Should Maori be given back Aotearoa New Zealand (50)
Rubicon76: The title of your poll is misleading and mischief-making.
New Zealand is not being 'given back' to anyone.
Many Maori iwi have historical claims which require examination and potential redress. The claims are made under the nations founding document - the Treaty of Waitangi, the agreement signed between the Crown (Queen Victoria) and the majority of iwi in 1840.
Successive New Zealand governments over the last couple of decades have oerseen the administration of treaty claims. Some claims have been redressed with money, others with business investment. One of the more famous ones involved part settlement of a claim by the gifting of Maori with a 50% stake ownership of the countries largest fishery company - Sealord Fisheries.
So to answer your question - Maori claims under the treaty are and have been being redressed for a long time and will conclude in the next few years.
As far as I am aware, very little land has changed hands as a result of treaty claims to date.
nice and clear and fairly put, thank youNew Zealand is not being 'given back' to anyone.
Many Maori iwi have historical claims which require examination and potential redress. The claims are made under the nations founding document - the Treaty of Waitangi, the agreement signed between the Crown (Queen Victoria) and the majority of iwi in 1840.
Successive New Zealand governments over the last couple of decades have oerseen the administration of treaty claims. Some claims have been redressed with money, others with business investment. One of the more famous ones involved part settlement of a claim by the gifting of Maori with a 50% stake ownership of the countries largest fishery company - Sealord Fisheries.
So to answer your question - Maori claims under the treaty are and have been being redressed for a long time and will conclude in the next few years.
As far as I am aware, very little land has changed hands as a result of treaty claims to date.
Scamhunter: Why should New Zealand be given back to the Maori's, that is turning back the evolution of history. Last 4 millennia the world is ruled by the Western Culture of homo sapiens' caucasian subspecies (= white people),not? Their expansive territorial policy or colonization was caused by a unappeaseable greed for more (=power). Therefore they were not shy to commit genocides. For instance indians of America, aboriginals of Australia and Maori's of New Zealand, etc... This behaviour is also seen in nature(chimpanzees(Jane Goodall), lions,...)Are we as civilised as we pretend to be? Look at the world topics now! War, environmental pollution, hunger and starvation, human rigths violation.....
I don't like it either at all but this is reality now. What would be the result if the Maori's should be given back their country? Wouldn't it be better trying to create a real symbiosis between Moari people and the colonial New Zealand population as in a federal state? First thing they have to do is showing a mutual respect and giving same rights for for each culture. That is what the Maori's at the moment are lacking.
oooh i know lets get each party to sign a treaty!I don't like it either at all but this is reality now. What would be the result if the Maori's should be given back their country? Wouldn't it be better trying to create a real symbiosis between Moari people and the colonial New Zealand population as in a federal state? First thing they have to do is showing a mutual respect and giving same rights for for each culture. That is what the Maori's at the moment are lacking.
Of course, your view would not be grossly distorted either would it Rob?
Let's face it. Everybody thinks they 'know' the history and everybody thinks their perspective is 'right' (which in an existential perspective only goes to prove that there really is no real 'truth').
Nobody here is going to back down and say 'oh yes, how right you are, I see that now. I was completely wrong and I'm very sorry for offering a view different from yours'
So much so that it seems almost pointless discussing it. However, I see there are some internationls viewing and commenting on the poll so lets try to act civily, shall we?
For the one poster who campared NZ's conflict history to Canada, US, Australia where there were similar conflicts between indiginous peoples and emigrating European colonisers, I think most here would agree that we have done a little better over the years than those other nations.
There has been a will by successive NZ governements (if not all the constituents) to support Maori treaty claims and alot of redress has been made. My understanding of the progress in this area made by those other nations to be paltry by comparison.
Australia's 'Sorry Day' fiasco probably sums it up.
Let's face it. Everybody thinks they 'know' the history and everybody thinks their perspective is 'right' (which in an existential perspective only goes to prove that there really is no real 'truth').
