Ireland -- What would you do??? (68)
Tanaiste: Ok .. so everyone has an opinion (me included) but..
If you were Brian Cowen what would you do?
I guarantee to email him the best suggestions ...
Be nice!
If you were Brian Cowen what would you do?
I guarantee to email him the best suggestions ...
Be nice!
Nationalise Waterford crystal for starters.
Pay Cuts won't get us out of this mess - in fact they will make it worse for the Ordinary Joe. Here's why.. if you take Ordinary Joe, with an 'average' mortgage, he's got a few quid more in his pocket over the last few months, thanks to the interest rate changes. If he drives a car, the cost of a tank of petrol has fallen by at least a tenner.. Both of those reductions have put a couple of hundred yoyos a month back into Ordinary Joe's pocket.
With me so far? OK..
Now, unless I've had my head in a bucket for the past six months, every second purveyor of Goods and Services in this Country is bemoaning the fact that people are not spending money. Now, take Ordinary Joe, with say €250 a month extra in his pocket.. it's only simple logic, is it not, to assume that he might spend some of it - €20 here.. €30 there.. €50 somewhere else.. even if he spent half of it.. that's €125 put back into the economy.
Now, as they say.. do the math..
If we assume that there are two million or so people working.. don't argue its a nice round figure and I like them.. then, by my calculation, that's €250 MILLION a month gone straight back into the economy. In a year, that's Three Billion. That, in any mans language, will support an awful lot of jobs.
However, if the Turlough O'Sullivans of this World have their way, Ordinary Joe will have his wages cut. The few bob he got back from lower interest rates, etc. will be gone.. and with it, his little bit of increased spending power!
Surely it's a no brainer?
By all means, lets have a pay freeze.. lets even cancel the National Wage deal for a year.. even eighteen months.. but for goodness sake, lets not cut pay. It might make Accounting Sense.. but it makes no Common Sense at all! It seems that Brian Cowen is baulking on pay cuts.
With me so far? OK..
Now, unless I've had my head in a bucket for the past six months, every second purveyor of Goods and Services in this Country is bemoaning the fact that people are not spending money. Now, take Ordinary Joe, with say €250 a month extra in his pocket.. it's only simple logic, is it not, to assume that he might spend some of it - €20 here.. €30 there.. €50 somewhere else.. even if he spent half of it.. that's €125 put back into the economy.
Now, as they say.. do the math..
If we assume that there are two million or so people working.. don't argue its a nice round figure and I like them.. then, by my calculation, that's €250 MILLION a month gone straight back into the economy. In a year, that's Three Billion. That, in any mans language, will support an awful lot of jobs.
However, if the Turlough O'Sullivans of this World have their way, Ordinary Joe will have his wages cut. The few bob he got back from lower interest rates, etc. will be gone.. and with it, his little bit of increased spending power!
Surely it's a no brainer?
By all means, lets have a pay freeze.. lets even cancel the National Wage deal for a year.. even eighteen months.. but for goodness sake, lets not cut pay. It might make Accounting Sense.. but it makes no Common Sense at all! It seems that Brian Cowen is baulking on pay cuts.
Take over as caretaker managers of the banks, do a full audit and investigation into how they have come to be in the situation. Stop ALL bonuses/pay increases/perks for anyone on earnings over 100k.
Sell the ministerial cars and put the proceeds into education/training for the unemployed. Make ministers get themselves to work, find their own parking and pay for it themselves.
Cut back on meetings/trips abroad. There should be no need for "factfinding missions" to places like Japan. EU meetings that can be of benefit to the country are one thing but looking at how things are done in companies the far side of the world are really a waste of money.
These are just some ideas.
Sell the ministerial cars and put the proceeds into education/training for the unemployed. Make ministers get themselves to work, find their own parking and pay for it themselves.
Cut back on meetings/trips abroad. There should be no need for "factfinding missions" to places like Japan. EU meetings that can be of benefit to the country are one thing but looking at how things are done in companies the far side of the world are really a waste of money.
These are just some ideas.
corkguy3: Pay Cuts won't get us out of this mess - in fact they will make it worse for the Ordinary Joe. Here's why.. if you take Ordinary Joe, with an 'average' mortgage, he's got a few quid more in his pocket over the last few months, thanks to the interest rate changes. If he drives a car, the cost of a tank of petrol has fallen by at least a tenner.. Both of those reductions have put a couple of hundred yoyos a month back into Ordinary Joe's pocket.
