Obama for President.....franco desenlace prosperidad y,e Paz !!!! (248)
SusieRR: Good for him, still I do not trust McCain.
He is NOT for the average American, he is for the big corporations and the wealthy.
He is NOT for the average American, he is for the big corporations and the wealthy.
In 2005, the Obama's combined income was well over a million dollars. Doesn't that make him one of the "evil" wealthy?
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dazzling_dave: In 2005, the Obama's combined income was well over a million dollars. Doesn't that make him one of the "evil" wealthy?
no
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Good point Wish, I'd like to take it further of course;
/06/27/grim_proving_ground_for_obamas_housing_policy/
Jarrett, a powerful figure in the Chicago development community, agreed to be interviewed but declined to answer questions about Grove Parc, citing what she called a continuing duty to Habitat's former business partners. She did, however, defend Obama's position that public-private partnerships are superior to public housing.
"Government is just not as good at owning and managing as the private sector because the incentives are not there," said Jarrett, whose company manages more than 23,000 apartments. "I would argue that someone living in a poor neighborhood that isn't 100 percent public housing is by definition better off."
In the middle of the 20th century, Chicago built some of the nation's largest public housing developments, culminating in Robert Taylor Homes: 4,415 apartments in 28 high-rise buildings stretching for 2 miles along an interstate highway.
By the late 1980s, however, Robert Taylor Homes and the rest of the Chicago developments had become American bywords for urban misery. The roughly 30 developments operated for poor families by the Chicago Housing Authority were plagued by crime and mired in poverty.
In Stateway Gardens, a large complex just north of Robert Taylor, a study of 1990 census data found the per-capita annual income was $1,650. And the projects were falling apart after decades of epic, sometimes criminal, mismanagement....
Chicago chose a more dramatic approach. Under Mayor Richard M. Daley, who was elected in 1989, the city launched a massive plan to let private companies tear down the projects and build mixed-income communities on the same land....
...Matt Ginsberg-Jaeckle of Southside Together Organizing for Power, a community group that seeks to help tenants stay in the same neighborhoods.
"The same exact people who ran these places into the ground," the private companies paid to build and manage the city's affordable housing, "now are profiting by redeveloping them."
Barack Obama was among the many Chicago residents who shared Daley's conviction that private companies would make better landlords than the Chicago Housing Authority.
He had seen the failure of the public projects in the mid-1980s as a community organizer at Altgeld Gardens, a large public housing complex on the far South Side....
...One of the earliest public-private partnerships of the type supported by Daley and Obama took place in the Woodlawn neighborhood, a checkerboard of battered apartment buildings and vacant lots just south of the University of Chicago.
Grove Parc Plaza opened there in 1990 as a redevelopment of an older housing complex. The buildings had a new owner and a major renovation funded by the federal government. Even the name Grove Parc Plaza was new.
The owner, a local nonprofit company called Woodlawn Preservation and Investment Corp., was led by two of the neighborhood's most powerful ministers, Arthur Brazier and Leon Finney. Obama had relationships with both men. In 1999, he donated $500 of his campaign funds to another of their community groups, The Woodlawn Organization...
...Woodlawn Preservation hired a private management firm, William Moorehead and Associates, to oversee the complex. In 2001, the company lost that contract and a contract to manage several public housing projects for allegedly failing to do its job. The company's head, William Moorehead, was subsequently convicted of embezzling almost $1 million in management fees.
Woodlawn Preservation hired a new property manager, Habitat Co. At the time, the company was headed by its founder, Daniel Levin, also a major contributor to Obama's campaigns. Valerie Jarrett was executive vice president.
/06/27/grim_proving_ground_for_obamas_housing_policy/
Jarrett, a powerful figure in the Chicago development community, agreed to be interviewed but declined to answer questions about Grove Parc, citing what she called a continuing duty to Habitat's former business partners. She did, however, defend Obama's position that public-private partnerships are superior to public housing.
