england (232)

I am not talking about what they did tonight. I am saying both are playmakers for their teams. So England does have play makers. Fabio is just not using them. As I said before Torres and Drogba are fed most of their goals by Lampard and Gerard. Thats a play maker. Ronnie Whelan, Jan Molby, , Liam Brady are the sort of player you are talking about. You dont get them much in the modern game. They just sat in the centre circle and picked out great passes. Doesn't work in the modern game.

Xavi and iniesta pass like that all the time for barc and spain till they know its the rite time 2 get moving and go forward

Noth Xavi and Iniesta get forward too. Just like Lampard and Gerard. The days of a playmaker sitting in the middle of the park and spaying the ball all over the pith are gone. Too hard to get in behind most teams now and with fitter players you don't get as much time on the ball.

I know them days ar gone but they stay in the middle they pass and come back for the the ball and keep doin that waitin till they know its the rite time 2 start speedin things up gerard and lampard cant wait they just want 2 get forward as quick as they can

No neither of them are clearly not playmakers. They are offensive midfielders bordering on shadow-strikers. They do not have the basic passing ability and footballing brain to play that role. They are all about shooting from just outside the box, Lampard's goal ratio for Chelsea clearly highlights what his role is. That is why Liverpool had Alonso doing that job for years. Look at what happened when they sold Alonso.

This "they just sat in the centre circle and picked out great passes" idea is used by every top team in modern football. Spain have Alonso, Busquests and Xavi (if they had everybody fit it would be Senna, Xavi and Iniesta with Torres, Silva and Villa ahead of them). Italy had Pirlo and Gattuso doing that job at the last World Cup. I guess that didn't work out for them? EVERY top team has a player in midfield controlling them game.

Sorry I have to disagree. Gerard is world class and Lampard not far behind him. They know exactly when to hold and when to make runs. Spain were beaten by Switzerland! Spain wont win the world cup either. Its going back to South America.

That is absolute crap! Alonso, Xavi, Pilo and Iniesta get forward as much as Gerard and Lampard. Gattuso is not a play maker? He is in there to break things up if anything. He is the oppiosite of a playmaker. Funny how the two of you keep bringing Spain up. Like all fair weather lads , jumping on the Barca - Spain bandwagon. Football has moved on and NO team can afford to have a player that just sits in the middle spraying passes. A player in the centre needs to do so much more now. They need to get forward, they need to get back, and they need to track when they lose the ball. Old playmakers like Molby, Brady or Whelan never done any of those things!

It is absolutely ridiculous to call me a fair weather fan. The first sign of losing a debate is to resort to personal insults. So cut them out.

Xavi, Alonso and Pirlo quite clearly pick the ball up from the centre backs and start attacks. I am not on any bandwagon, I used the current World Champions and the European Champions as examples. You said playmakers did not work in football, Xavi and Pirlo are clear examples that they do work. I mentioned Senna and Gattuso as they are their main central midfield partners. ALL top midfields for the past 20 years have had a midfield like that. I am not harping back to Brady, Whelan and Molby. You are the one doing that. I am using current examples of top midfields. You laugh at mentioning Spain because they lost one game. They have had a phenomenal 4 years. They have severe injury issues and still dominated the game. If one goal had went in, they would have run riot. Look at what they did 2 years at ECs. Look what they have done since. They are a top team with a top midfield. England do not have that. The way average teams like Algeria can have so much possession against them highlights this. It is plain wrong to say anything else.

Since you like older examples, Keane and Scholes are an example of how a midfield should work. Unlike Gerrard and Lampard, they did not both blindly run forward and ignore what is best for the team. They were tactical in how they operated. They got the ball and passed it about and eventually went forward when it made sense. Gerrard and Lampard DO NOT do that. At both their clubs, they do not play in central midfield, they are attacking midfielders. They are never involved in getting on the ball and dictating the game.

Gerard and lampard ar attacking midfielders not playmakes thats why they get so many goals and xavi and iniesta dont cause there playmakers for the team