Can fervent nationalism coexist with a European meta-identity? (43)
Creating another European UBER-IDENTITY?
Last time it was tried they called it "GLEICHSCHALTUNG"!
Got a really nice Ring to it?
Fervent Nationalism?
If that means resenting Brussels for issuing Edict after Edict and try Micromanaging everything,so be it!
Gonna take a few more Generations until the Nationalism of the Eastern European Countries has settled down to Patriotism,instead to All-Exclusionary Nationalism.
Doubt we're going to see it!
The European Political Union was really Unnecessary.
The European Problems could have been solved in a much more elegant Fashion,than creating another Political Monster.
Just my 5¢
Last time it was tried they called it "GLEICHSCHALTUNG"!
Got a really nice Ring to it?
Fervent Nationalism?
If that means resenting Brussels for issuing Edict after Edict and try Micromanaging everything,so be it!
Gonna take a few more Generations until the Nationalism of the Eastern European Countries has settled down to Patriotism,instead to All-Exclusionary Nationalism.
Doubt we're going to see it!
The European Political Union was really Unnecessary.
The European Problems could have been solved in a much more elegant Fashion,than creating another Political Monster.
Just my 5¢
Globalization cannot coexist with nationalism...
If the countries are to work as corporations, it's good for the market to have a representation from where the goods or components come from. It's marketing.
Answer the question
Yes, nationalism can coexist with European identity, meaning, no federation, let it be this way
it's much more fun this way. If federation comes, then nationalism won't coexist with it... or even "better" there is no issue...
Whatever
If the countries are to work as corporations, it's good for the market to have a representation from where the goods or components come from. It's marketing.
Answer the question
Yes, nationalism can coexist with European identity, meaning, no federation, let it be this way
it's much more fun this way. If federation comes, then nationalism won't coexist with it... or even "better" there is no issue...Whatever
I can see that some folks here have nothing really to say but make ad-hominem remarks against me. Well, what can one do about such people.?
A serious subject was introduced by DarkDreamer. I put in my bit. Then I was attacked personally! And these types imagine themselves as 'thinkers', probably even intellectuals!
All I can say to Conrad or Antcus is that if you dont have the wit to say anything relevant, have at least the judgement to remain silent.
p
A serious subject was introduced by DarkDreamer. I put in my bit. Then I was attacked personally! And these types imagine themselves as 'thinkers', probably even intellectuals!
All I can say to Conrad or Antcus is that if you dont have the wit to say anything relevant, have at least the judgement to remain silent.
p
plinyelder: I can see that some folks here have nothing really to say but make ad-hominem remarks against me. Well, what can one do about such people.?
A serious subject was introduced by DarkDreamer. I put in my bit. Then I was attacked personally! And these types imagine themselves as 'thinkers', probably even intellectuals!
All I can say to Conrad or Antcus is that if you dont have the wit to say anything relevant, have at least the judgement to remain silent.
p
You are hiding your Prejudices behind a Faceless Profile and Big Empty Words as as usual.A serious subject was introduced by DarkDreamer. I put in my bit. Then I was attacked personally! And these types imagine themselves as 'thinkers', probably even intellectuals!
All I can say to Conrad or Antcus is that if you dont have the wit to say anything relevant, have at least the judgement to remain silent.
p
plinyelder: A serious subject was introduced by DarkDreamer. I put in my bit. Then I was attacked personally! And these types imagine themselves as 'thinkers', probably even intellectuals!
All I can say to Conrad or Antcus is that if you dont have the wit to say anything relevant, have at least the judgement to remain silent.
p
All I can say to Conrad or Antcus is that if you dont have the wit to say anything relevant, have at least the judgement to remain silent.
p
Sometimes speaking from your heart can be refreshing.
In my humble opinion nothing substantial has been said here at all. It is a debate taking shape and as such the topics has been lightly touched but none penetrated.
I for one see fervent nationalism as a dangerous thing, since it can lock up possible and important communication with other communities in small or large scale. But it is in itself not a threat to the function of the EU idea, and not at all a threat to Europe.
Basically the EU concept was not to create a super power in historical sense; it is a trading treaty which has now become more political and state like than it was first thought to be.