"Government is just not as good at owning and managing as the private sector because the incentives are not there," said Jarrett, whose company manages more than 23,000 apartments. "I would argue that someone living in a poor neighborhood that isn't 100 percent public housing is by definition better off."
In the middle of the 20th century, Chicago built some of the nation's largest public housing developments, culminating in Robert Taylor Homes: 4,415 apartments in 28 high-rise buildings stretching for 2 miles along an interstate highway.
By the late 1980s, however, Robert Taylor Homes and the rest of the Chicago developments had become American bywords for urban misery. The roughly 30 developments operated for poor families by the Chicago Housing Authority were plagued by crime and mired in poverty.
In Stateway Gardens, a large complex just north of Robert Taylor, a study of 1990 census data found the per-capita annual income was $1,650. And the projects were falling apart after decades of epic, sometimes criminal, mismanagement....
Chicago chose a more dramatic approach. Under Mayor Richard M. Daley, who was elected in 1989, the city launched a massive plan to let private companies tear down the projects and build mixed-income communities on the same land....
...Matt Ginsberg-Jaeckle of Southside Together Organizing for Power, a community group that seeks to help tenants stay in the same neighborhoods.
"The same exact people who ran these places into the ground," the private companies paid to build and manage the city's affordable housing, "now are profiting by redeveloping them."
Barack Obama was among the many Chicago residents who shared Daley's conviction that private companies would make better landlords than the Chicago Housing Authority.
He had seen the failure of the public projects in the mid-1980s as a community organizer at Altgeld Gardens, a large public housing complex on the far South Side....
...One of the earliest public-private partnerships of the type supported by Daley and Obama took place in the Woodlawn neighborhood, a checkerboard of battered apartment buildings and vacant lots just south of the University of Chicago.
Grove Parc Plaza opened there in 1990 as a redevelopment of an older housing complex. The buildings had a new owner and a major renovation funded by the federal government. Even the name Grove Parc Plaza was new.
The owner, a local nonprofit company called Woodlawn Preservation and Investment Corp., was led by two of the neighborhood's most powerful ministers, Arthur Brazier and Leon Finney. Obama had relationships with both men. In 1999, he donated $500 of his campaign funds to another of their community groups, The Woodlawn Organization...
...Woodlawn Preservation hired a private management firm, William Moorehead and Associates, to oversee the complex. In 2001, the company lost that contract and a contract to manage several public housing projects for allegedly failing to do its job. The company's head, William Moorehead, was subsequently convicted of embezzling almost $1 million in management fees.
Woodlawn Preservation hired a new property manager, Habitat Co. At the time, the company was headed by its founder, Daniel Levin, also a major contributor to Obama's campaigns. Valerie Jarrett was executive vice president.
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Residents say the complex deteriorated under Moorehead's management and continued to decline after Habitat took over. A maintenance worker at the complex says money often wasn't even available for steel wool to plug rat holes. But as late as 2003, a routine federal inspection still gave conditions at Grove Park a score of 82 on a 100-point scale....
...After negotiations with tenants, the government agreed to allow a new company, Preservation of Affordable Housing, a Boston-based firm, to replace Habitat as the manager of Grove Parc. The company is negotiating to buy the development, which would then be demolished and replaced with new housing.
Officials at Woodlawn Preservation say the government didn't give them enough money to properly maintain Grove Parc. Habitat's Jarrett declined to comment on Grove Parc in particular but said it is hard to manage something you don't own...
(there is a real problem here not only in the development of these housing complexes, what happens is they fall into disrepair after years of poor management and maintenance. Obama's contacts who repaired this complex also managed it for awhile and let it fall to ruin, a story that is often repeated in other complexes of this nature across the country)
-on-obama-housing-policy/
In recent days, leading news organizations around the country have reported on the housing policies of Senator Barack Obama, following a feature article published in the Boston Globe which highlighted the example of the Grove Parc Plaza Apartments, a subsidized housing complex in Chicago’s Woodlawn neighborhood that we call home.