Nobody here is going to back down and say 'oh yes, how right you are, I see that now. I was completely wrong and I'm very sorry for offering a view different from yours'
So much so that it seems almost pointless discussing it. However, I see there are some internationls viewing and commenting on the poll so lets try to act civily, shall we?
For the one poster who campared NZ's conflict history to Canada, US, Australia where there were similar conflicts between indiginous peoples and emigrating European colonisers, I think most here would agree that we have done a little better over the years than those other nations.
There has been a will by successive NZ governements (if not all the constituents) to support Maori treaty claims and alot of redress has been made. My understanding of the progress in this area made by those other nations to be paltry by comparison.
Australia's 'Sorry Day' fiasco probably sums it up.
well von Bluefish a number of weeks ago I rember you saying that you have been a long time in having a holiday , well here's a cheap one you can take . It should only take a tank of petrol there and one back to Gisborne . If you stay on the main road into Gisborne just before the showgrounds on your left back from the road maybe 50 meters theres a monument there , have a look . You then might like to turn about and head south pehaps 4 k's to the Jolly Stockman hotel , turn right there to the sale yards . Another left turn at the end of that road and around there , there is a little church . Thats where those that are buried opposite the show grounds were killed . If you like return to the "Jolly" turn right and head out to Natapa , ask around , perhaps at the store if it's still open for Mount Natapa , it's realy just a big hill .Thats where Koote and his band were bailed up , as I said before , him and a mate left the "building" and left his group to face the music . I don't know if a monument has been built since the 70's 
but you could build one . May well be the most relevant thing you will ever do .History is written by the winning side .
but you could build one . May well be the most relevant thing you will ever do .History is written by the winning side .
Rubicon76: Of course, your view would not be grossly distorted either would it Rob?
Let's face it. Everybody thinks they 'know' the history and everybody thinks their perspective is 'right' (which in an existential perspective only goes to prove that there really is no real 'truth').
Nobody here is going to back down and say 'oh yes, how right you are, I see that now. I was completely wrong and I'm very sorry for offering a view different from yours'
So much so that it seems almost pointless discussing it. However, I see there are some internationls viewing and commenting on the poll so lets try to act civily, shall we?
For the one poster who campared NZ's conflict history to Canada, US, Australia where there were similar conflicts between indiginous peoples and emigrating European colonisers, I think most here would agree that we have done a little better over the years than those other nations.
There has been a will by successive NZ governements (if not all the constituents) to support Maori treaty claims and alot of redress has been made. My understanding of the progress in this area made by those other nations to be paltry by comparison.
Australia's 'Sorry Day' fiasco probably sums it up.
Hi rubicon, My understanding is that the only reason we have come out better off than other indigenous peoples' nations is because we have a treaty, binding by lay, and because it was so late in the day, one of the last countries to be "discovered" and colonised by the British.Let's face it. Everybody thinks they 'know' the history and everybody thinks their perspective is 'right' (which in an existential perspective only goes to prove that there really is no real 'truth').
Nobody here is going to back down and say 'oh yes, how right you are, I see that now. I was completely wrong and I'm very sorry for offering a view different from yours'
So much so that it seems almost pointless discussing it. However, I see there are some internationls viewing and commenting on the poll so lets try to act civily, shall we?
For the one poster who campared NZ's conflict history to Canada, US, Australia where there were similar conflicts between indiginous peoples and emigrating European colonisers, I think most here would agree that we have done a little better over the years than those other nations.
There has been a will by successive NZ governements (if not all the constituents) to support Maori treaty claims and alot of redress has been made. My understanding of the progress in this area made by those other nations to be paltry by comparison.
Australia's 'Sorry Day' fiasco probably sums it up.
As for history, there is true history, which is found in the heart of our people, and these are the people that truely have a heart, where the heart is of the land, from the land, cannot be removed from our land, and this is the sad, sad consequence. That most NZ people have no idea that the true Maori Culture is founded on love, and togetherness and respect, for people, the land, the animals. It encompasses all because we need all to live, and be whole.
