Some Good Economic News (19)
Well considering National Irish Bank needs about 10 Billion Euro long term I think thats a drop in the ocean?
floressea: Well considering National Irish Bank needs about 10 Billion Euro long term I think thats a drop in the ocean?
SORRY. Anglo Irish Bank.....
where pretty much screwed with lack of jobs theres people leaving in droves out to other countries for work
irelands manufactering has seriously lacked especially with the loss of the sugar factory in carlow and mallow as sugar factory in carlow was a big employer
how are we to pay these debts if theres not much work out there?
maybe there trying to tax there way outta this
irelands manufactering has seriously lacked especially with the loss of the sugar factory in carlow and mallow as sugar factory in carlow was a big employer
how are we to pay these debts if theres not much work out there?
maybe there trying to tax there way outta this
floressea: Well considering Anglo Irish Bank needs about 10 Billion Euro long term I think thats a drop in the ocean?
This isn't anything to do with Anglo Irish Bank; what these Bonds are is effect an IOU/Loan with an guaranteed interest rate and a defined cash value on a specified date. They generally are used to fund long term projects such as State Infrastructure, pension funds or anticipated shortfalls in the future that can be made up at a later date. The bodies who buy these can either use them as collateral for loans of their own, as an source of income or they can opt to sell them on to interested parties if they require cash.
Strong Bond sales tend to show strong economic potential of a country in the same way strong share prices would reflect that of a company.
Losty: This isn't anything to do with Anglo Irish Bank; what these Bonds are is effect an IOU/Loan with an guaranteed interest rate and a defined cash value on a specified date. They generally are used to fund long term projects such as State Infrastructure, pension funds or anticipated shortfalls in the future that can be made up at a later date. The bodies who buy these can either use them as collateral for loans of their own, as an source of income or they can opt to sell them on to interested parties if they require cash.
Strong Bond sales tend to show strong economic potential of a country in the same way strong share prices would reflect that of a company.
Strong Bond sales tend to show strong economic potential of a country in the same way strong share prices would reflect that of a company.
I know they are not directly linked to any banks. I was just saying that it is a drop in the ocean compared to the 65 billion given to NAMA. That 65 billion could have been used for these things you have mentioned.
floressea: I know they are not directly linked to any banks. I was just saying that it is a drop in the ocean compared to the 65 billion given to NAMA. That 65 billion could have been used for these things you have mentioned.
Welcome to the threads
ladylumps: Welcome to the threads
Thanks
ladylumps: Welcome to the threads
My brain is hurting again. So we've printed bonds or promisary notes to allow us to borrow the money to repay the money that we've borrowed in the first place and that money is to be used to top up the pension fund that we were told was ring fenced and would never never never never ever be raided for other purposes.
Would it not just have been easier to buy an old printing press and rattle off a load of fake euros!
floressea: I know they are not directly linked to any banks. I was just saying that it is a drop in the ocean compared to the 65 billion given to NAMA. That 65 billion could have been used for these things you have mentioned.
Not that it has anything to do with this but NAMA actually has not been given any money.
Losty: Not that it has anything to do with this but NAMA actually has not been given any money.
Ok splitting hairs here. NAMA has taken on all the Irish Banks book of building loans which comes to 65 billion approx. I know what NAMA is for. Trust me.
All I am saying is the money created by this new incentive is a drop in the ocean compared to what the tax payer is giving to financial institution over a period of time. Can we agree on that or do you want to split more hairs?
Godsgift: My brain is hurting again. So we've printed bonds or promisary notes to allow us to borrow the money to repay the money that we've borrowed in the first place and that money is to be used to top up the pension fund that we were told was ring fenced and would never never never never ever be raided for other purposes.
Would it not just have been easier to buy an old printing press and rattle off a load of fake euros!
Would it not just have been easier to buy an old printing press and rattle off a load of fake euros!
Bond issuing is as old as the hills and is done by every world economy.
What it is doing is trading an up front payment on proposed national growth over a long defined period. As with investing in savings accounts, gold bullion or shares or whatever, you buy based on the risk of growth or loss and your chance of recouping your investment while the body issuing the bond expects to have enough growth to cover their honoured debt to the bondholder. Unlike printing cash which only has it's cover value, a bond has scope to grow in value, hence it's lure to be bought.
The pension fund is ring fenced insofar as it's pension money but to make it grow in line with inflation it has to be used to grow otherwise there isn't enough of it. More often than not, pensions funds are invested in State Bonds as they are a safe long term investment; this is how countries OAP rates can and do increase
Losty: Bond issuing is as old as the hills and is done by every world economy.
What it is doing is trading an up front payment on proposed national growth over a long defined period. As with investing in savings accounts, gold bullion or shares or whatever, you buy based on the risk of growth or loss and your chance of recouping your investment while the body issuing the bond expects to have enough growth to cover their honoured debt to the bondholder. Unlike printing cash which only has it's cover value, a bond has scope to grow in value, hence it's lure to be bought.
The pension fund is ring fenced insofar as it's pension money but to make it grow in line with inflation it has to be used to grow otherwise there isn't enough of it. More often than not, pensions funds are invested in State Bonds as they are a safe long term investment; this is how countries OAP rates can and do increase
What it is doing is trading an up front payment on proposed national growth over a long defined period. As with investing in savings accounts, gold bullion or shares or whatever, you buy based on the risk of growth or loss and your chance of recouping your investment while the body issuing the bond expects to have enough growth to cover their honoured debt to the bondholder. Unlike printing cash which only has it's cover value, a bond has scope to grow in value, hence it's lure to be bought.