The Globe Article, while rightly raising concerns about the failure of the private sector to adequately provide for the housing needs of the poor, unfortunately leaves out half of the story. Grove Parc is not just an example of the failures of past policies, but a beacon of hope for the way forward. Tenants have not only stopped foreclosure and the displacement of some 500 low income families, but also brought in new management committed to working with the tenants to rebuild affordable and quality housing for all residents. In so doing, we have highlighted two fundamental principles that both presidential candidates would do well to heed as they finalize their housing policy platforms,– first, the full participation of tenants, who have the biggest stake in housing policy, and second, the guarantee of quality housing for all as a human right and social responsibility.
In the wake of massive housing cuts, privatization, and foreclosures that have left millions without a stable home – problems for which both major political parties must take responsibility - it is time for both candidates to tell the American people how they will ensure quality housing as a human right and reality for every American family....
...After negotiations with tenants, the government agreed to allow a new company, Preservation of Affordable Housing, a Boston-based firm, to replace Habitat as the manager of Grove Parc. The company is negotiating to buy the development, which would then be demolished and replaced with new housing.
Officials at Woodlawn Preservation say the government didn't give them enough money to properly maintain Grove Parc. Habitat's Jarrett declined to comment on Grove Parc in particular but said it is hard to manage something you don't own...
(there is a real problem here not only in the development of these housing complexes, what happens is they fall into disrepair after years of poor management and maintenance. Obama's contacts who repaired this complex also managed it for awhile and let it fall to ruin, a story that is often repeated in other complexes of this nature across the country)
-on-obama-housing-policy/
In recent days, leading news organizations around the country have reported on the housing policies of Senator Barack Obama, following a feature article published in the Boston Globe which highlighted the example of the Grove Parc Plaza Apartments, a subsidized housing complex in Chicago’s Woodlawn neighborhood that we call home.
The Globe Article, while rightly raising concerns about the failure of the private sector to adequately provide for the housing needs of the poor, unfortunately leaves out half of the story. Grove Parc is not just an example of the failures of past policies, but a beacon of hope for the way forward. Tenants have not only stopped foreclosure and the displacement of some 500 low income families, but also brought in new management committed to working with the tenants to rebuild affordable and quality housing for all residents. In so doing, we have highlighted two fundamental principles that both presidential candidates would do well to heed as they finalize their housing policy platforms,– first, the full participation of tenants, who have the biggest stake in housing policy, and second, the guarantee of quality housing for all as a human right and social responsibility.
In the wake of massive housing cuts, privatization, and foreclosures that have left millions without a stable home – problems for which both major political parties must take responsibility - it is time for both candidates to tell the American people how they will ensure quality housing as a human right and reality for every American family....
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SusieRR: no
So only Republicans with money are considered wealthy.
Democrats are all for helping the poor, as long as the poor are being helped with other people's money.
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dazzling_dave: So only Republicans with money are considered wealthy.
Democrats are all for helping the poor, as long as the poor are being helped with other people's money.
Democrats are all for helping the poor, as long as the poor are being helped with other people's money.
I did not say that at all, but if that is what you gathered from my "no" reply, you have a good imagination.
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Interesting details of the events.... You can easily see how the mismanagement occurred.... and that the deterioration was not necessarily part of the initial picture. I happily conceed the point! But it does not change the fact that the contracts were awarded out to his personal friends... That's the rub, to me. The good old boy, behind closed door deals.. I scratch your back if you'll scratch mine.
All of Washington is filled with this mentalitiy....just hate to see another join the crowd
All of Washington is filled with this mentalitiy....just hate to see another join the crowd
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dazzling_dave: In 2005, the Obama's combined income was well over a million dollars. Doesn't that make him one of the "evil" wealthy?
According to NoBama himself, it sure does: anyone making over 250,000 is "rich" by his own standards...his words.
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SusieRR: I did not say that at all, but if that is what you gathered from my "no" reply, you have a good imagination.
Sorry. Should have been a question mark following my first line instead of a period.
