intellectuals' club (117)
alabamabebeBanks of the Warrior River, Alabama USA66 Threads 3 Polls 4,404 Postscardsfan24: My momma said i was smart and handsome...
And so you are honey! 
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alabamabebe: And so you are honey!
right on and your gorgeous and very intellectual...------ This thread is Archived ------
cardsfan24: right on and your gorgeous and very intellectual...
Thx, I know. 
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DarkDreamer2005: lol..well a barbecue party would be good....but I'll settle for not feeling like i on the History channel..... So in that vein, do you think that great literature can really be translated, i.e. If I read Gothe, or Gogol, do I miss crucial elements in the English, or can I still get the meainging? sorry to all who will think this sounds like a pretenious question but I am genuinely interested...
you get the main jist, but you lose the wit......reading shakespeare in my first language, croatian, is fun, but it's like reading some other author....
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alabamabebe: And so you are honey!
sweet...
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DarkDreamer2005: lol..well a barbecue party would be good....but I'll settle for not feeling like i on the History channel..... So in that vein, do you think that great literature can really be translated, i.e. If I read Gothe, or Gogol, do I miss crucial elements in the English, or can I still get the meainging? sorry to all who will think this sounds like a pretenious question but I am genuinely interested...
Translations are always a good introduction to great literature I think but it is preferable to try to understand an original, even if in the beginning you are looking up the origin of nearly ever word. It gets easier with time. There are nuances in e every language that are so subtle that we miss, not all, but bits of the meaning, like where humour is used. With the original we can "get" the joke, or find deeper meaning and appreciate the text more.
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WhatUwish4: Look at the quality of some of the posts out there. The intellectuals are easy to spot. Sadly, so are the others...
Gosh Darn Golly Gee Whiz.... I try, but I just can't get it..... I must be one of the others.
Zee
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gingerb: Intellectual discourse, true intellectual discourse only happens in very small circles among people who have doctorates. It's a very exclusive club.
I know this to be a fact because I was told this in no uncertain terms by people with doctorates. I have been on the receiving end of this intellectual snobbery myself many times.
Apparantly people who haven't reached this degree of academic excellence are humoured, but not taken seriously, even frowned upon for having the temerity to presume to know anything worth listening to, because they haven't read enough to do a subject justice.
This is not then, by those standards, intellectual discourse. This is just an exchange of opinions.
I know this to be a fact because I was told this in no uncertain terms by people with doctorates. I have been on the receiving end of this intellectual snobbery myself many times.
Apparantly people who haven't reached this degree of academic excellence are humoured, but not taken seriously, even frowned upon for having the temerity to presume to know anything worth listening to, because they haven't read enough to do a subject justice.
This is not then, by those standards, intellectual discourse. This is just an exchange of opinions.
I can understnad why you would be annoyed at all this.....but I'd just like to say it wasn't because they were intellectuals, it was because they were snobby D**k heads. All opinions are valied and if you can't ask questions, how will you ever learn anything? Don't let that put you off asking questions or giving opinions...
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goldengreen: you get the main jist, but you lose the wit......reading shakespeare in my first language, croatian, is fun, but it's like reading some other author....
I sort of guessed this would be the answer...lol, but it did change the subject....guess I will have to get my russian up to speed for the Gogol...
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gingerb: Translations are always a good introduction to great literature I think but it is preferable to try to understand an original, even if in the beginning you are looking up the origin of nearly ever word. It gets easier with time. There are nuances in e every language that are so subtle that we miss, not all, but bits of the meaning, like where humour is used. With the original we can "get" the joke, or find deeper meaning and appreciate the text more.
I do think your right....I love my films too...and I am trying to impore my russian for the Tarkovsky
, but I always try and get subbtitled and not dubbed if I don't speak the language, because I want to try and catch the nuances.... so does anyone have great authors or directors in there country that the rest of us should check out? ------ This thread is Archived ------
improve......I really should proof read these posts...
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gingerb: Translations are always a good introduction to great literature I think but it is preferable to try to understand an original, even if in the beginning you are looking up the origin of nearly ever word. It gets easier with time. There are nuances in e every language that are so subtle that we miss, not all, but bits of the meaning, like where humour is used. With the original we can "get" the joke, or find deeper meaning and appreciate the text more.
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I'm trying to be intellectual today, but sorry, it's too hot....is that a valid excuse??....
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Ok, here's another rilly useless intellectual question: What aftershave did Descartes wear??
