Cary0608Mandaluyong City, Metro Manila Philippines340 posts
DarkDreamer2005: Very true....image does seem to be everything these days....do you think its because of the media and advertising or do you think we humans have always been like this?
let's face it, media has been bugging us for ages. but lets's not forget that the media industry are also people who magnifies everything. we probably also put a high premium on the notion that "reality is what the majority deems it to be" so if 9 out of ten people agree on one thing, the one remaining can only do so much
Cary0608: let's face it, media has been bugging us for ages. but lets's not forget that the media industry are also people who magnifies everything. we probably also put a high premium on the notion that "reality is what the majority deems it to be" so if 9 out of ten people agree on one thing, the one remaining can only do so much
Cary0608: let's face it, media has been bugging us for ages. but lets's not forget that the media industry are also people who magnifies everything. we probably also put a high premium on the notion that "reality is what the majority deems it to be" so if 9 out of ten people agree on one thing, the one remaining can only do so much
Yup...I think the bit about the media is right, but I think its become more since the advent of colour printing, TV, cinema and now the net...because images are more used than the word, before people read more... "reality as consenus" is fair enough, and we can see it happens, I think whoever controls the langauge controls the reality, i.e. the difference between a terrorist and a freedom fighter, regime change and invasion, recreational vehicle and gas guzzler, etc etc...
The sooner the world is honest about its history the sooner the population will no longer put up with deception and lies and half truths about our so called leaders and we will all reap the benifits, especially if they truly believe they will be held accountable for their actions!! Enjoy the read though, your in for one hell of a shock!!
Adding to the shock value, try reading through this one without wanting to start a killing rampage: "The People As Enemy" by John Spritler; 'The Leader's Hidden Agenda in WW2' Black Rose Books, London, 2003 Spritler's view is that our understanding, as taught in schools and rammed down our collective throats about WW2 is especially important today because the myths of WW2 are the same myths that are being used now in the so called "war against terror" by governments and corporate leaders to control people and pursue ends that have nothing to do with protecting anyone from terrorism; it is the reverse...all documented.
RobbieMHertford, Hertfordshire, England UK4,553 posts
goldengreen: As the granddaughter of two WWII heroes I'm more than furious with what you had to say above.
pps. And.....Sir Winston....you simply can't deny his glorious role in boosting people's moral during the Blitz....Go ask older people..they'll tell you what he meant to them!
The last bit you mentioned isnt really valid as the older people were told disinformation on the basis of promoting faith in our wartime effort.
The truth was not exactly reported but there are more than enough account of people being less than impressed with him!!
During one typical speach in the East End of London where he spouted "they will never defeat us" the locals remarked (i'll paraphrase) "yeah its nice and safe for you but were the ones being bombed" then they went into where he and others relocated out of the bombers range to the west of london.
Apparently him speaking on top of burned out ruins pontificating to people who had just had their houses and families blown apart and the firestorm that engulfed the East End (in particular the docks) was just a little too much garbage for the locals to take, and he was ushered away rather quick smart as the situation looked like it were about to turn nasty.
Several of my relatives served on both sides of the Conflict during the War, one who proudly served with the SAS and was the C.O when he and his men liberated a concentration camp.Thus i am more than aware than most of what went on in the camps, as my relative told me about it.He was a touch hard man, but in all the years i knew him i never saw him eat meat after that.
Just in case you don't know burning human flesh smells like a food most of us will consume on a weekly basis......and he never ever ate any that i can remember.Actually come to think of it i mostly remember him living on soup, crackers and cheese.
The best way to honor the fallen is to respect what they went through, remember their sacrifice and tell the truth for what they died for.Without truth, there is nothing and their sacrifice is made all the more worthless and insulting.
Seems to me that we are maybe all falling into the same trap of History, as was said before, reality is decided by the majority. That illusive thing "truth", if it actually exists as a finite thing, is mostly a matter of perspective. At anyone time, there are so many points of view about is going on, and the Truth is an amalgum of all of these. As we get farther from that point, we are dependant for that truth on 2nd hand testimony and secondary sources. There are maybe major bits of the 2nd world war we can agree on, but the effectiveness of people like Churchhill, or any of the other major figures is always going to be a matter of debate, and we are free to contest different versions of history, but I think its foolish to think that we hold the definitive answer.....
