torture? ( Archived) (799)

Jan 31, 2011 7:44 AM CST torture?
leigh2154
leigh2154leigh2154Crossville, Tennessee USA5 Threads 6,408 Posts
mnowsa: fair enough. since you brought up the issue of national security, i have a simple question: if the national security comes at the expense of other coutries' security, then should the threatened countries should consider the USA as a threat to their national securites? i have no problem if the USA wants to deals with its security the best possible ways but why the security has to come by lying to its own people? why the US government can't take its own people into confidence?


Mnowsa, I have stated this before and on other threads....some things cannot be divulged to the public...it is only common sense! That is why information "world wide" is labeled classified, top secret, etc...it is not just the US mnosa...we are focused on more because we have more "transparency" than most countries, especially those who wish us harm......

Yes, if national security comes at the expense of a/any "peace abiding" county's security, the threatened "peace abiding" country should consider us a threat...but that is not the case mnowsa......doh
------ This thread is Archived ------
Jan 31, 2011 7:45 AM CST torture?
trish123
trish123trish123Macclesfield, Cheshire, England UK177 Threads 4 Polls 13,724 Posts
bodleing: I see you're up to speed on your insulting behaviour though.


Thats what they do when they cant attack the arguments, they attack the poster instead in the hope they will make us cry and run to mummy hahaha - well, I got news for them, I never had a mommy so Im quite used to sticking it out on my own - well, actually, not on my own, Ive just had some beautiful letters thanking me for for what Ive just been saying and standing up to the bullies in here........
------ This thread is Archived ------
Jan 31, 2011 7:46 AM CST torture?
mnowsa
mnowsamnowsaRajshahi, Rajshahi Division Bangladesh145 Threads 3 Polls 7,536 Posts
leigh2154: Really mnowsa, much more aware?....to be aware a person has to look at "all" sides of the issue and be able to assimilate the facts correctly.....



yes..i do believe that people are much more aware now. up until now, only one side was scoring the goals in an opponentless field. And that's why we didn't get to hear all these uproar and buzzes all those times simply because they could go to any extreme without any challenge. But now, inevitably as an opposite and equal force, another team(truth-seeker) has arrived into the field. It is possible that the truth-seeker team does go to extrem too sometime but what else can be expected when the other team has so frequently gone to the extremes? thumbs up
------ This thread is Archived ------
Jan 31, 2011 7:54 AM CST torture?
mnowsa
mnowsamnowsaRajshahi, Rajshahi Division Bangladesh145 Threads 3 Polls 7,536 Posts
trish123: The anger spilling into the streets of Cairo, Suez, Alexandria and other cities was focused like a laser beam on President Hosni Mubarak on Friday. As the protests move forward, however, the resentment is spreading beyond Mubarak and his immediate underlings, and toward the United States and Israel.

It isn’t hard to see why. The United States has been backing the Mubarak regime to the tune of billions of dollars over the past three decades, and even with scores dead and the regime’s legitimacy in tatters, US officials are still demanding Mubarak remain in power, though maybe with some trivial reforms.

And while Israel, for its part, is staying as officially quiet as is humanly possible about a massive revolt along its western border, beyond wondering how it snuck up on them, Obama Administration officials are continually citing Israel as the reason they are opposing regime change in Egypt.

As the Obama Administration digs in more and more in supporting Mubarak, it seems that they are fueling more resentment against them and, consequently, are all the more afraid that the inevitable regime change will have negative consequences for US-Egypt relations.

oh silly me, wrong thread




business as usual. isn't it? while obama is digging more in supporting mubarak, the CIA and the Mosad is working day and night to arouse and tempt(in disguise of course) the 'islamist' to take over just so israel can forget about a palestinian state and start cracking down on those poor helpless palestinians in the name of 'destroying' hamas. Mind you, israel will never get rid of hamas because if they do so, they won't have a reason to steal more and more land and crack down on the palestinians.cheers
------ This thread is Archived ------
Jan 31, 2011 7:56 AM CST torture?
leigh2154
leigh2154leigh2154Crossville, Tennessee USA5 Threads 6,408 Posts
mnowsa: yes..i do believe that people are much more aware now. up until now, only one side was scoring the goals in an opponentless field. And that's why we didn't get to hear all these uproar and buzzes all those times simply because they could go to any extreme without any challenge. But now, inevitably as an opposite and equal force, another team(truth-seeker) has arrived into the field. It is possible that the truth-seeker team does go to extrem too sometime but what else can be expected when the other team has so frequently gone to the extremes?


