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it's even creepier in my books that people being christian and swearing on its dogma, inadvertantly become accomplices in the biggest psychological manuever for power known to man... well ... known to some men


places everybody! and ..... action!!

You're right, it's only part of the whole. I agree, fear is an effective/powerful weapon for control and manipulation, whether it's politics, religion, or losing your starting job at quarterback etc...

I totally understand your point now.
Fear keeps certain people in a lower vibration and unable to think for themselves. So they subscribe to what they think is right for them while ignoring all other possibilities, especially from within.

My point kinda intertwines with yours. Some people that I have observed, say they are Christian so they set up some kind of moral wall around them in which they project themselves as good people as well as to wipe out their moral injustices...and like you said, a few of them have no clue to what Christianity is based on and who/how it divides. I'm referring to the ones who don't go to church or read the bible or can give a flying fuck about practicing Christianity...especially forgiveness, love, understanding and unconditional love.

The religious fear concept keeps certain people from looking within and saving themselves, so they look outward and put their hope outward on some outside source and sit back and expect only good things to happen to them. Meanwhile, they will defend their truth tooth and nail....mostly out of fear and judgment.

right .. and write on!

they defend itas well because the book uses cult mechanisms to keep them in the fold, such as dont give up the faith, dont let others lead you away ... of course Im not quoting verbatum, but the indoctrination and the psychological shakles to hold onto them are there and christians spout them all the time here, hoping to keep their fellow christians in the fold with them.

Man, I thought you had cracked some code in the bible and would offer some radical theory that would change the world or something.

You raise a very critical and good point. There are all kinds of references in the old and new testament about receiving God's wrath or not going to heaven if you don't do this or that. The use the heaven/hell scenario to really conform people to carry on their dogma. I do subscribe to the heaven-hell scenario, but I see it as a state of mind in the present world of right here right now. Not tomorrow in some abstract heaven that Christians/Muslims/Jews talk about that is based on the afterlife.

anytime you support their dogma you inadvertantly add fuel to their power mongering purposes ...


... the OP still stands unanswered and there has been no christian or other person answer the question. The bible shows very clearly why the USA and their right wing christian bulletheads covet ... errrrm, I mean protect Isreal.

There are a lot of obvious reasons and they've been mentioned and I have hinted at the real reason but no one has specifically deliniated the biblical correlation of these two not so random variables.

ohhhh ....it's world changing if they are allowed either by ignorance or design to accomplish the intent.

sunday school

Well if Isreal falls, a couple thousand years of pushing prophecies also fails. The promised land, the chosen people, the seat pf power and all of that control cease to mesmorise the masses.

Too close to the prize now to stop.

Not being a fundamentalist or in a box at all this was some things I found out searching today;

http://thereitis.org/displayarticle255.html

Evangelicals Shape U.S. Foreign Policy

The vast majority of Jews desperately want to avoid a full-scale conflagration between Israel and the Arab world. Dispensationalists don't. In the dispensationalist narrative, Christians will be raptured to heaven before all the fighting between Jews and Muslims starts. Everyone left will face mass death and destruction... Thus evangelical Christians' support for policies like the permanent takeover the West Bank and Gaza and even, in some cases, the expulsion of Palestinians into Jordan, should be understood in the context of a worldview in which world war is inevitable.....

Dispensationalist Christians believe that this is all in the service of establishing the reign of Christ on earth. Yet while they chase this fantasy, they're content to put real lives -- Jewish lives -- on the line. "It doesn't make me feel any better when they tell me to keep the whole West Bank when I don't think that's for the benefit of Israel politically," says [Israeli journalist] Gorenberg. "When somebody's hope for where Israeli policy will lead is Armageddon, clearly they're going to be judging things differently."

For now, as Jews and evangelicals work together, those differences might not matter. Yet as American government support of the mujahedin shows, realpolitik partnerships against metaphysical evil can turn rancid. When people believe their politics are endorsed by God, today's ally can be tomorrow's Satan.
.

Antichrist politics
May 24, 2002 | Salon.com

For many fervent Christians, support for Israel has less to do with Ariel Sharon than preparing for Armageddon.

by Michelle Goldberg

From the Senate floor, Sen. James Inhofe, R-Okla., preached what was essentially a sermon about Israel last December. "The Bible says that Abram removed his tent, and came and dwelt in the plain of Mamre, which is in Hebron, and built there an altar before the Lord," he said. "Hebron is in the West Bank. It is at this place where God appeared to Abram and said, 'I am giving you this land' ... This is not a political battle at all. It is a contest over whether or not the word of God is true."