If we should point out a "danger" in the mechanism it would be that not all of the member states and their citizens are clear over what impact this have and will have in their control over their own territories. I for one am not clear over this. It creates a feeling of "big brother" when there really is no such thing.
And if this feeling gets a foot grip, then the nationalists may have their wood for the fire.
EnSilencio: And if this feeling gets a foot grip, then the nationalists may have their wood for the fire.
I failed to glue in my emot here
Conrad73: You are hiding your Prejudices behind a Faceless Profile and Big Empty Words as as usual.
Ah! I can use smaller words if you agree to drop your silly capital letters. I promise...as well as crayons and a piece of paper to draw things that are too difficult for you to grasp.
How about it?
Deal?
EnSilencio: Sometimes speaking from your heart can be refreshing.
In my humble opinion nothing substantial has been said here at all. It is a debate taking shape and as such the topics has been lightly touched but none penetrated.
I for one see fervent nationalism as a dangerous thing, since it can lock up possible and important communication with other communities in small or large scale. But it is in itself not a threat to the function of the EU idea, and not at all a threat to Europe.
Basically the EU concept was not to create a super power in historical sense; it is a trading treaty which has now become more political and state like than it was first thought to be.
If we should point out a "danger" in the mechanism it would be that not all of the member states and their citizens are clear over what impact this have and will have in their control over their own territories. I for one am not clear over this. It creates a feeling of "big brother" when there really is no such thing.
And if this feeling gets a foot grip, then the nationalists may have their wood for the fire.
In my humble opinion nothing substantial has been said here at all. It is a debate taking shape and as such the topics has been lightly touched but none penetrated.
I for one see fervent nationalism as a dangerous thing, since it can lock up possible and important communication with other communities in small or large scale. But it is in itself not a threat to the function of the EU idea, and not at all a threat to Europe.
Basically the EU concept was not to create a super power in historical sense; it is a trading treaty which has now become more political and state like than it was first thought to be.
If we should point out a "danger" in the mechanism it would be that not all of the member states and their citizens are clear over what impact this have and will have in their control over their own territories. I for one am not clear over this. It creates a feeling of "big brother" when there really is no such thing.
And if this feeling gets a foot grip, then the nationalists may have their wood for the fire.
I think that your right, not having the right infomation, or trusting the people at the helm, fuels the right wing nationalist factions. Even here in the UK we can see it with the increasing rise of the BNP in the face of adjusting to the new ecomomic pressures of being in the EU. i.e. worker migration, (see the old posts in the uk forum on this).
I think its just important to be aware of the movements that are out there, and highlighting the fact is one way of stopping it from getting a foot hold.
National identity already exists with European Identity, how strong that European identity is will always I think be up for debate..
Wonder if the INTERNATIONALISTS thunk it up all by themselves!!!!!!!
Conrad73: Wonder if the INTERNATIONALISTS thunk it up all by themselves!!!!!!!
You really have a problem with the internationalists don't you
,just out of interest why?
DarkDreamer2005: You really have a problem with the internationalists don't you ,
just out of interest why?
just out of interest why?
Oh yes Conrad, i dont jhave a pretty nancy boy face like yours. Thus it's not on my profile.
As far as your views are concerned, they are really excecrable.
plinyelder: Oh yes Conrad, i dont jhave a pretty nancy boy face like yours. Thus it's not on my profile.
As far as your views are concerned, they are really excecrable.
Golly,the 'IT' knows EXCREMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!As far as your views are concerned, they are really excecrable.
Thats what I like about the Eu forums it doesn't degenerate into name calling and good debate is welcomed..... well it ran for while..
To be honest I think everyone has made valid points, not all I agree with but thats the point of having a discussion isn't it?
To be honest I think everyone has made valid points, not all I agree with but thats the point of having a discussion isn't it?
DarkDreamer2005: You really have a problem with the internationalists don't you ,
just out of interest why?
As a Libertarian you ought to know!just out of interest why?
Conrad73: As a Libertarian you ought to know!
lol..I know my problems with it, I was just wondering what yours were...
DarkDreamer2005: Whether you support Europe or not, it is the future at the moment. It seems that the issues of national and european identity are going to increase to be fought out in the public domain, through books, articles and popular culture, if not on the streets.
