to believe. I will not go it that here, but it was not pretty and it was not going to end well.
I just thank God we are all here.
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BnaturAl: No Mike, I was referring to MAN being of god, under your terms, made by god, created by god... how and why would any god create such a fallible creature thats 'needs' him to survive and feel acceptable? he has control issues me thinks, much like a control freak sets you up to need and not be able to survive without them... to say he did this for us, I would call arrogance.
Fact, god does separate himself in being a 'higher being'... all knowing, all powerful ... truly a separation if it is indeed one god.
You can try the 'end runs' mike but they are non sequiturs.
Just show me Mike... beyond theory and theology... show me the spoon. All I ask, without scripture that says "see me! or else you'll be in hell"
Fact, god does separate himself in being a 'higher being'... all knowing, all powerful ... truly a separation if it is indeed one god.
You can try the 'end runs' mike but they are non sequiturs.
Just show me Mike... beyond theory and theology... show me the spoon. All I ask, without scripture that says "see me! or else you'll be in hell"
God did not make man fallible. Man decided not to follow God. Just as he still decides not to follow God. God wants man to see Him for what He is... his creator, his friend, his source, his protector, his king, his God. It has nothing to do with being an egomaniac or a control freak. Think of an employer wanting you do what he asks you to do. Does he expect you to follow his instructions simply because he wants to control you? Is it only egomaniacs that desire this? If you have a good boss, maybe he wants you to do it a certain way because he knows it is the best way for you to do it. If your are the employee and he (or she) is the employer, then isn't it right for you to work the way they desire you to work? Can you simply refuse because you question their right to expect such a thing from you, and still keep your job?
Doesn't that hold true in our relationship with our creator? God cannot do anything. He was unmade (meaning nobody made Him), therefore He cannot unmake Himself. He is God, and you are not. Nothing can change that. He could force you to follow Him, but instead He gave you the right to choose. He also created you with the ability to be happy, and then gave you a plan that would make you happier than you could ever imagined. It is we that decide we do not want God's plan for us.
If God is God, then how can He be arrogant? "Who do you think you are, God?"... "Well yes, I am"
God is separate in that His "stuff" is different from our "stuff". He is unmade, and we are made. He IS separate. He reaches to us. He comes to live inside us. He even became one of us, but He is separate.
Now I will attempt to convince you of the validity of the bible
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MikeHD: I think you may be wrong on the only man uses love part (unless I misunderstood what you were trying to say). Animals have long been thought of as using love. There is evidence of some animals even having a tendencies toward revenge.
.
.
I would have to defer to you animal evidence Mike. I am only aware of instinct, but is it sentient?
It is however another non sequitor in failing to answer that only Man uses love- versus your comment that god is love.(and hence hate and all other emotions and feelings). If god is love, man uses love then man is god.
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BnaturAl: Since the bible and its 'themes' have been copied-catted (in fact the bible is a copy cat of previous works in our history) by different civilizations throughout time, including mythology, with different names for the 'savior', one might expect that at least ONE historian would have written some notes on seeing this christ, whatever his name is,
Just a quick hit:
Even if there were a historians (like Flavius Josephus, Philo of Alexandria, or The History of the Church-Ecclesiastical History by Eusebius of Caesarea). You would not accept them.
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BnaturAl: If god is love, man uses love then man is god.
What?
If H2O is water, man uses water, then man is H2O ?
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MikeHD: God did not make man fallible. Man decided not to follow God. Just as he still decides not to follow God.
What does not following god have to do with being fallable? Nothing. And IF your response is that man chooses to be fallable in choosing, why would he create this infallability to choose so wrongly? makes sense?
Employers are controlists Mike, that's where your arguement fails. A better way to make them money is high on their list. In fact a boss who has no control over their employees won't be a boss for long. you see.
Good boss, bad boss is another distractive element of the overall question There are healthy constructive ways to control just as there are unhealthy destructive ways to control others, but both are control. MAN knows of these controls Mike and some use those facts and psychologies well, others do not.
Still MAN doing it, not god.
In response to: Doesn't that hold true in our relationship with our creator? God cannot do anything. He was unmade (meaning nobody made Him), therefore He cannot unmake Himself. He is God, and you are not. Nothing can change that. He could force you to follow Him, but instead He gave you the right to choose. He also created you with the ability to be happy, and then gave you a plan that would make you happier than you could ever imagined. It is we that decide we do not want God's plan for us.