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Every strata of society has its intellectuals, from the ones who contextualise and verbalise conditions and social need to the ones using their skills in innovative sciences and technology - whether these people have MA's or Phd's is of little consequence to the import of the message they are trying to convey - the brain training and qualifications do facilitate employment in particular fields but I think any freethinking intellectual will readily admit to knowing people with no qualifications whatsoever with whom they can discuss the finer nuances of their particular field to a mutually beneficial end.
The way society is structured however precludes many very capable users of intellect from getting a foot onto the first rung of the academic ladder, the result of which very often may lead to quite exceptional people's ideas being ignored.
As Lagoona said earlier, emotional intelligence has a big role to play in this game and from my own point of view, intellecual elitism is fine and possibly even beneficial for those who choose to isolate themselves but for myself I feel that to dismiss the thoughts and ideas of the greater mass of society would be to deny our common origins and needs as well as promoting the already gaping chasm of a them and us society.
The way society is structured however precludes many very capable users of intellect from getting a foot onto the first rung of the academic ladder, the result of which very often may lead to quite exceptional people's ideas being ignored.
As Lagoona said earlier, emotional intelligence has a big role to play in this game and from my own point of view, intellecual elitism is fine and possibly even beneficial for those who choose to isolate themselves but for myself I feel that to dismiss the thoughts and ideas of the greater mass of society would be to deny our common origins and needs as well as promoting the already gaping chasm of a them and us society.
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First of all, I wouldn't have the audacity to call myself an intellectual. I was glad to find out that this was just a thread aspiring to greater heights than the person above you.
and I LOVE what Trish said about the (ehem) elite.
It's no revelation to anyone with any degree of wisdom that the more we experience and become wiser for it, the more we realize that we don't know crap. The smartest among us are the quickest to admit this. The surrender is liberating AND downed defenses of ego allow room for perspective. There are reasons that there are cliches like "from the mouths of babes".
How sad it would be to know "everything" and realize there is nothing left to learn. How tragic for those who think they do, and close themselves off from true treasures.
As much as I have learned linguistic restraint with those younger than I, I still have my quiet internal battle of condescention; that inner dialogue that arrogantly says, "Ha, if he only knew what I know", or "wow, poor kid is going to have to learn that lesson", or "he's in for a rude awakening" etc., etc.
I say if "I" don't challenge my own arrogance and perception, if "I" don't check my ego and remember that my experience (even when I learned my lessons) is completely unique, "I'm" the one who is in for the rude awakening.
The irony of being on a soap box, saying "don't get on your soapbox" doesn't escape me....but 2 very condensed and paraphrased things...The first I remember more from the movie
"The Fugitive" than anything (again paraphrased/prolly mutilated) but about:
A semi driver not realizing that his rig was too large to clear the diameter of a mountain tunnel and getting it horribly wedged. Engineers are called to see if they can drill the rock, or hydraulically expand the the diameter of the tunnel just enough, or saw away at the payload until it cleared the top of the tunnel.......Just then an evacuee comes by the engineers with his son tugging at him. "Daddy, Daddy, don't these things get smaller (pointing at the tires).
The engineers roll their eyes, flatten the tires, and have the truck out within 40 minutes.
The other one is my niece telling me that she didn't care for a certain bumper sticker. She said, "mean people don't suck, they are just HURT".
GULP
I'm trying not to just listen to those whom I respect. I'm trying to respect EVERYONE...and listen.
and I LOVE what Trish said about the (ehem) elite.
It's no revelation to anyone with any degree of wisdom that the more we experience and become wiser for it, the more we realize that we don't know crap. The smartest among us are the quickest to admit this. The surrender is liberating AND downed defenses of ego allow room for perspective. There are reasons that there are cliches like "from the mouths of babes".
How sad it would be to know "everything" and realize there is nothing left to learn. How tragic for those who think they do, and close themselves off from true treasures.
As much as I have learned linguistic restraint with those younger than I, I still have my quiet internal battle of condescention; that inner dialogue that arrogantly says, "Ha, if he only knew what I know", or "wow, poor kid is going to have to learn that lesson", or "he's in for a rude awakening" etc., etc.
I say if "I" don't challenge my own arrogance and perception, if "I" don't check my ego and remember that my experience (even when I learned my lessons) is completely unique, "I'm" the one who is in for the rude awakening.
