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tallman51: I think you will agree Phoenix that the main thing right now is that there is peace in the north !!
I well understand that this is important stuff for you personally.
My ex wife is from Belfast and I spent a lot of time up there in the 80's. It was not a nice place to be living in.
The facts are still the same. The majority of people living there do not consider themselves to be irish.
So how can a united ireland be possible ???
I would love to know your views on that !
I well understand that this is important stuff for you personally.
My ex wife is from Belfast and I spent a lot of time up there in the 80's. It was not a nice place to be living in.
The facts are still the same. The majority of people living there do not consider themselves to be irish.
So how can a united ireland be possible ???
I would love to know your views on that !
It's not possible. His view on this is simple: force the majority into a united Ireland against their will, and deal with the civil war that comes from it after. He won't put it like that of course but that's exactly what he's in favour of.
snowlynx: It's not possible. His view on this is simple: force the majority into a united Ireland against their will, and deal with the civil war that comes from it after. He won't put it like that of course but that's exactly what he's in favour of.
I will wait and see what he says !!
snowlynx: It's not possible. His view on this is simple: force the majority into a united Ireland against their will, and deal with the civil war that comes from it after. He won't put it like that of course but that's exactly what he's in favour of.
we should have dealt with that civil war years ago it was weakness in leadership from the likes of dev and collins that lead us to where we are
Phoenix: Not from reading CS forums....irish, how often have you (or any of you) tuned into local radio in the 6 counties or read the local press there???
I also read various blogs on both sides of the political divide and talk to friends and family who still live there...
Unfortunatly all most want to do here is ridicule people who hold very different views from the majority..
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
Arthur Schopenhauer, German philosopher (1788 – 1860)
does reading any newspaper count?I also read various blogs on both sides of the political divide and talk to friends and family who still live there...
Unfortunatly all most want to do here is ridicule people who hold very different views from the majority..
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
Arthur Schopenhauer, German philosopher (1788 – 1860)
jimbo79: we should have dealt with that civil war years ago it was weakness in leadership from the likes of dev and collins that lead us to where we are
Michael collins knew the 6 counties was not an option.
Dev also knew but caused the civil war anyway.
He did exactly as the british wanted. He got us paddy's killing each other.
There was only one chance for Dev to get the 6 counties back. That was in 1939 when WW2 started. Churchill was willing to do a deal for the Irsh ports that the UK had handed back the year before. Dev missed the only chance !!!
tallman51: Michael collins knew the 6 counties was not an option.
Dev also knew but caused the civil war anyway.
He did exactly as the british wanted. He got us paddy's killing each other.
There was only one chance for Dev to get the 6 counties back. That was in 1939 when WW2 started. Churchill was willing to do a deal for the Irsh ports that the UK had handed back the year before. Dev missed the only chance !!!
collins created the 6 counties by agreement lets not change the facts of history, until then we were 32 counties under british rule, in fairness and im no dev fan but he was right in 1939, churchill was not trustworthy and would have went back on his wordDev also knew but caused the civil war anyway.
He did exactly as the british wanted. He got us paddy's killing each other.
There was only one chance for Dev to get the 6 counties back. That was in 1939 when WW2 started. Churchill was willing to do a deal for the Irsh ports that the UK had handed back the year before. Dev missed the only chance !!!
There was no way the six counties would of been handed back at the time for the simple reason was the Britsh Empire was starting to crumble in other parts of the world.If the British would of giving up the six counties it would of of shown weakness in there Government to other countries who were fighting for there independence from the British Empire for exmaple like India.I think Dev knew this and sent Collins to do a deal knowing that he would never the United Ireland he wanted and set Collins up as an Escape Goat.
Dev was known to be jealous of Colins when he returned from America because Collins status grew amongst the Irish people a the time this kind of lead to the fall out between Dev and Collins.Collins singed treaty becasue he tought it was the only way that Ireland would grow and was prob hopen in the near futcher to secure the North.