This is a good thought mnowsa,but it is only a thought.....there are many variables in your statement "only one side was scoring goals" people jump thread all time time and for a variety of reasons,,,often their reasoning has nothing to do with the topic and where they shake out, it is more about picking the side of a person they like better... or a person they resent for some reason, or a person who's picture bothers them for some reason.......YOU CANNOT PUT EVERYTHING INTO BLACK AND WHITE my friend....going to extremes to support a belief...why is that a problem for you...if you can't take the heat, leave the kitchen... it is an excellent way to debate...and the only way to debate if the debate is to have any positive effect on people and where they stand on an issue....
------ This thread is Archived ------
Jan 31, 2011 8:00 AM CST torture?
DeusExMachina
DeusExMachinaDeusExMachinahaaltert, Oost Vlaanderen Belgium55 Threads 1 Polls 2,705 Posts
"The universe appears to me like an immense, inexorable torture-garden. Passions, greed, hatred, and lies; law, social institutions, justice, love, glory, heroism, and religion: these are its monstrous flowers and its hideous instruments of eternal human suffering."
Octave Mirbeau
Blues63: The search for logic and balance continues....
------ This thread is Archived ------
Jan 31, 2011 8:01 AM CST torture?
trish123
trish123trish123Macclesfield, Cheshire, England UK177 Threads 4 Polls 13,724 Posts
We have learned that when something is getting som much attention in the media that theres usually something else going down thats being kept quiet - I didnt dig long enough to find the dirt on the US Soldiers but heres what the British ones are up to while theyre mithering about leaked docs; Do the American soldiers get searched des anybody know cos all this heroin on our streets is getting here somehow.

Detectives investigate UK troops thought to be smuggling drugs on military planes
By Eliot Sefton
LAST UPDATED 2:58 PM, SEPTEMBER 12, 2010
Share

Military police are investigating allegations that some British troops returning from duty in Afghanistan are involved in drug trafficking, bringing heroin home with them on flights coming into RAF Brize Norton.

The MoD is taking the claims seriously, increasing the use of sniffer dogs and body and luggage searches on flights which bring 700 troops a week back from Helmand. The checks are so rigorous the MoD has apologised to innocent troops for the inconvenience.

The Hampshire-based Special Investigations branch of the MoD’s military police started their investigation after receiving a tip-off that a network of UK soldiers is buying drugs from dealers in Afghanistan. The investigation centres on British and Canadian troops based at Kandahar’s Camp Bastion.

An MoD spokesman said: “We take any such reports very seriously and we have already tightened our existing procedures, both in Afghanistan and in the UK, including through increasing the use of sniffer dogs.”

Robert Fox, The First Post's defence correspondent, said the revelation was, if anything, somewhat overdue: "If it's true, it comes as no surprise. The use of heroin - and the peddling of it - were rife in the Red Army when the Russians occupied Afghanistan.”

There is also a long tradition of profiteering among soldiers – as portrayed, fictionally, in Joseph Heller’s Catch 22 where mess officer Lt Minderbinder buys and sells his way around the globe.

Opium growing is worth £2bn a year in Afghanistan, which produces 90 per cent of the world supply. Of that, more than half is grown in Helmand province. One Afghan drug dealer spoke to the Sunday Times last year. Identified only as Aziz, he said: “Most of our other customers, apart from drug lords in foreign countries, are the military. The soldiers whose term of duty is about to finish, they give an order to our boss.