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The RNC and the DNC are both guilty of double standards. Seems like she knew full well the bridge was greedy grabbing of earmarks and was very thick with Stevens before he was accused of corruption. She raised money for him and stood beside him supporting him right up to his charges.
Flip Flopping for distance from the corruption she was involved in I think. If she is so smart and tough then why didn't she have a clue before the charges were brought against Stevens?
-palin-bridge_N.htm
ST.PAUL — In her nationally televised speech accepting the job as John McCain's running mate, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin said she "championed reform to end the abuses of earmark spending by Congress" and opposed federal funding for a controversial bridge to a sparsely populated island.
"I told Congress, 'Thanks, but no thanks,' on that bridge to nowhere," Palin said Friday in Ohio, using the critics' dismissive name of the project. "'If our state wanted a bridge,' I said, 'we'd build it ourselves.'"
While running for governor in 2006, though, Palin backed federal funding for the infamous bridge, which McCain helped make a symbol of pork barrel excess.
And as mayor of the small town of Wasilla from 1996 to 2002, Palin also hired a Washington lobbying firm that helped secure $8 million in congressionally directed spending projects, known as earmarks, according to public spending records compiled by the watchdog group Citizens Against Government Waste and lobbying documents.
Wasilla's lobbying firm was headed by Steven Silver — a former chief of staff to Alaska Sen. Ted Stevens, a key proponent of the bridge project.
"We need to come to the defense of Southeast Alaska when proposals are on the table like the bridge, and not allow the spinmeisters to turn this project or any other into something that's so negative," Palin said in August 2006, according to the Ketchikan Daily News.
The Anchorage Daily News quoted her in October 2006 as saying she would continue state funding for the bridge. "The window is now, while our congressional delegation is in a strong position to assist," she said.
Asked why she supported the bridge, Palin's communications director Bill McAlister said, "It was never at the top of her priority list, and in fact the project isn't necessarily dead … there's still the potential for improved ferry service or even a bridge of a less costly design."
She changed her mind, he said, when "she saw that Alaska was being perceived as taking from the country and not giving, and that impression bothered her and she wants to change it. … I think that Sarah Palin is someone who has the courage to reevaluate situations as they developed."
Wasilla, which in 2007 had 9,780 residents, according to the U.S. Census Bureau, hired a lobbyist in 2000, public records show, paying him about $36,000 per year. In 2001, Palin was quoted in a local newspaper crediting Silver with helping secure federal funding for Wasilla.
Congressional spending items for Wasilla during Palin's term included $1 million for a regional dispatch center and $1.5 million for water and sewer improvements, according to Citizens Against Government Waste.
McAlister said he was unaware of the details of Wasilla's earmarks. But, he added, "As mayor of the city, her charge was very different than it is now. She's obviously taking a much broader look at things as governor."
It is not unusual for municipalities to hire lobbyists and seek federal help. But of 149 incorporated places in Alaska, just six of them had paid registered lobbyists in 2002, including Wasilla, lobbying records show.
Alaska is regularly one of the biggest per-person beneficiaries of such spending, thanks to the clout of Stevens, who is under indictment, and Rep. Don Young, whose primary election is still in doubt as votes are being counted. Both men supported the so-called 'bridge to nowhere.'
Flip Flopping for distance from the corruption she was involved in I think. If she is so smart and tough then why didn't she have a clue before the charges were brought against Stevens?
-palin-bridge_N.htm
ST.PAUL — In her nationally televised speech accepting the job as John McCain's running mate, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin said she "championed reform to end the abuses of earmark spending by Congress" and opposed federal funding for a controversial bridge to a sparsely populated island.
"I told Congress, 'Thanks, but no thanks,' on that bridge to nowhere," Palin said Friday in Ohio, using the critics' dismissive name of the project. "'If our state wanted a bridge,' I said, 'we'd build it ourselves.'"
While running for governor in 2006, though, Palin backed federal funding for the infamous bridge, which McCain helped make a symbol of pork barrel excess.