Do you think that nationalism can coexist with this new identity, or is the rise of the right, we see in many European countries, and ones on its borders, a dark sign of things to come?
just trying to get those brains cells working... ;)
Do you think that nationalism can coexist with this new identity, or is the rise of the right, we see in many European countries, and ones on its borders, a dark sign of things to come?
just trying to get those brains cells working... ;)
What makes you so sure national and european identity have to fight each other? That is if a "European identity" ever arises. There is no ground for a nation to feel it's identity is endangered
Nationalism and national identity are two very different issues to be put side by side. Besides Nationalism rises mainly in Central & Eastern Europe for reasons that are beyond the EU (and it's aspirations) and is a phenomenon that will decline with time.
Lagoona22: Dear Pliny the Elder...
Would you kindly do us all a favour??....be a good man and piss off...
Would you kindly do us all a favour??....be a good man and piss off...
Yes, of course. I need a pee anyway. You will not hear from me on this subject anymore.
P
ps: But redneck or whatever he's called will hear from me...just once.
Dont worry about it guys ...... a Big Inverted Donut is being formed ...... Federalism, with many layers of loyalty. They seen it done in America, and the best example is Switzerland .........
Remember the adage .... Unity is Strength! .... <Or..... Divide and Conquer - which is what you guys are busy doing to each other here! Lighten up ... this can be a wonderful intelligent discussion, or could be.
..But if you wanna keep getting into fights then that makes me contribute and my contributions will only cause chaos....!
Remember too... If you DONT LIKE A POST - IGNORE IT!... but you still free to contribute to the Thread.
Remember the adage .... Unity is Strength! .... <Or..... Divide and Conquer - which is what you guys are busy doing to each other here! Lighten up ... this can be a wonderful intelligent discussion, or could be.
..But if you wanna keep getting into fights then that makes me contribute and my contributions will only cause chaos....!
Remember too... If you DONT LIKE A POST - IGNORE IT!... but you still free to contribute to the Thread.
smoky: Dont worry about it guys ...... a Big Inverted Donut is being formed ...... Federalism, with many layers of loyalty. They seen it done in America, and the best example is Switzerland .........
Remember the adage .... Unity is Strength! .... <Or..... Divide and Conquer - which is what you guys are busy doing to each other here! Lighten up ... this can be a wonderful intelligent discussion, or could be.
..But if you wanna keep getting into fights then that makes me contribute and my contributions will only cause chaos....!
Remember too... If you DONT LIKE A POST - IGNORE IT!... but you still free to contribute to the Thread.
Remember the adage .... Unity is Strength! .... <Or..... Divide and Conquer - which is what you guys are busy doing to each other here! Lighten up ... this can be a wonderful intelligent discussion, or could be.
..But if you wanna keep getting into fights then that makes me contribute and my contributions will only cause chaos....!
Remember too... If you DONT LIKE A POST - IGNORE IT!... but you still free to contribute to the Thread.
Dear Smoky,
Unity is (I think) possibly the worst human sentiment in history - it unites groups against each other. (As an example school uniforms are divisive in their very nature). Whether there is another better way, I dont know. But historically it has always been the people who stood uo and said 'NO' who changed history. I dont compare myself to Martin Luther or Galileo but I do not like to conform. Even at my gutter level of consciousness. Democracy means differences in opinion - the same thing that makes horses run in a race. Power is the ultimate prize.
I admit that this currrent thread has descended to very low levels. But the original idea was brilliant.
I am glad you are here to calm things down. Men are such fiercely proud and gobbling animals. The planet would have been empty if there were only men who populated it.
The idea of a meta-Europe and 'fervent' nationalism are bound to get face to face somewhere in the near future. A big Europe will of course prevail but there will be disturbance. And fear and persecution. But that will be most certainly wiped out - even at the cost of some totalitarianisom of the EU. Nothing like Jugoslavia will happen here. It would be a mad prediction to think otherwise.
Of course there are people who are concerned (like Dark Dreamer), and of course there will be troubles. But, sure as god made little green apples, an united Europe will prevail.
ever,
P
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Do you think that nationalism can coexist with this new identity, or is the rise of the right, we see in many European countries, and ones on its borders, a dark sign of things to come?
just trying to get those brains cells working... ;)