GOD V RELIGION ( Archived) (402)

Feb 18, 2008 2:27 PM CST GOD V RELIGION
Aries01
Aries01Aries01Kent, England UK47 Threads 4 Polls 2,732 Posts
EastbayRay: That God exists has always been, to me, a matter common sense.


thumbs up

Hiya Ray... wave long time no see grin wave
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Feb 18, 2008 2:30 PM CST GOD V RELIGION
BnaturAl: Just show me Mike... beyond theory and theology... show me the spoon. All I ask, without scripture that says "see me! or else you'll be in hell"


There was a verse that was used nearly a century ago to prove that the Bible couldn't have been divinely inspired. "But the day of the Lord will come like a thief in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up." 2nd Peter 3:10 "How could there be a fire big enough to burn the whole world? Silly fisherman!" It took over two more generations for science to catch up to what God had spoken through Peter, that an atomic reaction could actually melt the basic building blocks of matter itself. God was prophesying how the world would end. In fact, two verses later we find these words, "...the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat!" (vs. 12) Do you know what the word "destroy" is? It's a Greek word that literally means to untie. That's an atomic physics statement from a fisherman!

Can the bible accurately predict the future? Of course it can. God can arrange the situations and circumstances of history to bring about patterns laid down before the foundation of the world. The outline of many of these patterns is revealed in the Bible. There are about 3,856 verses directly or indirectly concerned with prophecy in the bible - about one verse in six tells of future events! God's challenge to the world is "Prove Me now - I am the Lord... I will speak, and the word that I speak shall come to pass." (See Jer. 28:9; Ezek. 12:25, 24:14) Buddhists, Confucianists, and Muslims have their own sacred writings, but in them the element of prophecy is obviously absent. The destruction of Tyre, the invasion of Jerusalem, the fall of Babylon and Rome - each were accurately predicted in the Bible and fulfilled to the smallest details. In the brief life of Jesus alone we see over 300 fulfilled prophecies. The odds that these would all coincide by accident in one person are laughable. By the laws of chance, the conservative odds of even just 48 of those prophecies being fulfilled by one man are one in 10 x 10^157. (That's 1 followed by 157 zeros!!!) Let me try to give you an idea of how immense this number is. We'll take a very small object, let's say an electron. (Electrons are so small that if you lined them up, it would take 2½ quadrillion of them to equal one inch.) Now let's go back to our figure of 10 x 10^157. If you tried to put this many electrons into a big pile, it would be 10,000,000,000 times lager than the universe as we know it - which scientists calculate to be 6,000,000,000 light-years across. (A light-year is the distance that light will travel in one year, moving at the speed of 186,000 miles per second.) Now, take just one electron out and color it red. Stir it back into this pile for a hundred thousand years with all the others. Then blindfold a man and send him in to pick it out - first time! Impossible? These would be the same odds that one man would live and die according to only 48 of the prophecies about the Messiah, if it were only an accident. The Scriptures specifically predict events and happenings that are as modern as tomorrow's news release.

You can put any test you like on this book and nothing is even in the same category, not even in the same class. It's not just a book - it is God who has spoken in history, and that's why He says that His word is "living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword" Hebrews 4:12 Only the 66 books of the scriptures bear this divine seal. No other work of man in any language even faintly resembles the intricate structure and design of the bible. The fact remains - only an infinite mind could have devised this book of books.


The end of part 2


yawn Got to keep going...
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Feb 18, 2008 2:31 PM CST GOD V RELIGION
EastbayRay
EastbayRayEastbayRayLimassol, Cyprus10 Threads 1 Polls 781 Posts
BnaturAl: Ray ... ? s'tat u?


T’is indeed the one and only demonic me.devil You've become quite the voice, old boy. I’ve been busy taking advanced driving lessons and studying police Roadcraft theory, reading the sonnets of Elizabeth Barrette Browning before bed time and chasing some skirt on the side.