And as mayor of the small town of Wasilla from 1996 to 2002, Palin also hired a Washington lobbying firm that helped secure $8 million in congressionally directed spending projects, known as earmarks, according to public spending records compiled by the watchdog group Citizens Against Government Waste and lobbying documents.
Wasilla's lobbying firm was headed by Steven Silver — a former chief of staff to Alaska Sen. Ted Stevens, a key proponent of the bridge project.
"We need to come to the defense of Southeast Alaska when proposals are on the table like the bridge, and not allow the spinmeisters to turn this project or any other into something that's so negative," Palin said in August 2006, according to the Ketchikan Daily News.
The Anchorage Daily News quoted her in October 2006 as saying she would continue state funding for the bridge. "The window is now, while our congressional delegation is in a strong position to assist," she said.
Asked why she supported the bridge, Palin's communications director Bill McAlister said, "It was never at the top of her priority list, and in fact the project isn't necessarily dead … there's still the potential for improved ferry service or even a bridge of a less costly design."
She changed her mind, he said, when "she saw that Alaska was being perceived as taking from the country and not giving, and that impression bothered her and she wants to change it. … I think that Sarah Palin is someone who has the courage to reevaluate situations as they developed."
Wasilla, which in 2007 had 9,780 residents, according to the U.S. Census Bureau, hired a lobbyist in 2000, public records show, paying him about $36,000 per year. In 2001, Palin was quoted in a local newspaper crediting Silver with helping secure federal funding for Wasilla.
Congressional spending items for Wasilla during Palin's term included $1 million for a regional dispatch center and $1.5 million for water and sewer improvements, according to Citizens Against Government Waste.
McAlister said he was unaware of the details of Wasilla's earmarks. But, he added, "As mayor of the city, her charge was very different than it is now. She's obviously taking a much broader look at things as governor."
It is not unusual for municipalities to hire lobbyists and seek federal help. But of 149 incorporated places in Alaska, just six of them had paid registered lobbyists in 2002, including Wasilla, lobbying records show.
Alaska is regularly one of the biggest per-person beneficiaries of such spending, thanks to the clout of Stevens, who is under indictment, and Rep. Don Young, whose primary election is still in doubt as votes are being counted. Both men supported the so-called 'bridge to nowhere.'
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Paulin is such a reformer that one of her past jobs was fundraising for Ted Stevens. He endorsed her for governor (his ad was quickly scrubbed last week from her web site). Sarah Palin began building clout in her state's political circles in part by serving as a director of an independent political group organized by the now embattled Alaska Sen. Ted Stevens. Palin, an anti-corruption crusader in Alaska, had called on Stevens to be open about the issues behind the investigation. But she also held a joint news conference with him in July, before he was indicted, to make clear she had not abandoned him politically.
Palin's name is listed on 2003 incorporation papers of the "Ted Stevens Excellence in Public Service, Inc.," a 527 group that could raise unlimited funds from corporate donors. The group was designed to serve as a political boot camp for Republican women in the state. She served as one of three directors until June 2005, when her name was replaced on state filings.
Posted by Alaska_Politics
Posted: July 2, 2008 - 12:25 pm
Just got back from the Stevens & Palin press conference, and then another by Begich...
I asked: Governor, your appearance was kind of a surprise today. Can you talk about how that came about and whether or not we should see this as kind of an endorsement of Sen. Stevens for re-election?
PALIN: Well it’s, I’m on the clock and we’re in a federal building. So we won’t talk about campaigns or endorsements. All that comes later.
But I support the Senator’s proposals here and his passion to again allow Alaska to be heard and to lead with an American energy policy that has been, I believe has been sorely lacking. And it is time to step up, work together. Others are looking to us to see how we are going to work together through this energy crisis, and from here forward.
So I’m honored to get to be here…
STEVENS: No announcements will be made here …
… What we’ve been describing is a process that’s going to take place over the years. And I hope to work with her over the years. That’s as far as I can go right now....
STEVENS: I don’t really object to the comments made about my earmarks. I think that you know, they’re part of a period of need. I’m not sure -- with the money that’s coming into the state, I don’t think that we’re going to get many earmarks in the future.