“As I have heard, they are carrying these drugs in the military airlines and they can’t be reached because they are military. They can take it to the USA or England.”

Read more:
------ This thread is Archived ------
Jan 31, 2011 8:03 AM CST torture?
mnowsa
mnowsamnowsaRajshahi, Rajshahi Division Bangladesh145 Threads 3 Polls 7,536 Posts
leigh2154: This is a good thought mnowsa,but it is only a thought.....there are many variables in your statement "only one side was scoring goals" people jump thread all time time and for a variety of reasons,,,often their reasoning has nothing to do with the topic and where they shake out, it is more about picking the side of a person they like better... or a person they resent for some reason, or a person who's picture bothers them for some reason.......YOU CANNOT PUT EVERYTHING INTO BLACK AND WHITE my friend....going to extremes to support a belief...why is that a problem for you...if you can't take the heat, leave the kitchen... it is an excellent way to debate...and the only way to debate if the debate is to have any positive effect on people and where they stand on an issue....


oh..i don't have a problem if some people go to extrem to hide the truth. all i am saying that if there is a team to hide the truth NOW(there was no team to seek the truth before as we have now), there certainly is a team as well to seek the truth. My point is people didn't create such buzz about seeking the truth before as they are doing it today. And that's why the team that are used to hiding the truth all the times are desperatecheers
------ This thread is Archived ------
Jan 31, 2011 8:06 AM CST torture?
time4fun4u
time4fun4utime4fun4uAlicante, Valencia Spain18 Threads 1 Polls 10,066 Posts
Whats up with everyone! Chill! Flirting,laughing,friendly banter is what this site should be about,isnt it? Yes,there will be differences of opinions,but just let them be that.
Make love,not war!yay yay yay
------ This thread is Archived ------
Jan 31, 2011 8:07 AM CST torture?
leigh2154
leigh2154leigh2154Crossville, Tennessee USA5 Threads 6,408 Posts
mnowsa: oh..i don't have a problem if some people go to extrem to hide the truth. all i am saying that if there is a team to hide the truth NOW(there was no team to seek the truth before as we have now), there certainly is a team as well to seek the truth. My point is people didn't create such buzz about seeking the truth before as they are doing it today. And that's why the team that are used to hiding the truth all the times are desperate


mnowas, I can't say for a fact that you have read the complete thread, but it "appears" that you have not .......when you speak about "teams"...I am at a complete loss.....I do not see that "angle" in this thread at all.....and I have and always will speak for myself.......bouquet
------ This thread is Archived ------
Jan 31, 2011 8:11 AM CST torture?
mnowsa
mnowsamnowsaRajshahi, Rajshahi Division Bangladesh145 Threads 3 Polls 7,536 Posts
leigh2154: mnowas, I can't say for a fact that you have read the complete thread, but it "appears" that you have not .......when you speak about "teams"...I am at a complete loss.....I do not see that "angle" in this thread at all.....and I have and always will speak for myself.......


actually i have managed to read most of the posts..i guess we are in diametrically opposite sides on this particular issue of torturing and national security, and i can absolutely respect that. I am sure you may also have some very points but i guess i just didn't manage to understand it or put it in proper contexthandshake peace
------ This thread is Archived ------
Jan 31, 2011 8:18 AM CST torture?
leigh2154
leigh2154leigh2154Crossville, Tennessee USA5 Threads 6,408 Posts
trish123: We have learned that when something is getting som much attention in the media that theres usually something else going down thats being kept quiet - I didnt dig long enough to find the dirt on the US Soldiers but heres what the British ones are up to while theyre mithering about leaked docs; Do the American soldiers get searched des anybody know cos all this heroin on our streets is getting here somehow.

Detectives investigate UK troops thought to be smuggling drugs on military planes
By Eliot Sefton
LAST UPDATED 2:58 PM, SEPTEMBER 12, 2010
Share

Military police are investigating allegations that some British troops returning from duty in Afghanistan are involved in drug trafficking, bringing heroin home with them on flights coming into RAF Brize Norton.