With me so far? OK..
Now, unless I've had my head in a bucket for the past six months, every second purveyor of Goods and Services in this Country is bemoaning the fact that people are not spending money. Now, take Ordinary Joe, with say €250 a month extra in his pocket.. it's only simple logic, is it not, to assume that he might spend some of it - €20 here.. €30 there.. €50 somewhere else.. even if he spent half of it.. that's €125 put back into the economy.
Now, as they say.. do the math..
If we assume that there are two million or so people working.. don't argue its a nice round figure and I like them.. then, by my calculation, that's €250 MILLION a month gone straight back into the economy. In a year, that's Three Billion. That, in any mans language, will support an awful lot of jobs.
However, if the Turlough O'Sullivans of this World have their way, Ordinary Joe will have his wages cut. The few bob he got back from lower interest rates, etc. will be gone.. and with it, his little bit of increased spending power!
Surely it's a no brainer?
By all means, lets have a pay freeze.. lets even cancel the National Wage deal for a year.. even eighteen months.. but for goodness sake, lets not cut pay. It might make Accounting Sense.. but it makes no Common Sense at all! It seems that Brian Cowen is baulking on pay cuts.
With me so far? OK..
Now, unless I've had my head in a bucket for the past six months, every second purveyor of Goods and Services in this Country is bemoaning the fact that people are not spending money. Now, take Ordinary Joe, with say €250 a month extra in his pocket.. it's only simple logic, is it not, to assume that he might spend some of it - €20 here.. €30 there.. €50 somewhere else.. even if he spent half of it.. that's €125 put back into the economy.
Now, as they say.. do the math..
If we assume that there are two million or so people working.. don't argue its a nice round figure and I like them.. then, by my calculation, that's €250 MILLION a month gone straight back into the economy. In a year, that's Three Billion. That, in any mans language, will support an awful lot of jobs.
However, if the Turlough O'Sullivans of this World have their way, Ordinary Joe will have his wages cut. The few bob he got back from lower interest rates, etc. will be gone.. and with it, his little bit of increased spending power!
Surely it's a no brainer?
By all means, lets have a pay freeze.. lets even cancel the National Wage deal for a year.. even eighteen months.. but for goodness sake, lets not cut pay. It might make Accounting Sense.. but it makes no Common Sense at all! It seems that Brian Cowen is baulking on pay cuts.
That actually makes sense. Why do we have an idiot like Lenihan as finance minister when we could have Corkguy?
corkguy3: Pay Cuts won't get us out of this mess - in fact they will make it worse for the Ordinary Joe. Here's why.. if you take Ordinary Joe, with an 'average' mortgage, he's got a few quid more in his pocket over the last few months, thanks to the interest rate changes. If he drives a car, the cost of a tank of petrol has fallen by at least a tenner.. Both of those reductions have put a couple of hundred yoyos a month back into Ordinary Joe's pocket.
With me so far? OK..
Now, unless I've had my head in a bucket for the past six months, every second purveyor of Goods and Services in this Country is bemoaning the fact that people are not spending money. Now, take Ordinary Joe, with say €250 a month extra in his pocket.. it's only simple logic, is it not, to assume that he might spend some of it - €20 here.. €30 there.. €50 somewhere else.. even if he spent half of it.. that's €125 put back into the economy.
Now, as they say.. do the math..
If we assume that there are two million or so people working.. don't argue its a nice round figure and I like them.. then, by my calculation, that's €250 MILLION a month gone straight back into the economy. In a year, that's Three Billion. That, in any mans language, will support an awful lot of jobs.
However, if the Turlough O'Sullivans of this World have their way, Ordinary Joe will have his wages cut. The few bob he got back from lower interest rates, etc. will be gone.. and with it, his little bit of increased spending power!
Surely it's a no brainer?
By all means, lets have a pay freeze.. lets even cancel the National Wage deal for a year.. even eighteen months.. but for goodness sake, lets not cut pay. It might make Accounting Sense.. but it makes no Common Sense at all! It seems that Brian Cowen is baulking on pay cuts.
With me so far? OK..
Now, unless I've had my head in a bucket for the past six months, every second purveyor of Goods and Services in this Country is bemoaning the fact that people are not spending money. Now, take Ordinary Joe, with say €250 a month extra in his pocket.. it's only simple logic, is it not, to assume that he might spend some of it - €20 here.. €30 there.. €50 somewhere else.. even if he spent half of it.. that's €125 put back into the economy.