Dev was known to be jealous of Colins when he returned from America because Collins status grew amongst the Irish people a the time this kind of lead to the fall out between Dev and Collins.Collins singed treaty becasue he tought it was the only way that Ireland would grow and was prob hopen in the near futcher to secure the North.
biggles90000: There was no way the six counties would of been handed back at the time for the simple reason was the Britsh Empire was starting to crumble in other parts of the world.If the British would of giving up the six counties it would of of shown weakness in there Government to other countries who were fighting for there independence from the British Empire for exmaple like India.I think Dev knew this and sent Collins to do a deal knowing that he would never the United Ireland he wanted and set Collins up as an Escape Goat.
Dev was known to be jealous of Colins when he returned from America because Collins status grew amongst the Irish people a the time this kind of lead to the fall out between Dev and Collins.Collins singed treaty becasue he tought it was the only way that Ireland would grow and was prob hopen in the near futcher to secure the North.
Dev was known to be jealous of Colins when he returned from America because Collins status grew amongst the Irish people a the time this kind of lead to the fall out between Dev and Collins.Collins singed treaty becasue he tought it was the only way that Ireland would grow and was prob hopen in the near futcher to secure the North.
jimbo79: collins created the 6 counties by agreement lets not change the facts of history, until then we were 32 counties under british rule, in fairness and im no dev fan but he was right in 1939, churchill was not trustworthy and would have went back on his word
It was not a question of his word !!
It would have been a signed agreement.
Britain could not have given Collins the 6 counties. It was and still is and will be a part of Great Britain. There will never be a united Ireland in that sense.
Anyone who thinks otherwise need to start doing a bit of study.
Margaret Thatcher would have loved to have seen the back of Northern Ireland. It will end up a seperate state of its own.
biggles90000: There was no way the six counties would of been handed back at the time for the simple reason was the Britsh Empire was starting to crumble in other parts of the world.If the British would of giving up the six counties it would of of shown weakness in there Government to other countries who were fighting for there independence from the British Empire for exmaple like India.I think Dev knew this and sent Collins to do a deal knowing that he would never the United Ireland he wanted and set Collins up as an Escape Goat.
Dev was known to be jealous of Colins when he returned from America because Collins status grew amongst the Irish people a the time this kind of lead to the fall out between Dev and Collins.Collins singed treaty becasue he tought it was the only way that Ireland would grow and was prob hopen in the near futcher to secure the North.
and handing over 26 would not be seen as weakness? elaborate on that pointDev was known to be jealous of Colins when he returned from America because Collins status grew amongst the Irish people a the time this kind of lead to the fall out between Dev and Collins.Collins singed treaty becasue he tought it was the only way that Ireland would grow and was prob hopen in the near futcher to secure the North.
collins created the 6 counties along with churchill until then it was 32 counties under british rule, i think you havewatched the michael collins movie to many times and mistaken it with fact
britain divided us to keep us down, the goals of dev and collins and there likes was not to gain freedom but to negotiate a deal
tallman51: It was not a question of his word !!
It would have been a signed agreement.
Britain could not have given Collins the 6 counties. It was and still is and will be a part of Great Britain. There will never be a united Ireland in that sense.
Anyone who thinks otherwise need to start doing a bit of study.
Margaret Thatcher would have loved to have seen the back of Northern Ireland. It will end up a seperate state of its own.
you are contradicting yourself on the one hand you say it would have been a signed agreement, on the other you say the couldnt give it back, fact is britain had nad has no respect for smaller sovereign nations, it has a history of imperialism and her army has committed war crimes throughout the world, she has no honor and that is why dev would not deal with them and on that he was rightIt would have been a signed agreement.
Britain could not have given Collins the 6 counties. It was and still is and will be a part of Great Britain. There will never be a united Ireland in that sense.
Anyone who thinks otherwise need to start doing a bit of study.
Margaret Thatcher would have loved to have seen the back of Northern Ireland. It will end up a seperate state of its own.
jimbo79: and handing over 26 would not be seen as weakness? elaborate on that point
collins created the 6 counties along with churchill until then it was 32 counties under british rule, i think you havewatched the michael collins movie to many times and mistaken it with fact
britain divided us to keep us down, the goals of dev and collins and there likes was not to gain freedom but to negotiate a deal
collins created the 6 counties along with churchill until then it was 32 counties under british rule, i think you havewatched the michael collins movie to many times and mistaken it with fact
britain divided us to keep us down, the goals of dev and collins and there likes was not to gain freedom but to negotiate a deal
The British would have never signed over the North because of fear of the attacks on the Protestant population that was living there at the time and for it military importance there aswell.
jimbo79: you are contradicting yourself on the one hand you say it would have been a signed agreement, on the other you say the couldnt give it back, fact is britain had nad has no respect for smaller sovereign nations, it has a history of imperialism and her army has committed war crimes throughout the world, she has no honor and that is why dev would not deal with them and on that he was right
The facts are simple really !!