The MoD is taking the claims seriously, increasing the use of sniffer dogs and body and luggage searches on flights which bring 700 troops a week back from Helmand. The checks are so rigorous the MoD has apologised to innocent troops for the inconvenience.

The Hampshire-based Special Investigations branch of the MoD’s military police started their investigation after receiving a tip-off that a network of UK soldiers is buying drugs from dealers in Afghanistan. The investigation centres on British and Canadian troops based at Kandahar’s Camp Bastion.

An MoD spokesman said: “We take any such reports very seriously and we have already tightened our existing procedures, both in Afghanistan and in the UK, including through increasing the use of sniffer dogs.”

Robert Fox, The First Post's defence correspondent, said the revelation was, if anything, somewhat overdue: "If it's true, it comes as no surprise. The use of heroin - and the peddling of it - were rife in the Red Army when the Russians occupied Afghanistan.”

There is also a long tradition of profiteering among soldiers – as portrayed, fictionally, in Joseph Heller’s Catch 22 where mess officer Lt Minderbinder buys and sells his way around the globe.

Opium growing is worth £2bn a year in Afghanistan, which produces 90 per cent of the world supply. Of that, more than half is grown in Helmand province. One Afghan drug dealer spoke to the Sunday Times last year. Identified only as Aziz, he said: “Most of our other customers, apart from drug lords in foreign countries, are the military. The soldiers whose term of duty is about to finish, they give an order to our boss.

“As I have heard, they are carrying these drugs in the military airlines and they can’t be reached because they are military. They can take it to the USA or England.”

Read more:



rolling on the floor laughing rolling on the floor laughing rolling on the floor laughing
------ This thread is Archived ------
Jan 31, 2011 8:19 AM CST torture?
leigh2154
leigh2154leigh2154Crossville, Tennessee USA5 Threads 6,408 Posts
mnowsa: actually i have managed to read most of the posts..i guess we are in diametrically opposite sides on this particular issue of torturing and national security, and i can absolutely respect that. I am sure you may also have some very points but i guess i just didn't manage to understand it or put it in proper context


And that, mnowsa is part of the process........teddybear teddybear


Smiling now!handshake hug
------ This thread is Archived ------
Jan 31, 2011 8:29 AM CST torture?
trish123
trish123trish123Macclesfield, Cheshire, England UK177 Threads 4 Polls 13,724 Posts
On Monday, April 5, Wikileaks.org posted video footage from Iraq, taken from a US military Apache helicopter in July 2007 as soldiers aboard it killed 12 people and wounded two children. The dead included two employees of the Reuters news agency: photographer Namir Noor-Eldeen and driver Saeed Chmagh.

The US military confirmed the authenticity of the video.

The footage clearly shows an unprovoked slaughter, and is shocking to watch whilst listening to the casual conversation of the soldiers in the background.

As disturbing as the video is, this type of behavior by US soldiers in Iraq is not uncommon.

Truthout has spoken with several soldiers who shared equally horrific stories of the slaughtering of innocent Iraqis by US occupation forces.

"I remember one woman walking by," said Jason Washburn, a corporal in the US Marines who served three tours in Iraq. He told the audience at the Winter Soldier hearings that took place March 13-16, 2008, in Silver Spring, Maryland, "She was carrying a huge bag, and she looked like she was heading toward us, so we lit her up with the Mark 19, which is an automatic grenade launcher, and when the dust settled, we realized that the bag was full of groceries. She had been trying to bring us food and we blew her to pieces."

The hearings provided a platform for veterans from Iraq and Afghanistan to share the reality of their occupation experiences with the media in the US.

Washburn testified on a panel that discussed the rules of engagement (ROE) in Iraq, and how lax they were, to the point of being virtually nonexistent.