Now, as they say.. do the math..
If we assume that there are two million or so people working.. don't argue its a nice round figure and I like them.. then, by my calculation, that's €250 MILLION a month gone straight back into the economy. In a year, that's Three Billion. That, in any mans language, will support an awful lot of jobs.
However, if the Turlough O'Sullivans of this World have their way, Ordinary Joe will have his wages cut. The few bob he got back from lower interest rates, etc. will be gone.. and with it, his little bit of increased spending power!
Surely it's a no brainer?
By all means, lets have a pay freeze.. lets even cancel the National Wage deal for a year.. even eighteen months.. but for goodness sake, lets not cut pay. It might make Accounting Sense.. but it makes no Common Sense at all! It seems that Brian Cowen is baulking on pay cuts.
Excellent.
I said the same on ecos thread .... But you say it sooo much better!!!!
What can i say 
I think there is some sense in pay cuts, certainly not across the board though it will need to be targeted. I think there can be no argument with pay freezes in the public sector while public borrowings and spending are so far out of whack. I'd be cautious about encouraging public spending too much as the last thing that needs to happen is that inflation increases.
The banking system needs massive overhaul with far more stringent controls and finance bills directing the way in which domestic business is conducted. The culture of premature bonuses and payouts based on churning needs to be stamped out. This can only be done by enforcing existing financial fraud legislation along with new legislation to tackle undesirable practices like shorting and many hedging practices along with other artificial financial instruments all of which simply don't have a sound financial basis. Given that taxpayers are now carrying the weight of stops for the banks there also needs to be a social aspect to the overhaul - family dwellings with mortgages need to be taken out of risk from repossession. However, I'd say leave the developers to handle the consequences of their greed - lessons need to be learned.
Despite the lack of money available there still needs to be capital investment as the current monoculture that considers only the Pale needs to be addressed with decentralisation across the board. That means developing businesses preferentially beyond the pale and ensuring that the necessary physical and technical infrastructure is brought up to standard.
Wow, I'm an opinionated so and so, better leave it there :)
The banking system needs massive overhaul with far more stringent controls and finance bills directing the way in which domestic business is conducted. The culture of premature bonuses and payouts based on churning needs to be stamped out. This can only be done by enforcing existing financial fraud legislation along with new legislation to tackle undesirable practices like shorting and many hedging practices along with other artificial financial instruments all of which simply don't have a sound financial basis. Given that taxpayers are now carrying the weight of stops for the banks there also needs to be a social aspect to the overhaul - family dwellings with mortgages need to be taken out of risk from repossession. However, I'd say leave the developers to handle the consequences of their greed - lessons need to be learned.
Despite the lack of money available there still needs to be capital investment as the current monoculture that considers only the Pale needs to be addressed with decentralisation across the board. That means developing businesses preferentially beyond the pale and ensuring that the necessary physical and technical infrastructure is brought up to standard.
Wow, I'm an opinionated so and so, better leave it there :)
Ciotog.
I am NOT getting into the whole paycuts thing with you cos I will end up saying something I won't regret. I am angry enough as it is at being scapegoated.
The rest of it...can you translate into plain english for us mere mortals? Please?
Then I can decide whether to agree or not.
I am NOT getting into the whole paycuts thing with you cos I will end up saying something I won't regret. I am angry enough as it is at being scapegoated.
The rest of it...can you translate into plain english for us mere mortals? Please?
Then I can decide whether to agree or not.
ciotog: I don't understand why you see it as being targeted at you?
I didn't say you were targeting it at me. The Taoiseach and Minister for Finance are targeting me. I am a civil servant.
You did not ask me to take a paycut but you obviously agree with it.
I have discussed similar topics with you before so I know you don't like civil/public servants. That is why I am not getting into the paycuts thing with you.
Yep, I'm voting for you mate 
can I add that we should all buy Irish
then the € that we have will stay in our economy and not emigrate.
If you shop up north the €£ leaves our country, if you sent € to Poland it goes there.
Shop local, keep our € going around in our economy, this keeps us in jobs and more people been paid.
Shop local, keep jobs in your community.
I am 100% self sufficient in food, Ireland can be the same why the hell are we importing french beans from Kenya a country on the verge of famine because their government cant handle their own economy, so Mr Kenya sells his beans gets paid nothing for them and gets no services supplied by his government, hes used land he could have used to grow food for his family or for selling in his local market place, where he would directly benefit from his own work. Mr Ireland can grow his own beans, giving a person in Ireland a job and we cut down on oil miles, boost our own transport industry and local shops.
can I add that we should all buy Irish
then the € that we have will stay in our economy and not emigrate. If you shop up north the €£ leaves our country, if you sent € to Poland it goes there.