It flees, you chase it.wine
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Feb 18, 2008 2:37 PM CST GOD V RELIGION
BnaturAl
BnaturAlBnaturAlSarnia, Ontario Canada107 Threads 7 Polls 6,811 Posts
MikeHD: And so the early sciences grew. Now, listen to what God said. Remember, this wasn't written in the last hundred years, or even the last thousand. This comes from over 2500 years ago... "Have you not known? Have you not heard? ... Have you not understood from the foundations of the earth? It is He that sits upon the circle of the earth." Isaiah 40:21-22 The word "circle" is the word "sphere" in Hebrew. Also, "He stretches out the north over empty space, and hangs the earth on nothing." Job 26:7 Well, so much for elephants! There are many other astounding scientific facts in the bible, presented centuries before it became part of man's "knowledge."
.

Theory can 'become' verified Mike. Einstein says the universe is moving outward at a pace faster than the speed of light. I accept the possibility but only the possibility. Will it someday be verified? also possible.
"Hangs the earth on nothing"? Even space has some mass, certainly doesn't qualify as 'nothing', not to mention forces of gravity and such. So part of the theory fails under scrutiny Mike. Theory is like that. some works, some doesn't.
In response to: Many of the Eastern thought forms use bible verses. They use it to capture people's hearts. That's because the bible is so powerful you can't ignore it. God has built life into His Word. The strong cults rip it off.


Shakepsear captures people's hearts Mike, (hell Die Hard captured my heart)people use that as well. Why? to capture people's emotions. Why would they do that? That is the real question. For control? is my theory.
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Feb 18, 2008 2:40 PM CST GOD V RELIGION
BnaturAl
BnaturAlBnaturAlSarnia, Ontario Canada107 Threads 7 Polls 6,811 Posts
EastbayRay:

It flees, you chase it.


hmmm not my cuppa Ray, but I understand the hi-jinks you ascribe to in intellectual male/female persuits.laugh
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Feb 18, 2008 2:46 PM CST GOD V RELIGION
EastbayRay
EastbayRayEastbayRayLimassol, Cyprus10 Threads 1 Polls 781 Posts
Aries01: Hiya Ray... long time no see


wave Hi Aries - that’s a pretty new picture of you. I see Riya is back! And Détente (or is it an impostor?)wave
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Feb 18, 2008 2:48 PM CST GOD V RELIGION
EastbayRay
EastbayRayEastbayRayLimassol, Cyprus10 Threads 1 Polls 781 Posts
BnaturAl: Theory can 'become' verified Mike. Einstein says the universe is moving outward at a pace faster than the speed of light. I accept the possibility but only the possibility. Will it someday be verified? also possible.
"Hangs the earth on nothing"? Even space has some mass, certainly doesn't qualify as 'nothing', not to mention forces of gravity and such. So part of the theory fails under scrutiny Mike. Theory is like that. some works, some doesn't.Shakepsear captures people's hearts Mike, (hell Die Hard captured my heart)people use that as well. Why? to capture people's emotions. Why would they do that? That is the real question. For control? is my theory.


indeed . . . devil grin
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Feb 18, 2008 2:56 PM CST GOD V RELIGION
BnaturAl: What does not following god have to do with being fallable? Nothing. And IF your response is that man chooses to be fallable in choosing, why would he create this infallability to choose so wrongly? makes sense?


To be able to choose what is right, you have to be able to choose wrong don't you? Or it isn't choice at all.

BnaturAl: Employers are controlists Mike, that's where your arguement fails. A better way to make them money is high on their list. In fact a boss who has no control over their employees won't be a boss for long. you see.

Good boss, bad boss is another distractive element of the overall question There are healthy constructive ways to control just as there are unhealthy destructive ways to control others, but both are control. MAN knows of these controls Mike and some use those facts and psychologies well, others do not.
Still MAN doing it, not god.


You must have had some real bad bosses. Many of my bosses looked out for me. They helped me grow and develope into a good worker. They established trust in our relationship, and encouraged me to keep doing it better. I became (in most cases) a very productive employee, and in return I helped my boss make more money. I feel bad for the working experiences that would make you look at the workplace in such a manner. A manager has to control his people to try to get the work done, but a leader empowers his people to accomplish what we all want in the life. A job well done .