As Inhofe's speech suggested, for elements of the Christian right, pro-Israel fervor has ascended to the realm of the sacred. Christian leaders Ralph Reed and Gary Bauer both say that their support of Israel -- and Israeli expansionism -- is partly rooted in biblical injunction. Bauer says, "There are a variety of Old Testament scriptures in which God is saying to Abraham that the people of Israel will occupy all the land between the sea and the river," which he says means the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River. "There's a belief that this is covenant land," he adds....






http://thereitis.org/displayarticle255.html

Next and this is creepy;

http://www.lewrockwell.com/north/north188.html

"BETTER THEM THAN US!"

What is rarely discussed publicly by Jews or fundamentalists is the fundamentalists' view of the looming cost to Israelis for their return to Palestine. Fundamentalists believe that the Great Tribulation will wipe out two-thirds of the Jews in Israel. Hence, to encourage their return to the State of Israel is to encourage their destruction.

John Walvoord, who died in 2002, served for three decades as the president of Dallas Theological Seminary, the largest and best-known dispensational seminary (founded, 1924). He was the author of numerous books, both academic and popular, on dispensational prophecy. He taught Hal Lindsey, who attended Dallas Seminary. Here is his assessment of the future of Israelis.

The purge of Israel in their time of trouble is described by Zechariah in these words: "And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith Jehovah, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein. And I will bring the third part into the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried" (Zechariah 13:8, 9). According to Zechariah's prophecy, two thirds of the children of Israel in the land will perish, but the one third that are left will be refined and be awaiting the deliverance of God at the second coming of Christ which is described in the next chapter of Zechariah. (John F. Walvoord, Israel in Prophecy [Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 1988], p. 108.

Nothing will be done by Christians to save Israel's Jews from this disaster, for all of the Christians will have been removed from this world three and a half years prior to the beginning of this 42-month period of tribulation. The only Christians present at that time will be recent converts to the faith, who had been left behind as non-believers at the time of the Rapture.

Therefore, in order for most of today's Christians to escape physical death, two-thirds of the Jews in Israel must perish, soon. This is the grim prophetic trade-off that fundamentalists rarely discuss publicly, but which is the central motivation in the movement's political support for the State of Israel.

It should be clear why they believe that Israel must be defended at all costs by the West. If Israel were removed militarily from history prior to the Rapture, then the strongest case for Christians' imminent escape from death would have to be abandoned. This would mean the indefinite delay of the Rapture. The fundamentalist movement thrives on the doctrine of the imminent Rapture, not the indefinitely postponed Rapture.

Every time you hear the phrase, "Jesus is coming back soon," you should mentally add, "and two-thirds of the Jews of Israel will be dead in `soon plus 84 months.'" Fundamentalists really do believe that they probably will not die physically, but to secure this faith prophetically, they must accept the doctrine of an inevitable future holocaust....

seats of power can be moved, (and have been) but you're close in a 'mirrorred' sense.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/north/north188.html

Should anything happen to remove Israel from the Middle East during the lifetimes of these people, then the expected Great Tribulation will have to be postponed, probably for centuries, until another State of Israel is established. The appearance of the State of Israel in 1948 would then turn out to have been an eschatologically irrelevant political event.

Should Israel ever be "pushed into the sea," these people will have to face what the rest of us began facing early in life: the prospect of our statistically inescapable physical death.... This belief in death-free living is the rarely stated psychological motivation behind American fundamentalism's unwavering support of the State of Israel.

... the Church Age will end with the Rapture of living saints into heaven. The millennial age, which will be marked by Christ's bodily presence, will not be a church age, but will be a restored Davidic kingdom. It will even involve the restoration of the Temple sacrifices – as memorials, however, not as redemptive sacrifices. As Scofield writes in one of his notes, "Doubtless these offerings will be memorial, looking back to the cross. . . ." (Scofield Reference Bible, p. 890n).