The British way was manners and money, if you dont have money, have more manners. No heart, and no soul, and no respect for the land.
Money is raping our planet, and if Maori choose to try and keep our own land safe from this, then, bloody hell, only an idiot will be a nay sayer.
Bluefish22: I'm sure they'd last quite well. The traditions and arts are still alive and well, and many of the millions of acres ARE in their stone age state, so its hardly funny.
Hows the indigenous Tasmanians going over there? Oh thats right, extinct.
How's the stolen generation over there mate, real happy?
Hows the indigenous Tasmanians going over there? Oh thats right, extinct.
How's the stolen generation over there mate, real happy?
The Tasmanian Aborigines . . . that is the best example of Marxist doublethink I have ever seen.
When I was a child at primary school I was taught how the wicked white settlers rounded up every single Tasmanian Aborigine and relocated them to Flinders Island, where they all died of broken hearts.
How odd, when a couple of decades later I read about land claims by . . . TASMANIAN ABORIGINES ?
Talk about a WTF moment.
Now either the Tasmanian Aborigines were wiped out, or they were not. The lefties cannot have it both ways. If they were wiped out, then the land claims are an obvious scam.
If they were not wiped out, then generations of Australian school kids have been lied to by lying commie teachers.
Which is it?
I do not know, because I was not in Tasmania 150 years ago.
Rubicon76: Just for the record - according to New Zealand's leading historian, Michael King (recently deceased) in his book 'The History of New Zealand' the latest DNA evidence has shown that Mori Ori were, in fact, not a separate race from Maori. They were ethnically the same. i.e. they were simply a single Maori tribe who left the mainland around 1500, perhaps due to attacks from other iwi, and departed for the Chatham islands. noted
The cultural differences can be explained through the centuries of isolation from other Maori.
Maori usurped the land from no-one.
The cultural differences can be explained through the centuries of isolation from other Maori.
Maori usurped the land from no-one.
noted
charliejapartee: noted
However its a lie the Moriori were first peoples of New Zealand not Maori
Albertaghost: Exactly!
Make an agreement they can all stick to and keep them, the one's already made keep fulfilled and then let everybody live with it best they can.
albertaghost i see you are also for fulfilling the existing treaty nice of you to speak up for the supposedly non existent natives all the way over here, i hope you do the same in your own country.Make an agreement they can all stick to and keep them, the one's already made keep fulfilled and then let everybody live with it best they can.
robplum: However its a lie the Moriori were first peoples of New Zealand not Maori
dude are you seriously getting your opinion from the urban dictionary? I would not be suprised to find that Maori arrived on a boat like this rather than a canoe .
epirb: http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/7615358/Pre-Cook-shipwreck-challenges-history I would not be suprised to find that Maori arrived on a boat like this rather than a canoe .
That's kind of neat, epirb. Like a new little piece of history for New Zealand.
Scary thread though...
Scary thread though
gezzzzzz , tell me about it . Another little thing , a european skull was found 3 or four years ago in a river bank in the Wairarapa district that predates that boat .
Some get alittle emo when you question what they believe rather like religion in away .(nice pic you have whatuwish4)
gota go
gezzzzzz , tell me about it . Another little thing , a european skull was found 3 or four years ago in a river bank in the Wairarapa district that predates that boat .
Some get alittle emo when you question what they believe rather like religion in away .(nice pic you have whatuwish4)
gota go
epirb: Scary thread though
gezzzzzz , tell me about it . Another little thing , a european skull was found 3 or four years ago in a river bank in the Wairarapa district that predates that boat .
Some get alittle emo when you question what they believe rather like religion in away .(nice pic you have whatuwish4)
gota go
gezzzzzz , tell me about it . Another little thing , a european skull was found 3 or four years ago in a river bank in the Wairarapa district that predates that boat .
