I Dont have the patience to read the entire thread and i stay away from this topic cos there is a lot of " i wont's " and " thats dirty " and " morals and ethics " and assumptions and assumptions always.
The little i would say is : Assuming we understand everybody is an adult and has the ability to " think " a lot of situations in life arent exactly like what we describe in 2 dimension here. In reality, there are so many seen and unseen factors apart from what the 2 people or 3 people see or realise.
Nope !! Its NOT justifying anything.
All i am saying is lets not make someone's situation a code for " moral judgement " about them nor can we talk of things with absolutism in such cases. Though we are adults with a mind not everyone can make rational and ' ethical ' decisions all the time. If we could, we would be close to utopia. There is no excuse to being allowed to make mistakes in one area while not in another.
Men cheat and so do women , men steal other's spouses and so do women , there are innocent men as well as women , there are both in unhappy marriages and bad situations , there are those with no option for divorce whatsoever ( for whatever reasons ) ... so coming to say ... if we are going to crucify them based on a fact .. well a fact is a fact .. but real life has a third and even 4th dimension .. time as well as human emotion.
What matters at the end ... if one is able to learn from the mistake and rise over it and that one can sleep with a conscience which doesnt hurt .. there is still hope.
Again, I'll state, never say never. A lifetime is long.
By the way, just in case anybody cares, alimony DOES exist in the state of Ohio. It's now called Spousal Support. If one person in the divorce makes significantly more than the other, it can be ordered by the court -- generally for a period of time of 1 year for every 2 years of marriage. I know this because I am paying it now!
But as far as the decisions people make are concerned , i still think we cannot put all 100% cases in to absolutism codes.
I agree, not all cases. but some cases we can.
Example.. how apt would you be to become a good friend of a guy, when he tells you " I slept with a lot of women when I was married because my wife couldnt please me" ?
rasgumby: My point is. I don't cheat and wouldnt, I have better control than that. But it made me mad as hell for women to hit on me that knew I was married at the time.
I know how badly I would be hurt if my partner cheated and I will not cause anyone else that kind of pain.
But to buy anyones BS lines or ignore the truth to sleep with them is wrong. Honestly.. How would you feel if you found out your husband was screwing another gal? Do to others as you would want them to do to you.
Myself. I don't trust any cheaters and there is no place in my life for them.
I know what you are saying Ras and have been there, my childrens father was a man tart and could sell sand to the Arabs - it was such a painful experience for me and a huge part of my growing up - consequently, I learnt from that experience quite a lot about integrity and overall, the difference between good and bad intent. I found that bad intent would lead a person to sleep with any person for the reason of getting their rocks off while 'good intent' was quite something else.
My innocence and everything else were at stake during this particular learning curve and they all met the sky the night I saw him wrapped in my good friends arms - I would never do this to anybody but, what I have learned is that; 1. not everybody acts from the same principles and 2. no one set of principles suit all folks 3. it sure does hurt lots to see the person you love in the arms of another 4. we mustnt carry these experiences into our futures 5. judgmentalism is the easy option
rasgumby: I agree, not all cases. but some cases we can.
Example.. how apt would you be to become a good friend of a guy, when he tells you " I slept with a lot of women when I was married because my wife couldnt please me" ?
a guy ike that - I would laugh him out of town - simple as - emotionally inept and probably useless in bed too
rasgumby: I agree, not all cases. but some cases we can.
rasgumby: Example.. how apt would you be to become a good friend of a guy, when he tells you " I slept with a lot of women when I was married because my wife couldnt please me" ?
trish123: I know what you are saying Ras and have been there, my childrens father was a man tart and could sell sand to the Arabs - it was such a painful experience for me and a huge part of my growing up - consequently, I learnt from that experience quite a lot about integrity and overall, the difference between good and bad intent. I found that bad intent would lead a person to sleep with any person for the reason of getting their rocks off while 'good intent' was quite something else.
My innocence and everything else were at stake during this particular learning curve and they all met the sky the night I saw him wrapped in my good friends arms - I would never do this to anybody but, what I have learned is that; 1. not everybody acts from the same principles and 2. no one set of principles suit all folks 3. it sure does hurt lots to see the person you love in the arms of another 4. we mustnt carry these experiences into our futures 5. judgmentalism is the easy option
also your words from the other thread
In response to: - round about the time I decided to have an affair with a man who I knew was married from the outset.
He was one of these guys who was staying there for the children - instinctively my reaction was to scoff at that but with a bit of research I soon found out it was not only true, but that this man had a very deep unhappiness.
I also am no angel, My first marriage failed partially because I was 17 and drank like a fish. we were both to blame for the failure. But I was stupid to get married so young. Kids having kids is not too smart.
no, absolutely no need to let it ride and I am happy you have brought the two together as i was tired of them being on seperate threads
I will try to condense it as much as possible...........
Then, as now, I would not take the word of some guy saying they were staying with some woman fo the sake of the children but all the same needed a friend - luckily for me, my friend who is on this site and goes by the name of Bodleing, had been a friend of the guy in question for many years - he confirmed all my queries and they were further confirmed by another friend of ours, John, who had also known the people in question for at least 20 yrs. - this whole tale goes back to about 1976 when Haydn first came into all of our lives - Bodleing and John were already friends of my childrens father and I.
18 yrs down the line, after never involving myself in these things, I found myself alone and in at least monthly contact with the guy in question - I had picked up bits and pieces in these yrs but kept my own council as well as my distance - but the day came when we faced each other head to head so to speak, he knew my story cos they ahd all been business partners for so long (by this time)
so.......
I had split with my childrens father after lots of problems, probably the least amongst them was the night I saw him wrapped around Christine who I mentioned had been one of my good friends - and this is what I meant when I said I would never do this to anyone.............
Haydn and I got together as two very bruised and literally, 'battered' people who made each others lives bearable in the short time we had to give to each other.............
Drop Bodleing a line, he will confirm all I have said............
Trish, We just have to agree to disagree. If they guy wanted an affair, should have divorced his wife.
even if she was screwing around because he was almost never home ( if that may be the case) still.. Two wrongs don't make a right. But to say he was staying for the kids, yet he was almost never home....
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The little i would say is :
Assuming we understand everybody is an adult and has the ability to " think " a lot of situations in life arent exactly like what we describe in 2 dimension here. In reality, there are so many seen and unseen factors apart from what the 2 people or 3 people see or realise.
Nope !! Its NOT justifying anything.
All i am saying is lets not make someone's situation a code for " moral judgement " about them nor can we talk of things with absolutism in such cases. Though we are adults with a mind not everyone can make rational and ' ethical ' decisions all the time. If we could, we would be close to utopia. There is no excuse to being allowed to make mistakes in one area while not in another.
Men cheat and so do women , men steal other's spouses and so do women , there are innocent men as well as women , there are both in unhappy marriages and bad situations , there are those with no option for divorce whatsoever ( for whatever reasons ) ... so coming to say ... if we are going to crucify them based on a fact .. well a fact is a fact .. but real life has a third and even 4th dimension .. time as well as human emotion.
What matters at the end ... if one is able to learn from the mistake and rise over it and that one can sleep with a conscience which doesnt hurt .. there is still hope.