BnaturAl: Umm Mike .. what relationship with a creator, the unmade relationship?(because I still haven't seen him/her/it by any evidence, hence unmade relationship- or the one created by prophets of the bible(MAN) repenned, edited and published by another MAN.
If MAN is MAN, then how can He be arrogant? "Who do you think you are, MAN?"... "Well yes, I am"

arrogance is used by man Mike. Does a god use it. I don't know, dont know any gods to this point, but every aspect you attribute to god is also one of MAN.I disagree , I think we are all of the same stuff. Collective conciousness, the uncontainable driving force of nature ... one clear voice. That is what lives inside and outside of us.


Man is just a man. How can you be arrogant when you are just claiming to be a man? It's when you claim to be more than a man that arrogance is introduced. We are not God, even though we think we are at times.

And do you claim all things are made up from the same "stuff"? Even the spiritual? When a person dies, where does the 21 grams go? What about angels? If we are all the same, can I choose to defy the laws of physics?
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Feb 18, 2008 3:06 PM CST GOD V RELIGION
BnaturAl
BnaturAlBnaturAlSarnia, Ontario Canada107 Threads 7 Polls 6,811 Posts
MikeHD: There was a verse that was used nearly a century ago to prove that the Bible couldn't have been divinely inspired. "But the day of the Lord will come like a thief in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up." 2nd Peter 3:10 "How could there be a fire big enough to burn the whole world? Silly fisherman!" It took over two more generations for science to catch up to what God had spoken through Peter, that an atomic reaction could actually melt the basic building blocks of matter itself. God was prophesying how the world would end. In fact, two verses later we find these words, "...the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat!" (vs. 12) Do you know what the word "destroy" is? It's a Greek word that literally means to untie. That's an atomic physics statement from a fisherman!
...


You're doing the Nostradamus thing, finding evidence post facto. I do not see a destroyed earth much less the heavens dude. Comon.. oh wait my feet are hot! I better get out of the Apollo rolling on the floor laughing (sorry, sun god reference)

Why wouldn't he (for me its they, being men) use the terms 'atoms' and 'nuclear' or 'fision' or 'atomic reaction'. I would unless I didn't know what they were. professor

sorry have to run for a bit ... later
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Feb 18, 2008 3:19 PM CST GOD V RELIGION
BnaturAl
BnaturAlBnaturAlSarnia, Ontario Canada107 Threads 7 Polls 6,811 Posts
MikeHD: I walked right into that one LOL

ok,

Car is an automobile, man uses automobile, therefore man is car?

There, get around that one


Failure again Mike .. not all men use automobiles professor
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Feb 18, 2008 3:26 PM CST GOD V RELIGION
Aries01
Aries01Aries01Kent, England UK47 Threads 4 Polls 2,732 Posts
EastbayRay: Hi Aries - that’s a pretty new picture of you. I see Riya is back! And Détente (or is it an impostor?)


Thanks.. like ur picture too... people u know?.. good to see ya back hug... and Riya and Detente (or is it???) back laugh


wine
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Feb 18, 2008 3:34 PM CST GOD V RELIGION
EastbayRay
EastbayRayEastbayRayLimassol, Cyprus10 Threads 1 Polls 781 Posts
Aries01: Hi... there has been a lot of threads here recently which have had the effect of blurring the line between God and Religion.. two different things... Religion is manmade.. and most obviously flawed to its core.. God (for those who believe, including myself) is above and beyond all that...

What are ur views?


There was once this girl, Aries, and when she was seven her mother entrusted her with the keys to her car - in the way of a psychological calmative, i believe . . . and she SO wanted to live up to the responsibility she had been given, to BE responsible, and above all to do so because it was her MAMMY; but - poor girl - she lost them in the field behind the house where she was horsing around, as it were, with sofa cushions - the keys forgotten. They were lost and chaos ensued: A search for these . . . LOST keys, which SHE had lost. And the distraught little girl ran down the road in her pyjamas (not the pink one’s with the little tiger on) and she lay in the grass in a field staring up at the sky and apologising to God . . .

And the apology was accepted. laugh

Sometimes God can’t help doing what He KNOWS He ought not to…

Yes, this God has nothing to do with Religion.