Ireland has 26 counties.
Northern Ireland has 6 counties.
That is the way it is and it will remain that way.
I have to sympathise with all the people who lost their lives over this crap !!
biggles90000: The British would have never signed over the North because of fear of the attacks on the Protestant population that was living there at the time and for it military importance there aswell.
what milatry importance, were they worried about an attack from iceland or the north pole, were they not worried about the protestant minority in the rest of the country so when they gave 26?tallman51: The facts are simple really !!
Ireland has 26 counties.
Northern Ireland has 6 counties.
That is the way it is and it will remain that way.
I have to sympathise with all the people who lost their lives over this crap !!
it's not crap and anyone that flies that flag should remember people freely gave their lifes so you could wave it, while at the same time belittling their sacrificeIreland has 26 counties.
Northern Ireland has 6 counties.
That is the way it is and it will remain that way.
I have to sympathise with all the people who lost their lives over this crap !!
tallman51: The facts are simple really !!
Ireland has 26 counties.
Northern Ireland has 6 counties.
That is the way it is and it will remain that way.
I have to sympathise with all the people who lost their lives over this crap !!
Ireland has 26 counties.
Northern Ireland has 6 counties.
That is the way it is and it will remain that way.
I have to sympathise with all the people who lost their lives over this crap !!
I'm sorry, I am in no way political, but Ireland has 32 counties.....there is no way you can dispute that, the fact that 6 of them are under British rule does not change that fact
jimbo79: it's not crap and anyone that flies that flag should remember people freely gave their lifes so you could wave it, while at the same time belittling their sacrifice
I spent a lot of time in Belfast in the late 70's early 80's.
Lots of my friends were killed up there.
When I wave the flag, I wave the same flag that Michael Collins waved. The flag of the Republic of Ireland. 26 counties.
The Union Jack is the flag of Northern Ireland.
Don't talk to me about serving or dying for my country.
My dad spent 33 years in the Irish Army.
tallman51: I spent a lot of time in Belfast in the late 70's early 80's.
Lots of my friends were killed up there.
When I wave the flag, I wave the same flag that Michael Collins waved. The flag of the Republic of Ireland. 26 counties.
The Union Jack is the flag of Northern Ireland.
Don't talk to me about serving or dying for my country.
My dad spent 33 years in the Irish Army.
Lots of my friends were killed up there.
When I wave the flag, I wave the same flag that Michael Collins waved. The flag of the Republic of Ireland. 26 counties.
The Union Jack is the flag of Northern Ireland.
Don't talk to me about serving or dying for my country.
My dad spent 33 years in the Irish Army.
Q. tallman51, Why do yourself and others accuse me of living in the past when all I read is Dev this and Collins that?
I'm going for a joe.
Ps...The union jack is only hoisted at a ship at sea. I think you meant the flag of the union.
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Ask yourself one Q...Why since the signing of the GFA in 1998 (an agreement that was meant to dismantle the political divides...) Peace lines have not only increased in lenght and height but the two comunities are more segregated today than at any time since partion.
Or why various secretaries of state proclaim...."We have no strategic intrest, economic inrest in the north...." While they knew 15miles outside Belfast MI5 were building a new office block.
Or why the SSR (military intelligence...who's fore runners were 14th intelligence, FRU ect) are backing up the PSNI..
As for the 50/50 recruiting policy laid down by Patten report, it stopped on 28/03/2011 with almost 30% catholics making up the new police force ( it's an improvement on the 10% that made up the RUC)
I think you will agree Phoenix that the main thing right now is that there is peace in the north !!
I well understand that this is important stuff for you personally.
My ex wife is from Belfast and I spent a lot of time up there in the 80's. It was not a nice place to be living in.
The facts are still the same. The majority of people living there do not consider themselves to be irish.
So how can a united ireland be possible ???
I would love to know your views on that !