The irony of being on a soap box, saying "don't get on your soapbox" doesn't escape me....but 2 very condensed and paraphrased things...The first I remember more from the movie
"The Fugitive" than anything (again paraphrased/prolly mutilated) but about:
A semi driver not realizing that his rig was too large to clear the diameter of a mountain tunnel and getting it horribly wedged. Engineers are called to see if they can drill the rock, or hydraulically expand the the diameter of the tunnel just enough, or saw away at the payload until it cleared the top of the tunnel.......Just then an evacuee comes by the engineers with his son tugging at him. "Daddy, Daddy, don't these things get smaller (pointing at the tires).
The engineers roll their eyes, flatten the tires, and have the truck out within 40 minutes.
The other one is my niece telling me that she didn't care for a certain bumper sticker. She said, "mean people don't suck, they are just HURT".
GULPI'm trying not to just listen to those whom I respect. I'm trying to respect EVERYONE...and listen.
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DarkDreamer2005: I can understnad why you would be annoyed at all this.....but I'd just like to say it wasn't because they were intellectuals, it was because they were snobby D**k heads. All opinions are valied and if you can't ask questions, how will you ever learn anything? Don't let that put you off asking questions or giving opinions...
I agree, and nothing puts me off anything I really want to do, as long as no one gets hurt in the process. Maybe so many years in books contributes to a lack of manners and respect in some academics.
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trish123: Every strata of society has its intellectuals, from the ones who contextualise and verbalise conditions and social need to the ones using their skills in innovative sciences and technology - whether these people have MA's or Phd's is of little consequence to the import of the message they are trying to convey - the brain training and qualifications do facilitate employment in particular fields but I think any freethinking intellectual will readily admit to knowing people with no qualifications whatsoever with whom they can discuss the finer nuances of their particular field to a mutually beneficial end.
The way society is structured however precludes many very capable users of intellect from getting a foot onto the first rung of the academic ladder, the result of which very often may lead to quite exceptional people's ideas being ignored.
As Lagoona said earlier, emotional intelligence has a big role to play in this game and from my own point of view, intellecual elitism is fine and possibly even beneficial for those who choose to isolate themselves but for myself I feel that to dismiss the thoughts and ideas of the greater mass of society would be to deny our common origins and needs as well as promoting the already gaping chasm of a them and us society.
The way society is structured however precludes many very capable users of intellect from getting a foot onto the first rung of the academic ladder, the result of which very often may lead to quite exceptional people's ideas being ignored.
As Lagoona said earlier, emotional intelligence has a big role to play in this game and from my own point of view, intellecual elitism is fine and possibly even beneficial for those who choose to isolate themselves but for myself I feel that to dismiss the thoughts and ideas of the greater mass of society would be to deny our common origins and needs as well as promoting the already gaping chasm of a them and us society.
Agree wholeheartedly.
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tunnelwary: First of all, I wouldn't have the audacity to call myself an intellectual. I was glad to find out that this was just a thread aspiring to greater heights than the person above you.
and I LOVE what Trish said about the (ehem) elite.
It's no revelation to anyone with any degree of wisdom that the more we experience and become wiser for it, the more we realize that we don't know crap. The smartest among us are the quickest to admit this. The surrender is liberating AND downed defenses of ego allow room for perspective. There are reasons that there are cliches like "from the mouths of babes".
How sad it would be to know "everything" and realize there is nothing left to learn. How tragic for those who think they do, and close themselves off from true treasures.
As much as I have learned linguistic restraint with those younger than I, I still have my quiet internal battle of condescention; that inner dialogue that arrogantly says, "Ha, if he only knew what I know", or "wow, poor kid is going to have to learn that lesson", or "he's in for a rude awakening" etc., etc.
I say if "I" don't challenge my own arrogance and perception, if "I" don't check my ego and remember that my experience (even when I learned my lessons) is completely unique, "I'm" the one who is in for the rude awakening.
The irony of being on a soap box, saying "don't get on your soapbox" doesn't escape me....but 2 very condensed and paraphrased things...The first I remember more from the movie
"The Fugitive" than anything (again paraphrased/prolly mutilated) but about:
A semi driver not realizing that his rig was too large to clear the diameter of a mountain tunnel and getting it horribly wedged. Engineers are called to see if they can drill the rock, or hydraulically expand the the diameter of the tunnel just enough, or saw away at the payload until it cleared the top of the tunnel.......Just then an evacuee comes by the engineers with his son tugging at him. "Daddy, Daddy, don't these things get smaller (pointing at the tires).