We developed our earmarks in a period of need and found a way to bring these federal agencies in here through the Denali Commission and other things like that. I don’t object to people who objected to that.
I think the investigation is another matter. And I do think she, the governor had every right to say what she did. I don’t take any umbrage about it and never talked to her about it at all.
I wish I had her freedom to speak about it. But I don’t. You know it's, it's there, it's continuing and that’ s all there is to it.
But as far as getting along. … Hell, I don’t know if you know it but when Frank Murkwoski was first elected, this lady and I and the mayor of Cordova, Margie Johnson, traveled around the state for two weeks.
We’ve known each other for a long time and worked together for a long time. I’ve never known of any animosity between us at all.
We’re each free to make comments about what the other does. And every once in a while, she’ll say I’m stupid, and that’s probably – she may be right. (laughter)
PALIN: I have great respect for the Senator and he needs to be heard across America. His voice, his experience, his passion needs to be heard across America so that Alaska can contribute more. So that we can be producers. So that we can help lead the rest of the U.S.
I again have great respect for him. And I agree there’s a big difference between reality and perception regarding our relationship.
STEVENS:(Inaudible) object to the first edition of the Sarah and Ted show, I hope it will continue.
Palin's name is listed on 2003 incorporation papers of the "Ted Stevens Excellence in Public Service, Inc.," a 527 group that could raise unlimited funds from corporate donors. The group was designed to serve as a political boot camp for Republican women in the state. She served as one of three directors until June 2005, when her name was replaced on state filings.
Posted by Alaska_Politics
Posted: July 2, 2008 - 12:25 pm
Just got back from the Stevens & Palin press conference, and then another by Begich...
I asked: Governor, your appearance was kind of a surprise today. Can you talk about how that came about and whether or not we should see this as kind of an endorsement of Sen. Stevens for re-election?
PALIN: Well it’s, I’m on the clock and we’re in a federal building. So we won’t talk about campaigns or endorsements. All that comes later.
But I support the Senator’s proposals here and his passion to again allow Alaska to be heard and to lead with an American energy policy that has been, I believe has been sorely lacking. And it is time to step up, work together. Others are looking to us to see how we are going to work together through this energy crisis, and from here forward.
So I’m honored to get to be here…
STEVENS: No announcements will be made here …
… What we’ve been describing is a process that’s going to take place over the years. And I hope to work with her over the years. That’s as far as I can go right now....
STEVENS: I don’t really object to the comments made about my earmarks. I think that you know, they’re part of a period of need. I’m not sure -- with the money that’s coming into the state, I don’t think that we’re going to get many earmarks in the future.
We developed our earmarks in a period of need and found a way to bring these federal agencies in here through the Denali Commission and other things like that. I don’t object to people who objected to that.
I think the investigation is another matter. And I do think she, the governor had every right to say what she did. I don’t take any umbrage about it and never talked to her about it at all.
I wish I had her freedom to speak about it. But I don’t. You know it's, it's there, it's continuing and that’ s all there is to it.
But as far as getting along. … Hell, I don’t know if you know it but when Frank Murkwoski was first elected, this lady and I and the mayor of Cordova, Margie Johnson, traveled around the state for two weeks.
We’ve known each other for a long time and worked together for a long time. I’ve never known of any animosity between us at all.
We’re each free to make comments about what the other does. And every once in a while, she’ll say I’m stupid, and that’s probably – she may be right. (laughter)
PALIN: I have great respect for the Senator and he needs to be heard across America. His voice, his experience, his passion needs to be heard across America so that Alaska can contribute more. So that we can be producers. So that we can help lead the rest of the U.S.
I again have great respect for him. And I agree there’s a big difference between reality and perception regarding our relationship.
STEVENS:(Inaudible) object to the first edition of the Sarah and Ted show, I hope it will continue.
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pyaremohan: .ya man.......see the no of words per post really amazin ppl have really some job to do
Thats the beauty and the ugly of cutting and pasting articles, leave too much out and the story is slanted. Put too much in and peoples eyes get crossed.