The pension fund is ring fenced insofar as it's pension money but to make it grow in line with inflation it has to be used to grow otherwise there isn't enough of it. More often than not, pensions funds are invested in State Bonds as they are a safe long term investment; this is how countries OAP rates can and do increase
But is there not a huge interest rate on a bond issue? Most Bond Issues are to private investors who normally demand at least 11% return PA on their money. I know the recent Bond Issue by Man U has an interest rate of about 14% PA.
Losty: Bond issuing is as old as the hills and is done by every world economy.
What it is doing is trading an up front payment on proposed national growth over a long defined period. As with investing in savings accounts, gold bullion or shares or whatever, you buy based on the risk of growth or loss and your chance of recouping your investment while the body issuing the bond expects to have enough growth to cover their honoured debt to the bondholder. Unlike printing cash which only has it's cover value, a bond has scope to grow in value, hence it's lure to be bought.
The pension fund is ring fenced insofar as it's pension money but to make it grow in line with inflation it has to be used to grow otherwise there isn't enough of it. More often than not, pensions funds are invested in State Bonds as they are a safe long term investment; this is how countries OAP rates can and do increase
What it is doing is trading an up front payment on proposed national growth over a long defined period. As with investing in savings accounts, gold bullion or shares or whatever, you buy based on the risk of growth or loss and your chance of recouping your investment while the body issuing the bond expects to have enough growth to cover their honoured debt to the bondholder. Unlike printing cash which only has it's cover value, a bond has scope to grow in value, hence it's lure to be bought.
The pension fund is ring fenced insofar as it's pension money but to make it grow in line with inflation it has to be used to grow otherwise there isn't enough of it. More often than not, pensions funds are invested in State Bonds as they are a safe long term investment; this is how countries OAP rates can and do increase
Now my brain hurts, my eyes are crossed and there's a little train runing around inside of my head. Please don't explain any more to me. La La La La La...There is a happy place, far far away!
floressea: Ok splitting hairs here. NAMA has taken on all the Irish Banks book of building loans which comes to 65 billion approx. I know what NAMA is for. Trust me.
All I am saying is the money created by this new incentive is a drop in the ocean compared to what the tax payer is giving to financial institution over a period of time. Can we agree on that or do you want to split more hairs?
All I am saying is the money created by this new incentive is a drop in the ocean compared to what the tax payer is giving to financial institution over a period of time. Can we agree on that or do you want to split more hairs?
No we can't agree. NAMA is taking on property loans from most of our banks. NTMA is selling Bonds to fund normal day to day spending, infrastructural projects, etc; in short todays bond sales are nothing to do with NAMA.
Losty: No we can't agree. NAMA is taking on property loans from most of our banks. NTMA is selling Bonds to fund normal day to day spending, infrastructural projects, etc; in short todays bond sales are nothing to do with NAMA.
I know they are nothing to do with NAMA.
Are you slow????? What I am saying is the money rasied from the bond issue is a drop in the ocean compared to what the tax payer is paying to bail out financial istitutions. If we did not have to bail these banks out we would have money for all the things this bond issue is for. Hence we would not need the bloody bond issue. Now has that sunk in? 
floressea: But is there not a huge interest rate on a bond issue? Most Bond Issues are to private investors who normally demand at least 11% return PA on their money. I know the recent Bond Issue by Man U has an interest rate of about 14% PA.
And you know what reason it had for a 14% rate? Because it's a bad investment risk and it's aiming as venture markets and idiots who need to pay back that time share they bought off the Readers Digest, that's why.
High interest=High risk. State bonds sell well if they are safe risks and today proves that Ireland is a safe risk. Any trader knows that a loss is a loss but a gain is a happy client
floressea: I know they are nothing to do with NAMA. Are you slow????? What I am saying is the money rasied from the bond issue is a drop in the ocean compared to what the tax payer is paying to bail out financial istitutions. If we did not have to bail these banks out we would have money for all the things this bond issue is for. Hence we would not need the bloody bond issue. Now has that sunk in?
welcome to the forums...oh hang on welcome back
irish1978eyes: welcome to the forums...oh hang on welcome back
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Created: Mar 2010
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The sale of a 4.6 per cent 2016 bond and a 4.5 per cent 2020 bond was expected to raise between €1 billion and €1.5 billion. The auction was the third auction of a series of planned monthly bond auctions as part of the NTMA's €20 billion funding programme for 2010.
Total bids for the issue were €4.915 billion, 3.3 times the amount on offer. The 4.6 per cent treasury bond for 2016 was oversubscribed 4.5 times the amount allocated, while €1 billion of the 4.5 per cent bond for 2020 was issued, with bids of 2.6 times the allocated amount received.
The 2016 bond was sold at an average yield of 3.479 per cent while the 2020 bond was sold at an average yield of 4.426 per cent.
Bloxham economist Alan McQuaid said the NTMA was in a "very comfortable and enviable position".
"As we have said on numerous occasions recently, one has to admire the NTMA’s opportunism in exploiting the current goodwill towards Ireland within the financial markets that appears evident following the fiscal austerity measures announced in the December Budget. Indeed, the indications are that the NTMA will try to raise as much as possible in 2010 and pre-fund some of next year’s expected funding requirement, which at this stage looks like being about €22 billion," he said.
He said despite the EU's apparent willingness to help bail out Greece if its budgetary position deteriorates further in the coming months, there was a risk that the "non-core" euro zone countries would be viewed the same as Greece.
"This would then lead to a significant widening of bond yield spreads over Germany going forward. Therefore, the NTMA’s decision to ‘strike while the iron is hot’ is a positive step, significantly easing the funding burden over the remainder of 2010," he said.
"The onus is now on the Government to do its bit, and continue with the correct fiscal austerity measures to tackle the budget deficit. If the Government can do that and send out the right signals in the process, then the NTMA’s job will become easier, and Irish government bond yield spreads over Germany will narrow further."
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