The engineers roll their eyes, flatten the tires, and have the truck out within 40 minutes.The other one is my niece telling me that she didn't care for a certain bumper sticker. She said, "mean people don't suck, they are just HURT". GULP
I'm trying not to just listen to those whom I respect. I'm trying to respect EVERYONE...and listen.
and I LOVE what Trish said about the (ehem) elite.
It's no revelation to anyone with any degree of wisdom that the more we experience and become wiser for it, the more we realize that we don't know crap. The smartest among us are the quickest to admit this. The surrender is liberating AND downed defenses of ego allow room for perspective. There are reasons that there are cliches like "from the mouths of babes".
How sad it would be to know "everything" and realize there is nothing left to learn. How tragic for those who think they do, and close themselves off from true treasures.
As much as I have learned linguistic restraint with those younger than I, I still have my quiet internal battle of condescention; that inner dialogue that arrogantly says, "Ha, if he only knew what I know", or "wow, poor kid is going to have to learn that lesson", or "he's in for a rude awakening" etc., etc.
I say if "I" don't challenge my own arrogance and perception, if "I" don't check my ego and remember that my experience (even when I learned my lessons) is completely unique, "I'm" the one who is in for the rude awakening.
The irony of being on a soap box, saying "don't get on your soapbox" doesn't escape me....but 2 very condensed and paraphrased things...The first I remember more from the movie
"The Fugitive" than anything (again paraphrased/prolly mutilated) but about:
A semi driver not realizing that his rig was too large to clear the diameter of a mountain tunnel and getting it horribly wedged. Engineers are called to see if they can drill the rock, or hydraulically expand the the diameter of the tunnel just enough, or saw away at the payload until it cleared the top of the tunnel.......Just then an evacuee comes by the engineers with his son tugging at him. "Daddy, Daddy, don't these things get smaller (pointing at the tires).
The engineers roll their eyes, flatten the tires, and have the truck out within 40 minutes.The other one is my niece telling me that she didn't care for a certain bumper sticker. She said, "mean people don't suck, they are just HURT". GULP
I'm trying not to just listen to those whom I respect. I'm trying to respect EVERYONE...and listen.
Liked what you said very much.
A lot of hard-earned wisdom there! ------ This thread is Archived ------
Yes....the phenomenon of "Ivory Towers" is an interesting one....and in a Darwinian sense, perfectly natural. Take the example of the upper echelon of a big bank...The top dog surrounds himself with "yes" men, because firstly, he doesn't want competition, and secondly he wants to create a support system of cronies that will guarentee support. It is said that fully 50% of the time of any top executive is spent politically defending his position in the institution, as opposed to furthering the business of the organisation. People are essentially selfish by nature. It is not about promoting the best idea, but rather furthering one's own career. But this is nature's way. The ruling class always has to be toppled by force, rather than voluntarily abdicating. Any profession, wether it be bankers, doctors, engineers, will seek to make entry into their ranks difficult, specifically to protect their own interests. If the world was ruled by emotional intelligence, fairness and the interest of the common good, then the guy with the best idea would win. That rarely happens. A case in point is the lobby of the oil industry against the development of alternative fuels. And therefore, revolution, wether it be teenagers against their parents, students against their lecturers, or citizens against their goverment, is an integral and necessary part of the human dynamic. It's nature's way of guarenteeing the survival of the fittest.
trish123:
The way society is structured however precludes many very capable users of intellect from getting a foot onto the first rung of the academic ladder, the result of which very often may lead to quite exceptional people's ideas being ignored.
As Lagoona said earlier, emotional intelligence has a big role to play in this game and from my own point of view, intellecual elitism is fine and possibly even beneficial for those who choose to isolate themselves but for myself I feel that to dismiss the thoughts and ideas of the greater mass of society would be to deny our common origins and needs as well as promoting the already gaping chasm of a them and us society.
The way society is structured however precludes many very capable users of intellect from getting a foot onto the first rung of the academic ladder, the result of which very often may lead to quite exceptional people's ideas being ignored.
As Lagoona said earlier, emotional intelligence has a big role to play in this game and from my own point of view, intellecual elitism is fine and possibly even beneficial for those who choose to isolate themselves but for myself I feel that to dismiss the thoughts and ideas of the greater mass of society would be to deny our common origins and needs as well as promoting the already gaping chasm of a them and us society.
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