Could the Palestinians get the attention of the Israelis – and the international community’s support – by leapfrogging negotiations and simply declaring a state?
I don't blame you for not answering. It's indefenceable Moe. Pure horror. 12 kids a month? 50 men and women a month. All the while being held in captivity? It's inhuman Moe. Horror.
Moe is my name for you Alberta because you Conrad (Larry) and ttom,(Curly) remind me of the "Three Stooges" comedy team from the 1930s with their slapstick behavior. The same way you stooges swoop in and out of the forums, clumsily falling over each other with your incoherant rants and preposterous counters to the horrific mayhem that Netanyahu and his henchmen commit every day. Of course Moe is an twist on the old favorite "Toe" which seemed to set you off , so I decided to soften it a bit.
SilverBirch: I know! ttom! (Do you stutter?,,ttom?) Anyway I've always wondered why jews are known as the "chosen"! Chosen for what? Chosen to lead by example?
As in how to kill children? 1,441 since 9-29-2000
Or how to kill Palestinians 6,348 since 9-29-2000
Or how to merit United Nations Resolutions, 65 times between 1955-1992 Or how to demolish Palestinian Homes? 24,145 since 9-29-2000
Yeah, I've wondered,...Chosen for what. See you next thread.
Paris said he was "cautiously optimistic", hailing the efforts of the Palestinian Authority's security forces, and praising a "slowing down" of Israelis settlements, which he attributed to personally to "Bibi" (Netanyahu).
If Netanyahu opts for peace, Paris argued, the other Israeli parties will follow.
Paris stressed that US President Barak Obama is committed to the peace process, which he says also enjoys the popular support of Palestinians and Israelis, adding that the success of these talks would also result in a "containment" of Iran.
Since expectations for the success of these talks are very low, noted Paris, "we have less to lose," in a hint that the negotiations outcome would be more positive than initially thought.
Edward Luttwak, historian and military strategist, voiced strong objection to holding peace talks under the auspice of the United States and with the involvement of foreign diplomats, stressing that for the negotiations to succeed they must be conducted by Palestinians and Israelis alone, where the terms would be in favour of the "victorious" side, which he said was the common practice following a "war".
"Peace is not a charade. The charade is the peace process," said Luttwak, who mocked all the non-Israeli and non-Palestinian players involved in setting up the negotiations.
Luttwak sought to portray the Israeli-Palestinian conflict as one of war alone, making almost no reference to occupation and population dispossession.
"It was war itself that brought peace," he argued, adding that to achieve peace "you must make a deal" and not ask for "rights and justice."
In contrast, Martin Indyk, former US ambassador to Israel, appeared upbeat on the progress of the negotiations.
He laid the blame for the failure of past Mideast talks squarely on the Palestinian side, but expressed optimism that this round would be different because "Abbas is committed to making peace."
Indyk also saw in Netanyahu's comment to Abbas - "you are my partner" - an unusual but positive shift in the choice of words by a right-wing Israeli PM with regard to a Palestinian leader.
Like Paris, Indyk expressed confidence in "Bibi", echoing the same sentiment, that if Netanyahu makes a deal then the rest of Israelis will support him.
A debate over the seriousness of the Middle East peace process was held in London Tuesday, where six analysts argued for and against the motion that the current Israeli-Palestinian negotiations were merely a charade.
Shlomo Ben-Ami, historian and former Israeli minister, expressed "serious doubts" on the validity of the negotiations, where both sides were in a "sate of indifference" and not ready to make any significant commitments.
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, Ben-Ami argued, does not have the political power and right-wing backing to make peace, and all that he is willing to offer clashes with the concept of a "sovereign Palestinian state."
On the other side, Ben-Ami continued, Palestinian leader Mahmud Abbas does not have a real mandate to negotiate a lasting deal on behalf of all Palestinians in the absence of a national unity government with Hamas, expressing astonishment on how a "democratically elected majority was marginalised" in a peace process.
Ben-Ami said US efforts must focus first on bringing about a national Palestinian reconciliation, especially between Fatah and Hamas.
However, his views were challenged by Manuel Hassassian, Palestinian Ambassador to the UK, who insisted that the Israelis and the Palestinians were "still earnest on the peace process."
Hassassian said he sees "no alternative" to these negations, where both sides cannot afford to have the talks fail, but he also urged the Israelis not miss the opportunity to make the process succeed and forge peace.
"We Palestinians are the only ones who can give Israel a birth certificate", he said, in a reference to the legitimacy Israel is expected to acquire once it ends its occupation and allow an independent Palestinian state to exist.
But for the two-state solution to materialize, Hassassian argued, the weaker side in these negotiations – i.e. the Palestinians – must have the support of the US administration, in addition to American civil society to protect Palestinian human right and uphold international law with regards to the Mideast conflict.
I know Larry, "Fark the Quartet" Fark the European Union" Fark the United Nations" "Fark Jimmy Carter" on and on you go. Solipsist. Look that one up Moe. Use your spell check. You might just win the daily loser contest again!!!!