Shop local, keep our € going around in our economy, this keeps us in jobs and more people been paid.
Shop local, keep jobs in your community.
I am 100% self sufficient in food, Ireland can be the same why the hell are we importing french beans from Kenya a country on the verge of famine because their government cant handle their own economy, so Mr Kenya sells his beans gets paid nothing for them and gets no services supplied by his government, hes used land he could have used to grow food for his family or for selling in his local market place, where he would directly benefit from his own work. Mr Ireland can grow his own beans, giving a person in Ireland a job and we cut down on oil miles, boost our own transport industry and local shops.
Ecoprincess: Yep, I'm voting for you mate
can I add that we should all buy Irish then the € that we have will stay in our economy and not emigrate.
If you shop up north the €£ leaves our country, if you sent € to Poland it goes there.
Shop local, keep our € going around in our economy, this keeps us in jobs and more people been paid.
Shop local, keep jobs in your community.
I am 100% self sufficient in food, Ireland can be the same why the hell are we importing french beans from Kenya a country on the verge of famine because their government cant handle their own economy, so Mr Kenya sells his beans gets paid nothing for them and gets no services supplied by his government, hes used land he could have used to grow food for his family or for selling in his local market place, where he would directly benefit from his own work. Mr Ireland can grow his own beans, giving a person in Ireland a job and we cut down on oil miles, boost our own transport industry and local shops.
can I add that we should all buy Irish then the € that we have will stay in our economy and not emigrate.
If you shop up north the €£ leaves our country, if you sent € to Poland it goes there.
Shop local, keep our € going around in our economy, this keeps us in jobs and more people been paid.
Shop local, keep jobs in your community.
I am 100% self sufficient in food, Ireland can be the same why the hell are we importing french beans from Kenya a country on the verge of famine because their government cant handle their own economy, so Mr Kenya sells his beans gets paid nothing for them and gets no services supplied by his government, hes used land he could have used to grow food for his family or for selling in his local market place, where he would directly benefit from his own work. Mr Ireland can grow his own beans, giving a person in Ireland a job and we cut down on oil miles, boost our own transport industry and local shops.
Good post Sue.
I make a point of buying Irish whenever possible. One girl in work keeps going on about Lidl and Aldi but I prefer Supervalu cos they have more Irish stuff.
I will read labels to see where something is made..though own brands seldom say.
Personally I beleive its way deeper than this.
I dont think i can fully explain what I feel and beleive. We have been spoon fed capitalism and its just another quack system like communism. IT DON'T WORK. we live in a boom bust system this is not the first or last world recession and until something is done about globalisation we have a problem that is more evident now than before, recession is now world wide rather than in some countries. Before you could always emigrate but hell theres no where to go this time.
The world leaders are fiddling while the world banks collapse (wonder if I still have to pay my mortgage if my bank dies)?
we will end up with half a dozen banks owning the world economy, the small banks in each country will go, monopolies will become normality and we will be living in a McDonalds world of plastic realities and plastic food served us by a red haired clown who will probably be the next president of the USA.
Local communities need to be in charge of their own resources, not just money but services such as water, electricty production and work, transport and health. not decentralistion thats just the same as centralisation but like road kill - spread all over.
We need a new way of been, and most of all we need to get our heads out of our arses and realise that human's are less useful to the world than earth worms, we need some humility and some common sence.
god its rant night
I dont think i can fully explain what I feel and beleive. We have been spoon fed capitalism and its just another quack system like communism. IT DON'T WORK. we live in a boom bust system this is not the first or last world recession and until something is done about globalisation we have a problem that is more evident now than before, recession is now world wide rather than in some countries. Before you could always emigrate but hell theres no where to go this time.
The world leaders are fiddling while the world banks collapse (wonder if I still have to pay my mortgage if my bank dies)?
we will end up with half a dozen banks owning the world economy, the small banks in each country will go, monopolies will become normality and we will be living in a McDonalds world of plastic realities and plastic food served us by a red haired clown who will probably be the next president of the USA.
Local communities need to be in charge of their own resources, not just money but services such as water, electricty production and work, transport and health. not decentralistion thats just the same as centralisation but like road kill - spread all over.