Religion in all its manifestations is a misrepresentation of God - as only it can be.

But a God there IS.

No further proof is needed beyond what is immediately in front of you at any given moment. It is the logically coherent miracle of naked existence of which we are a part. It’s called Life. And this is just its beginning . . .
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Feb 18, 2008 3:37 PM CST GOD V RELIGION
Detente
DetenteDetenteNorth West, England UK48 Threads 1 Polls 2,742 Posts
EastbayRay: Sometimes God can’t help doing what He KNOWS He ought not to…

Yes, this God has nothing to do with Religion.

Religion in all its manifestations is a misrepresentation of God - as only it can be.

But a God there IS.

No further proof is needed beyond what is immediately in front of you at any given moment. It is the logically coherent miracle of naked existence of which we are a part. It’s called Life. And this is just its beginning . . .


Too simple Ray...not on the agenda...unpallatable.doh
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Feb 18, 2008 3:41 PM CST GOD V RELIGION
EastbayRay
EastbayRayEastbayRayLimassol, Cyprus10 Threads 1 Polls 781 Posts
Detente: Too simple Ray...not on the agenda...unpallatable.


Maybe it's just simple enough to be a true story . . .

What do you think? . . .

my wise friend . . .
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Feb 18, 2008 3:42 PM CST GOD V RELIGION
BnaturAl: Shakepsear captures people's hearts Mike, (hell Die Hard captured my heart)people use that as well. Why? to capture people's emotions. Why would they do that? That is the real question. For control? is my theory.




Why would Shakespeare want to control people? Was Shakespeare part of a plot to take over the word? Look out Da Vinci Code!

If someone used the St. Crispin’s day speech in Henry V to stir an army to do evil, is that the fault of Shakespeare? Then why blame the atrocities done by those claiming to be Christians on God? He didn't tell them to do it.

The bible is just a description of reality from a divine viewpoint. It just describes what happens. It is God's word to us. Taken the wrong way, it can be used to do much evil. It is simple enough for a child to understand, and yet complex enough for man to spend his whole life studying all its riches.

All I know is this:

"Jesus love me this I know
for the bible tells me so"
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Feb 18, 2008 3:46 PM CST GOD V RELIGION
BnaturAl: Failure again Mike .. not all men use automobiles


Come on Al, that was a cheap out, and unbecoming of you roll eyes
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Feb 18, 2008 3:48 PM CST GOD V RELIGION
EastbayRay
EastbayRayEastbayRayLimassol, Cyprus10 Threads 1 Polls 781 Posts
Detente: Too simple Ray...not on the agenda...unpallatable.


What do you think Aries?
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Feb 18, 2008 4:04 PM CST GOD V RELIGION
riyablossom
riyablossomriyablossomsomewhere, Pennsylvania USA184 Threads 18 Polls 11,244 Posts
EastbayRay: What do you think Aries?


Is that you ??????

Been wondering where you've been ..hug

God .. this feels at home ... hi Ray , Aries , Bnatural , Trish , Detente ( Mr HS professor) , Mike and everyone .. cool
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Feb 18, 2008 4:06 PM CST GOD V RELIGION
Detente
DetenteDetenteNorth West, England UK48 Threads 1 Polls 2,742 Posts
riyablossom: Is that you ??????

Been wondering where you've been ..

God .. this feels at home ... hi Ray , Aries , Bnatural , Trish , Detente ( Mr HS ) , Mike and everyone ..


thumbs up

Got my proper title right AT LAST!wink

rolling on the floor laughing
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Feb 18, 2008 4:10 PM CST GOD V RELIGION
Detente
DetenteDetenteNorth West, England UK48 Threads 1 Polls 2,742 Posts
EastbayRay: Maybe it's just simple enough to be a true story . . .

What do you think? . . .

my wise friend . . .



Sorry for the delay in my reply Ray.cheers

We've created a world full of intricacy...a world overbearingly complicated...it's slowly suffocating us all.

It would seem that the majority are intent on exploring every possible avenue in an attempt to disprove what it's loathe to consider a liklihood.

But logic dictates...
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