Earlier, Israeli Deputy Foreign Minister Danny Ayalon indicated that his government disagreed with the view that ending the settlement construction freeze threatened to bring a premature halt to the talks.
"Settlements have never been an issue, because once we agree on borders everything will be obvious. So let's concentrate on the real issues and not just put the obstacle in the settlements," he told reporters at the UN.
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has said he will not extend the freeze, but indicated he could limit construction work to major settlement blocs.
Before the Quartet meeting, a spokesman for Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas said the next 10 days would be "decisive and determine the fate of the direct negotiations".
"There is a very large international effort made to overcome the obstacles in the way of direct negotiations. In particular, the obstacle of the settlements," Nabil Abu Rudeina told the AFP news agency.he Quartet representative, Tony Blair, remained optimistic that a compromise could be reached.
"The good news in a sense, and the thing that should encourage us to find a way round this impasse, is that there's no doubt at all that both parties are absolutely serious about finding an agreement," he said.
Nearly half a million Jews live in more than 100 settlements built since Israel's 1967 occupation of the West Bank and East Jerusalem. They are held to be illegal under international law, although Israel disputes this.
Israeli President Shimon Peres held private talks late on Monday with Mr Abbas in New York. They spoke briefly to reporters afterwards, but did not discuss any particular developments, including settlements.
The Quartet of Middle East peace mediators has urged Israel to extend its partial freeze on the construction of Jewish settlements in the West Bank.
It called the freeze, due to expire at the end of the month, commendable and said it had had a positive impact.
The Palestinian Authority says it will pull out if the freeze is not extended, but Israel has so far refused.
Meetings in the Egyptian resort of Sharm el-Sheikh and Jerusalem last week appeared to fail to resolve the matter, although the US special envoy, George Mitchell, said "progress" had been made.
Senior diplomats from the Quartet - the United States, European Union, United Nations and Russia - met on Tuesday at the UN's headquarters in New York to discuss a way forward in the negotiations.
"The Quartet noted that the commendable Israeli settlement moratorium instituted last November has had a positive impact and urged its continuation," a statement issued afterwards said.
"The Quartet encouraged the parties to work together to find a way to ensure that negotiations continue in a constructive manner."
More than 430,000 settlers in the West Bank and East Jerusalem, alongside 2.5 million Palestinians
20,000 settlers live in the Golan Heights Settlements and the area they take up cover 40% of the West Bank There are about 100 settlements not authorised by the Israeli government in the West Bank
New York (CNN) -- U.S. officials and diplomatic sources say Mideast peace envoy George Mitchell is working with Israelis and Palestinians on a formula for settlements before the moratorium on building in the West Bank expires at the end of the month.
Nobody expects the best case scenerio, which would be for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to sign off on a blanket extention of the agreement. But they also don't expect the worst: settlement construction to resume full throttle, causing Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas to walk out of peace talks.
In between the black and white, the United States is looking for a shade of gray that will satisfy each leader's political considerations. Netanyahu needs something to show his cabinet that some continued restraint on settlement activity is worth it. And in order to justifying stay at the table, Abbas needs assurance Netanyahu is serious about the talks.
Several ideas are being discussed. For example Netanyahu could go along with some sort of deal on settlements for an acknowledgement by Abbas the talks will eventually recognize Israel as the home of the Jewish people. Abbas might be satisfied with some additional control in the West Bank for his Palestinian security forces.The problem, U.S. officials and diplomatic sources say, is neither side has admitted its bottom line. That leaves Mitchel in a race against the clock to come up with the right set of "confidence-building measures" to keep the leaders talking. And those negotiations are likely to come down to the wire
The world sponsors of the Middle East peace process have urged Israel to extend a construction halt in West Bank settlements to support recently-renewed peace talks.
"The Quartet noted that the commendable Israeli settlement moratorium instituted last November has had a positive impact and urged its continuation," it said in a statement after its representatives met on the sidelines of the UN General Assembly.
The Palestinians have repeatedly said they would not continue the peace talks with Israel if the Jewish state resumes construction in the occupied West Bank, where the Palestinians wish to form their future state.
Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu has nevertheless refused so far to extend a 10-month moratorium on construction which is set to expire next week.The Quartet, comprising of the United States, the European Union, Russia and the United Nations, also urged both sides to "promote an environment conducive to progress, including by refraining from provocative actions and inflammatory rhetoric
As Moe and Larry have already said, and its true, the Palestinians have no tangible bargaining points. They have been beaten militarily 15 years or more. Israel is playing a charade to make there appear to be "war" so as to steal more land. Sophomorish trick but effective.
What Israel won't pick up on are the real advantages of a "Just and Honorable" peace.
Credability, Respect, The Opportunity to usher in a "new age" of compassion and understanding between faiths. Not just Jew and Muslim, but all religions.
A chance for the Holy Land to once again be Holy.
Yes "Peanut Jimmy" as Larry calls him would love to be part of the "Just and Honorable" resolution to this vicious stalemate. As would the world. The ball is squarely in Israels court.
SilverBirch Forum Posts (3,158)
RE: Is the Holy Land ,..Holy?