Some get alittle emo when you question what they believe rather like religion in away .(nice pic you have whatuwish4)
gota go
Well I'm not going to get involved since I've only been there once and know very little about the in-depth history. I just thought that story was kind of interesting.
See ya!
There are two main schools of thought where Maori's have come from .China being one , Pacific / South America the other .However they are united against the theory they are penguin's that have drifted north from the Antarctic . I prefer the theory that from south america . Thor Heyerdahl proved that it could be done and according to Steven O'regan chooks in Hawaii are called moa .Some things point to early contact with Europeans . There was a Portuguse helmet found under a log during excavation for a marina in Gisborne found in the 1970's , a skull many hundreds of years old found in the Wairarapa just a few years ago of european origin .I don't doubt that the leftwing rubbish can discount those two things , however let the leftwing gabbage explain how a Pohutukawa tree many hundreds of years old growing in Portugal got there . Some people don't like little facts that don't fit there crap[ so Thor could sail around in a reed boat but Maoris couldn't come in a wooden one? Maoris were dropped off by the Portuguese? only one piece of evidence [a helmet] survived? one [hundreds of years old] skull is evidence of a premaori European population in NZ? have you considered joining the NZ police force they love people like you, just ask Arthur Allen Thomas.
charliejapartee: There are two main schools of thought where Maori's have come from .China being one , Pacific / South America the other .However they are united against the theory they are penguin's that have drifted north from the Antarctic . I prefer the theory that from south america . Thor Heyerdahl proved that it could be done and according to Steven O'regan chooks in Hawaii are called moa .Some things point to early contact with Europeans . There was a Portuguse helmet found under a log during excavation for a marina in Gisborne found in the 1970's , a skull many hundreds of years old found in the Wairarapa just a few years ago of european origin .I don't doubt that the leftwing rubbish can discount those two things , however let the leftwing gabbage explain how a Pohutukawa tree many hundreds of years old growing in Portugal got there . Some people don't like little facts that don't fit there crap[
so Thor could sail around in a reed boat but Maoris couldn't come in a wooden one? Maoris were dropped off by the Portuguese? only one piece of evidence [a helmet] survived? one [hundreds of years old] skull is evidence of a premaori European population in NZ? have you considered joining the NZ police force they love people like you, just ask Arthur Allen Thomas.
so Thor could sail around in a reed boat but Maoris couldn't come in a wooden one? Maoris were dropped off by the Portuguese? only one piece of evidence [a helmet] survived? one [hundreds of years old] skull is evidence of a premaori European population in NZ? have you considered joining the NZ police force they love people like you, just ask Arthur Allen Thomas.
You and alot of others are happy to believe what someone says ,even a myth , rather than hard , real things .Boats ,trees ,helmet and a skull . I would rather put my faith in things that I can see if I want to rather than some myth handed down from mouth to mouth .
WhatUwish4: Well I'm not going to get involved since I've only been there once and know very little about the in-depth history. I just thought that story was kind of interesting.
See ya!
hey seashanty should you be interested in nz history try THE TRIAL OF THE CANNIBAL DOG by Anne Salmond. thats very informative.See ya!
More Threads
Happy Birthday MysteriousGirl80
Karen McDougal - Playmate Model will testify in Hush Money Trial
Feel Good Music
The Best of the GOP
More Proof The GOP is a Criminal Organization
Unions support Democrats!
men's perspective towards women
the way you look
wanting beyond need
other can see but not you
More Threads
Report threads that break rules, are offensive, or contain fighting. Staff may not be aware of the forum abuse, and cannot do anything about it unless you tell us about it. click to report forum abuse »
The white man (from times gone by) seems, to me, to have a lot to answer for!
Its also these times too, white man has a lot to answer for. The deforestation of the Amazon and the eradication of the indigenous tribes living within it to raise cows for US takeaway franchises springs to mind.