Umm Mike .. what relationship with a creator, the unmade relationship?(because I still haven't seen him/her/it by any evidence, hence unmade relationship- or the one created by prophets of the bible(MAN) repenned, edited and published by another MAN.
If God is God, then how can He be arrogant? "Who do you think you are, God?"... "Well yes, I am"
Umm Mike .. what relationship with a creator, the unmade relationship?(because I still haven't seen him/her/it by any evidence, hence unmade relationship- or the one created by prophets of the bible(MAN) repenned, edited and published by another MAN.
If God is God, then how can He be arrogant? "Who do you think you are, God?"... "Well yes, I am"
If MAN is MAN, then how can He be arrogant? "Who do you think you are, MAN?"... "Well yes, I am"
arrogance is used by man Mike. Does a god use it. I don't know, dont know any gods to this point, but every aspect you attribute to god is also one of MAN.
In response to: God is separate in that His "stuff" is different from our "stuff". He is unmade, and we are made. He IS separate. He reaches to us. He comes to live inside us. He even became one of us, but He is separate.
I disagree , I think we are all of the same stuff. Collective conciousness, the uncontainable driving force of nature ... one clear voice. That is what lives inside and outside of us.
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MikeHD: Just a quick hit:
Even if there were a historians (like Flavius Josephus, Philo of Alexandria, or The History of the Church-Ecclesiastical History by Eusebius of Caesarea). You would not accept them.
Even if there were a historians (like Flavius Josephus, Philo of Alexandria, or The History of the Church-Ecclesiastical History by Eusebius of Caesarea). You would not accept them.
A presumption of my acceptance or lack thereof mike
if they are in fact true accountings of actual god sent jesuses (saviors) I would. There are many accountings of people jumping on crosses and dying on their swords, being burned at the stake for a cause. (drama and dogma) To accept that they (savoirs throughout our history) are more than mortal would be less than circumspect without your thoughts to 'test' the validity of rising christs and other such Brians ... sorry for the monty python reference, I do love Brian!------ This thread is Archived ------
MikeHD: What?
If H2O is water, man uses water, then man is H2O ?
If H2O is water, man uses water, then man is H2O ?
MAN is indeed water Mike, about 76 % say scientists, doctors and the like.(maybe its not 76%, I forget the exact amount) Proveable, irrefutable evidence. thankyou dude!
NEXT!
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MikeHD wrote
"I have even read some things written a long time ago by the likes of Socrates, Voltaire, Mark Twain, and Albert Einstein. I only have one real problem with all of it…
it’s all the same old thing just repeated over and over again. There is no new revelation or evidence there. You can trace back all those thoughts back to when man originally started to rebel against God."
Einstein - same old thing repeated over and over again! no new revelation or evidence here!. It is easy read Einstein Mike, but can you honestly tell me you understood his theories of relativity
(Have only been using this one week so am still learning about quotes etc.)
"I have even read some things written a long time ago by the likes of Socrates, Voltaire, Mark Twain, and Albert Einstein. I only have one real problem with all of it…
it’s all the same old thing just repeated over and over again. There is no new revelation or evidence there. You can trace back all those thoughts back to when man originally started to rebel against God."
Einstein - same old thing repeated over and over again! no new revelation or evidence here!. It is easy read Einstein Mike, but can you honestly tell me you understood his theories of relativity
(Have only been using this one week so am still learning about quotes etc.)
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patrickthomas:
(Have only been using this one week so am still learning about quotes etc.)
(Have only been using this one week so am still learning about quotes etc.)
to the top right of everyone's post you'll see the option buttons to quote or reply patrick.
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Zeph 3:17 He will rejoice over you with singing
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Jer 33:3 Call to me and I will answer you and tell you great and unsearchable things you do not know.
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John 17:2 Because in Jesus I showed my love for you .
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gangel: Zeph 3:17 He will rejoice over you with singing
hope he comes in digital high definition with bose headphones and sounds like Joe Walsh.
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gangel: Jer 33:3 Call to me and I will answer you and tell you great and unsearchable things you do not know.
" If you want to join the People's Front of Judea, you have to really hate the Romans. "
life of brain 2:4:14
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BnaturAl: " If you want to join the People's Front of Judea, you have to really hate the Romans. "
life of brain 2:4:14
life of brain 2:4:14
Jer 31:3 I have loved you with an everlasting love. /No,Not you
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But God
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