TIMING THE GREAT ESCAPE

According to Scofield's note to I Corinthians 15:52, the first resurrection of the dead will accompany the death-free translation of living Christians into their eternal condition. He writes:

The "first resurrection," that "unto life," will occur at the second coming of Christ (I Cor. 15. 23), the saints of the O.T. and church ages meeting Him in the air. . . . The bodies of living believers will, at the same time, be instantly changed (I Cor. 15. 52–53; Phil. 3. 20–21). This "change" of the living, and the resurrection of the dead in Christ, is called "the redemption of the body" (Rom. 8. 23; Eph. 1. 13, 14).

The crucial question is this: When will this event take place? It will take place before the beginning of the Great Tribulation, which will last three and a half years. In his note to Revelation 7:14, Scofield writes regarding the duration of the Great Tribulation, . . .

The great tribulation is immediately followed by the return of Christ in glory, and all the events associated therewith (

But how long before the 42-month Great Tribulation begins will the invisible second coming take place, the one that allows Christians to avoid death and the grave? Exactly 42 months. This is because this coming dispensation, according to dispensationalists, is the fulfillment of the prophecy of the seventieth week of Daniel (Dan. 9:24), a week of seven years. Scofield's note says:

When the Church-age will end, and the seventieth week begin, is nowhere revealed. Its duration can be but seven years. (

Ever since the creation of the State of Israel in 1948, fundamentalists have lost their reticence in dating the end of the Church Age. They have rejoiced in the presumably fast-approaching fulfillment of Bible prophecy during which, in Scofield's words, "the people of God who will have returned to Palestine in unbelief." Why such rejoicing? Because, if a Christian can make it to the day, exactly three and a half years before this fulfillment takes place, he will not suffer death.

This is why fundamentalists send money to Jewish organizations that bring Russian Jews to the State of Israel. They want to speed up the process. One of these programs, "On Wings of Eagles," is sponsored by Rabbi Yechiel Eckstein's International Fellowship of Christians and Jews. In 2002, he joined with Ralph Reed, the former political technician for Pat Robertson's grass-roots political training organization, Christian Coalition, to create Stand for Israel. Reed today is Chairman of the Georgia Republican Party.

it is creepy indeed ... places everybody! It's not something that fundies and extremist right wing bulletheads will asnwer to... and we haven't seen any christians come here and speak about it have we? God, Love, Fellowman ..CRAP! Their not saving them from anihalation, their being protected for anihalation, another move in their takeover of the illusory control of gods.

This is what really steams me about people becoming christians (any religion for that matter) and spouting dogma. They are whether they realise it, supporters of this BS. Accomplices by acknowledgement. You can be a good moral person without dogma, without god and certainly without mindlessly supporting the agenda of power brokers.

Nice piece Sky, I hadn't read that one before..

Thanks and BUMP

Have you digested that post yet? What do you think Egypt's part in this drama is?

To clarify, I have Jewish friends, and I wasn't being demeaning at all, but pointing out a fact. There's a lot of money spent to this end by the wealthy Jewish families of this country. I would never demean any religion's followers.

This is an area that I need to learn a lot more about because my views seem to be so different then what seems to be the views of the majority.

What my understanding is, is that after the war there were a bunch of displaced Jewish people that no one wanted. So the countries that didn´t want them decided to pick a spot to give to them. There were some bible references to a spot in the middle of a bunch of countries that were predominantly Muslem, where Palestinians had lived for years... had homes, business´s etc. but they had to leave to give that land to the Jewish people that no one wanted.

The size of the new country was never viable to be a self sustaining country so they kept taking more and more land from Palestine, when Palestinian people got upset and started to fight to keep their land America gave the Isralies lots of money and weapons in order to keep taking land...

I must be missing something because I really don´t see how Palestine has become the bad guy in all this...

I mean in America everyone owns a gun and if anyone tries to take their home, land or property feel quite justified in using it, why are the Palestinians just expected to give up their homes, land and property without a fight?

I oculd be wrong about chronology but the order of empires and the story of gods/saviors began in Mesopatamia, the Sumarians, then the Persians, greeks, then Egypt before the Romans conqured them and took over the story from them, changed the saviors name to christ to appease the Jews and have since severely edited the bible (that original story started in Sumar). So what Empire claims ownership of this story now? Aren't many empires around are there ...

Anceint knowledge...Summerian.

I'll claim it, send me your gold and your women!


Do I really need an empire to do this?