There are too many lies in Washington to just rely on opinions of them especially when we are looking at candidates and getting ready to vote my friend.
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Skybow: Thats the beauty and the ugly of cutting and pasting articles, leave too much out and the story is slanted. Put too much in and peoples eyes get crossed.
There are too many lies in Washington to just rely on opinions of them especially when we are looking at candidates and getting ready to vote my friend.
There are too many lies in Washington to just rely on opinions of them especially when we are looking at candidates and getting ready to vote my friend.
hi Skybow..........i really dont understand ppl at times ...not ya....dont have the heart to discuss n argue on facts.........lies????????
Its a free world..ppl r smart let them decide what is a lie n whats truth.
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pyaremohan: hi Skybow..........i really dont understand ppl at times ...not ya....dont have the heart to discuss n argue on facts.........lies????????
Its a free world..ppl r smart let them decide what is a lie n whats truth.
Its a free world..ppl r smart let them decide what is a lie n whats truth.
O suppose you have to live in America to understand us better, we often don't understand each other come to think of it and I only have a vague understanding of India.
As to it being a free world, that is a rather general statement isn't it.
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Skybow: Thats the beauty and the ugly of cutting and pasting articles, leave too much out and the story is slanted. Put too much in and peoples eyes get crossed.
There are too many lies in Washington to just rely on opinions of them especially when we are looking at candidates and getting ready to vote my friend.
There are too many lies in Washington to just rely on opinions of them especially when we are looking at candidates and getting ready to vote my friend.
That is soooo true Skybow.... if we had the time, it would be better to condense ALL the facts to present one shorter statement, but who has the time for that?
And since people can only make sound decisions when the media presents the facts without bias...and since we both know that is NOT what the media does...our only alternative is to take the time to THINK through theri rhetoric and try to evaluate the real situation based on our own logic...
Sadly, only a handful of people take the time to do that anymore.
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Skybow: O suppose you have to live in America to understand us better, we often don't understand each other come to think of it and I only have a vague understanding of India.
As to it being a free world, that is a rather general statement isn't it.
As to it being a free world, that is a rather general statement isn't it.
OMG.....thats the most unreasonable arguement i have come across so many times......obviously there r cultural differences...but this general statement is apt.........this also is unreasonable to say a statement is general ...its like askin the other person to shut up....
are ppl in america not smart, cant they decide for themselves...........they r so that general statement .
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pyaremohan: OMG.....thats the most unreasonable arguement i have come across so many times......obviously there r cultural differences...but this general statement is apt.........this also is unreasonable to say a statement is general ...its like askin the other person to shut up....
are ppl in america not smart, cant they decide for themselves...........they r so that general statement .
are ppl in america not smart, cant they decide for themselves...........they r so that general statement .
Rahul...Skybow is not being unreasonable at all. She is actually trying to NICELY point out why you may not fully understand this logic....
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ppl listen to media..........US has a fairly wide n open media.cant say one party or group n dominate....so there r different voices ...which is good..let the ppl decide.have arguments, disagree ,fight .but not below dignity.thats the only way for a democracy to function........agree to disagree.........its always good to work out a thing with consensus but that is not the case mostly.
Ppl have no heart to discuss n treat the other person as equal.Thats sad.
Ppl have no heart to discuss n treat the other person as equal.Thats sad.
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pyaremohan: OMG.....thats the most unreasonable arguement i have come across so many times......obviously there r cultural differences...but this general statement is apt.........this also is unreasonable to say a statement is general ...its like askin the other person to shut up....
are ppl in america not smart, cant they decide for themselves...........they r so that general statement .
are ppl in america not smart, cant they decide for themselves...........they r so that general statement .
I'm not attacking you or arguing with you, I'm just saying we have had to fight for our freedoms, it wasn't and isn't something that happens by chance and luck.
It's a process as is debating the issues.
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and not the RNC? Or maybe they have no standards.