We need a new way of been, and most of all we need to get our heads out of our arses and realise that human's are less useful to the world than earth worms, we need some humility and some common sence.
god its rant night
wexlady41: Good post Sue.
I make a point of buying Irish whenever possible. One girl in work keeps going on about Lidl and Aldi but I prefer Supervalu cos they have more Irish stuff.
I will read labels to see where something is made..though own brands seldom say.
I make a point of buying Irish whenever possible. One girl in work keeps going on about Lidl and Aldi but I prefer Supervalu cos they have more Irish stuff.
I will read labels to see where something is made..though own brands seldom say.
really I thought they had too now?
jesus learn something everyday here dont we
Ecoprincess: really I thought they had too now?
jesus learn something everyday here dont we
jesus learn something everyday here dont we
A lot of things say they are packed for ..and the name of the shop with their head office address.
They don't say where they're made. If they do its "product of the eu" or "produced in europe"
Ok lets think of it like this. The amount of money coming into your house hold is reduced what do you do?
You sit down with a budget and prioritise pay the essential items like your mortgage,esb,gas first then you make do with what you have left you cut out all non essential items and luxuries and thats what this country has to do as well.
Do we need all the ministers here and all the ones we have in the EU?? Do the Government need a jet hell get on Ryan Air like the rest of the country. My next point and I'll probably get shot down for this and its nothing against the woman but why do we need a figure head president and pay the likes of BC to run this country. How many ministers have state cars and Gardai and drivers or what ever. Cut the whole lot out. Im sure the people of Ireland would be more accepting of dropping our standard of living by 12% if we thought EVERYONE had to do it as well. Oh and stop subsidising things in the Dail pay full price for them like the rest of us regardless of us being public or private sector.
Its the WORKERS and PEOPLE of Ireland that have to stand together united. Although we are not a country anymore just another state in the EU.
You sit down with a budget and prioritise pay the essential items like your mortgage,esb,gas first then you make do with what you have left you cut out all non essential items and luxuries and thats what this country has to do as well.
Do we need all the ministers here and all the ones we have in the EU?? Do the Government need a jet hell get on Ryan Air like the rest of the country. My next point and I'll probably get shot down for this and its nothing against the woman but why do we need a figure head president and pay the likes of BC to run this country. How many ministers have state cars and Gardai and drivers or what ever. Cut the whole lot out. Im sure the people of Ireland would be more accepting of dropping our standard of living by 12% if we thought EVERYONE had to do it as well. Oh and stop subsidising things in the Dail pay full price for them like the rest of us regardless of us being public or private sector.
Its the WORKERS and PEOPLE of Ireland that have to stand together united. Although we are not a country anymore just another state in the EU.
wexlady41: A lot of things say they are packed for ..and the name of the shop with their head office address.
They don't say where they're made. If they do its "product of the eu" or "produced in europe"
They don't say where they're made. If they do its "product of the eu" or "produced in europe"
Unfortunately alot of the supermarkets are now buying things in from the wholesalers in the North and the UK rather than using Irish wholesalers.
wexlady41: I didn't say you were targeting it at me. The Taoiseach and Minister for Finance are targeting me. I am a civil servant.
You did not ask me to take a paycut but you obviously agree with it.
I have discussed similar topics with you before so I know you don't like civil/public servants. That is why I am not getting into the paycuts thing with you.
You did not ask me to take a paycut but you obviously agree with it.
I have discussed similar topics with you before so I know you don't like civil/public servants. That is why I am not getting into the paycuts thing with you.
I said I agree with targeted paycuts, you yourself complained about TDs and people from Principal Officer grades up getting pay increases so I don't see a conflict here. I take issue with those who formulated and directed financial policy and management over the past decade and don't see why they should be rewarded and not bear the brunt of the consequences of their short-sighted and ignorant thinking.
You haven't discussed similar topics with me before, you took a strop and ignored my actual points when I last pointed out that there are problems with the civil service which need to be fixed. That doesn't equate to a sweeping dislike of civil/public servants.
Tanaiste: Ok .. so everyone has an opinion (me included) but..
If you were Brian Cowen what would you do?
I guarantee to email him the best suggestions ...
Be nice!
If you were Brian Cowen what would you do?
I guarantee to email him the best suggestions ...
Be nice!
Resign and put me in charge.
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If you were Brian Cowen what would you do?
I guarantee to email him the best suggestions ...
Be nice!