Would be nice to think that this isn't going to turn into the WWII thread though...
goldengreenOPZagreb, Central Croatia Croatia25 posts
RobbieM: The last bit you mentioned isnt really valid as the older people were told disinformation on the basis of promoting faith in our wartime effort.
The truth was not exactly reported but there are more than enough account of people being less than impressed with him!!
During one typical speach in the East End of London where he spouted "they will never defeat us" the locals remarked (i'll paraphrase) "yeah its nice and safe for you but were the ones being bombed" then they went into where he and others relocated out of the bombers range to the west of london.
Apparently him speaking on top of burned out ruins pontificating to people who had just had their houses and families blown apart and the firestorm that engulfed the East End (in particular the docks) was just a little too much garbage for the locals to take, and he was ushered away rather quick smart as the situation looked like it were about to turn nasty.
Several of my relatives served on both sides of the Conflict during the War, one who proudly served with the SAS and was the C.O when he and his men liberated a concentration camp.Thus i am more than aware than most of what went on in the camps, as my relative told me about it.He was a touch hard man, but in all the years i knew him i never saw him eat meat after that.
Just in case you don't know burning human flesh smells like a food most of us will consume on a weekly basis......and he never ever ate any that i can remember.Actually come to think of it i mostly remember him living on soup, crackers and cheese.
The best way to honor the fallen is to respect what they went through, remember their sacrifice and tell the truth for what they died for.Without truth, there is nothing and their sacrifice is made all the more worthless and insulting.
poor old winston hehehe...you won't give him a break
i'm not trying to wiggle out now, but i used his name metonimically in the first place.
errrrrr...i could've mentioned boudiccea for instance, but then somebody would probably have said she's a totally fictional character and the story would continue in much the same manner...
goldengreenOPZagreb, Central Croatia Croatia25 posts
DarkDreamer2005: Seems to me that we are maybe all falling into the same trap of History, as was said before, reality is decided by the majority. That illusive thing "truth", if it actually exists as a finite thing, is mostly a matter of perspective. At anyone time, there are so many points of view about is going on, and the Truth is an amalgum of all of these. As we get farther from that point, we are dependant for that truth on 2nd hand testimony and secondary sources. There are maybe major bits of the 2nd world war we can agree on, but the effectiveness of people like Churchhill, or any of the other major figures is always going to be a matter of debate, and we are free to contest different versions of history, but I think its foolish to think that we hold the definitive answer.....
Would be nice to think that this isn't going to turn into the WWII thread though...
well, it would be nice if we could turn this thread into a proper barbecue party, but we are a bit too far away hehe
trish123: I think that to a arge extent, educational smarts only prove that you can say what they want to hear in your essays etc - they really arent interested in your own opinion for the most part
goldengreen: actually, they are! that's what you call intellectual discourse.
Intellectual discourse, true intellectual discourse only happens in very small circles among people who have doctorates. It's a very exclusive club.
I know this to be a fact because I was told this in no uncertain terms by people with doctorates. I have been on the receiving end of this intellectual snobbery myself many times.
Apparantly people who haven't reached this degree of academic excellence are humoured, but not taken seriously, even frowned upon for having the temerity to presume to know anything worth listening to, because they haven't read enough to do a subject justice.
This is not then, by those standards, intellectual discourse. This is just an exchange of opinions.
I think there is a difference between academic knowledge and real wisdom...I have neither btw...but I think that the simplest of people are capable of expressing great wisdom, because true wisdom is not the private domain of people with degrees, but every man. I'll never forget having dinner one night with a renowned Professor in Religion from a german University. To be honest, he seemed to me one of the most ignorant people I have ever met....he had absolutely no emotional intelligence whatsoever....he bored the pants off everybody at the table.... I couldn't wait to leave....
Lagoona22: I think there is a difference between academic knowledge and real wisdom...I have neither btw...but I think that the simplest of people are capable of expressing great wisdom, because true wisdom is not the private domain of people with degrees, but every man. I'll never forget having dinner one night with a renowned Professor in Religion from a german University. To be honest, he seemed to me one of the most ignorant people I have ever met....he had absolutely no emotional intelligence whatsoever....he bored the pants off everybody at the table.... I couldn't wait to leave....
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let's face it, media has been bugging us for ages. but lets's not forget that the media industry are also people who magnifies everything. we probably also put a high premium on the notion that "reality is what the majority deems it to be" so if 9 out of ten people agree on one thing, the one remaining can only do so much