Time Dilation///Does time really exist??? ( Archived) (69)

"A dream within a dream"

Nice Dana

I have thought about this quite extensively for many years. I’ve also taken several courses on Special Relativity as well as refresher courses. Not to mention the myriad of books that I’ve read on the subject.

Time dilation is a hard concept to grasp, especially to grasp it correctly. Unfortunately there are far too many people who think they understand the concept when they really don’t understand it at all.

As you point out there are two different situations that can cause time dilation. One is relative motion, the other is gravitational fields of differing intensities.

Although, everyone says that relativity is always ‘relative’, that’s not technically correct. There are absolutes associated with ‘spacetime’.

It’s true that neither space nor time themselves, separately, can be thought of as being absolutes. But the fabric of spacetime as a whole can indeed be thought of as an absolute quantity.

In fact, perhaps the biggest misunderstanding associated with understanding Einstein’s Special Theory of Relativity if the fact that people attempt to continue to take about time and space as separate entities.

I’m sure you’re familiar with E=mc^2. This famous equation of Albert Einstein mathematically says that matter and energy are in fact, the same thing. They are interchangeable.

Well, time dilation is a similar thing. Space and time are interchangeable. What you lose in time you gain in space, etc. It really makes no sense to talk about time dilation without also considering space contraction or warping. They are intimately entwined.

Space and time are interchangeable. They are in fact, the same thing! It is a single entity called spacetime.

You mention a moving observer’s clocks going slower to someone who is not moving in an “inertial frame”. But you need to also realize that both observes see precisely the same thing!

Each observer sees the other person’s clock running more slowly than their own due to time dilation! Neither observer has a special preference on this.

In a gravitational field things are slightly different.

And you’re right. Time does NOT exist as an ‘absolute’ phenomenon like we normally think of it. It can’t for several reasons.

To being with, like you say, time flows slower in a stronger gravitational field than it does in a lesser gravitational field.

Well, a tall building’s basement then ages less rapidly then it’s penthouse. Just for a mind experience, imagine a building that’s been around long enough that it’s penthouse is now a year older than it’s basement.

Two things come to mind.

First, that’s entirely impossible based on how we measures a ‘year’. The Penthouse and the basement obviously have orbited the sun the same number of times and must therefore both be precisely the same age in ‘years’.

Of course the problem with that is that orbits around the sun don’t really qualify as an accurate means of measuring time. (I’m sure all the ladies will be glad to hear about that! )

The second thing that comes to mind is that if the Penthouse is now a year older than it’s basement then why are they both here ‘now’ (i.e. how did they both arrive here at the same point in time?)

Well, the answers to these riddles is simply that time is not the absolute thing that we though it was. Moreover, there are actually two different types of time. You can read about that in a book called “About Time”, by Paul Davies.

I have so much more to say on this topic but I have other things to do right now.

thank you

I think FallinAngel is just a figment of my obscession.

Wow thanks! I am glad to see you also have interest.

I know I don't understand it. Thats why it fascinates me so.


Great example about the penthouse by the way. I agree it does seem bass ackwards.

Also some things to consider is mass, the mass of object in space, and the weight of the space itself.

Do you consider Newton's Law of universal gravitation with Einstein's relativity?

It opens a few more doors. For instance, if you pair Newton's theory of bodies with spatial extent with Einstein's gravitational relativity we are directly affected by gravitation.

They both coincide. Yet black holes throws both theories out.

Im aware of Space-time.

Spacetime is usually represented with space being three-dimensional and time being a fourth dimension.

I would love to talk to you more about this! Thank you!

My wheels are turning!

Since time is used as a constant in formulas and time is relative because is does not really exist then logically speaking time constantly does not exist.

Twilightstwin wrote:
"Spacetime is usually represented with space being three-dimensional and time being a fourth dimension."

Yes, but don't think of time and space as being separate. It's a 4-dimensional spacetime.

Time and space are interchangeable, just like mass and energy are.

Time and space are the same thing.

If you haven’t yet, you should study Minkowski diagrams. They help to show this the best. They are usually taught in most courses on Modern Physics.

Unfortunately those courses of often taught by terrible teachers. In fact, often times the teachers themselves don’t really understand it. And the ones who do don’t often explain it correctly.

In fact, if any teacher keeps harping on everything being ‘relative’ then they are definitely teaching it wrong, because it can be taught using the absolute concept of spacetime and Minkowski diagrams.

There’s so much more to it! I’ve been studying physics since I was a pre-teen. I’m currently studying String Theory, but I’ll tell you right now that I don’t buy into it. It’s not that I don’t understand it. I do. And this is why I don’t buy into it.

Time itself does not change in a mass distortion field (i.e. gravitational field)...

Only the mechanical means we use to measure it change which causes us to receive a false measurement.

For those who will say an atomic clock is not mechanical I submit this...

Atomic clocks work based on the mechanical measurement of emitted decaying radiation.