"During the course of my three tours, the rules of engagement changed a lot," Washburn's testimony continued, "The higher the threat the more viciously we were permitted and expected to respond. Something else we were encouraged to do, almost with a wink and nudge, was to carry 'drop weapons', or by my third tour, 'drop shovels'. We would carry these weapons or shovels with us because if we accidentally shot a civilian, we could just toss the weapon on the body, and make them look like an insurgent."

Hart Viges, a member of the 82nd Airborne Division of the Army who served one year in Iraq, told of taking orders over the radio.

"One time they said to ?re on all taxicabs because the enemy was using them for transportation.... One of the snipers replied back, 'Excuse me? Did I hear that right? Fire on all taxicabs?' The lieutenant colonel responded, 'You heard me, trooper, ?re on all taxicabs.' After that, the town lit up, with all the units ?ring on cars. This was my ?rst experience with war, and that kind of set the tone for the rest of the deployment."

Vincent Emanuele, a Marine rifleman who spent a year in the al-Qaim area of Iraq near the Syrian border, told of emptying magazines of bullets into the city without identifying targets, running over corpses with Humvees and stopping to take "trophy" photos of bodies.

"An act that took place quite often in Iraq was taking pot shots at cars that drove by," he said, "This was not an isolated incident, and it took place for most of our eight-month deployment."

Kelly Dougherty - then executive director of Iraq Veterans Against the War - blamed the behavior of soldiers in Iraq on policies of the US government.

"The abuses committed in the occupations, far from being the result of a 'few bad apples' misbehaving, are the result of our government's Middle East policy, which is crafted in the highest spheres of US power,"



Theres loads more of this at the reference link

------ This thread is Archived ------
Jan 31, 2011 8:30 AM CST torture?
leigh2154
leigh2154leigh2154Crossville, Tennessee USA5 Threads 6,408 Posts
Buffy, torture is never OK......but.......... torture by US MILITARY has not happened.....not even close......
------ This thread is Archived ------
Jan 31, 2011 8:31 AM CST torture?
DeusExMachina
DeusExMachinaDeusExMachinahaaltert, Oost Vlaanderen Belgium55 Threads 1 Polls 2,705 Posts
"There is only one thing that arouses animals more than pleasure, and that is pain. Under torture you are as if under the dominion of those grasses that produce visions. Everything you have heard told, everything you have read returns to your mind, as if you were being transported, not toward heaven, but toward hell. Under torture you say not only what the inquisitor wants, but also what you imagine might please him, because a bond (this, truly, diabolical) is established between you and him."
Umberto Eco
------ This thread is Archived ------
Jan 31, 2011 8:31 AM CST torture?
bodleing
bodleingbodleingGreater Manchester, England UK238 Threads 8 Polls 13,810 Posts
What a childish and undignified manner some people use on here.


sigh
------ This thread is Archived ------
Jan 31, 2011 8:31 AM CST torture?
leigh2154
leigh2154leigh2154Crossville, Tennessee USA5 Threads 6,408 Posts
trish123: On Monday, April 5, Wikileaks.org posted video footage from Iraq, taken from a US military Apache helicopter in July 2007 as soldiers aboard it killed 12 people and wounded two children. The dead included two employees of the Reuters news agency: photographer Namir Noor-Eldeen and driver Saeed Chmagh.
Theres loads more of this at the reference link



rolling on the floor laughing rolling on the floor laughing rolling on the floor laughing
------ This thread is Archived ------
Jan 31, 2011 8:32 AM CST torture?
DeusExMachina
DeusExMachinaDeusExMachinahaaltert, Oost Vlaanderen Belgium55 Threads 1 Polls 2,705 Posts
abu ghraib
leigh2154: Buffy, torture is never OK......but.......... torture by US MILITARY has not happened.....not even close......
------ This thread is Archived ------
Post Comment - Post a comment on this Forum Thread

This Thread is Archived

This Thread is archived, so you will no longer be able to post to it. Threads get archived automatically when they are older than 3 months.

« Go back to All Threads
Message #318
We use cookies to ensure that you have the best experience possible on our website. Read Our Privacy Policy Here