David Norris (98)
skyblue43: I accept the point in law but insist there is a moral difference...
My question wasn't about the priest who rapes, but the Bishop who defends/protects/pleads for consideration for the priest...
My point is that the crimes are different, in my opinion... other may and do disagree with me on that and that's fineMy question wasn't about the priest who rapes, but the Bishop who defends/protects/pleads for consideration for the priest...
snowlynx: Just for the record I admired Norris greatly for his work on gay rights and the peace train movement in the eighties.
As do I, and I'm not having a go at you I view it in a different light having lost my cherry so young, I knew all to well what i was doing... Many teens are very mature... We know nothing of the boy he could have been 15 years and 360 days old??? That Norris abused his position is undoubted but read O'Tooles link and see those other politicans who have been promoted for simular or worse deeds in this country
sharmini: Well just as you are prepared to think a lil deeper and allow some breadth for the unsuspecting bishops, i am prepared to think that there is more to the original case than is in the media......Norris seemed to think that it was entrapment, that Nasi set his guilty plea , having been refused the right to a lawyer.....and why would the asst attorney general of isreal and the likes of Noam Chomsky have defended him?
Norris was wrong to use his position of authority to write those letters....but so is every other person who abused their authority in similar fashion......
Norris was wrong to use his position of authority to write those letters....but so is every other person who abused their authority in similar fashion......
Chomsky hates Israel, and anything at all to do with it!
skyblue43: That table is getting posted everywhere...whats the point...different countries, different laws. We know that.
the point is not only different laws but different moral standards, ethics, cultural perspectives....
sharmini: Well just as you are prepared to think a lil deeper and allow some breadth for the unsuspecting bishops, i am prepared to think that there is more to the original case than is in the media......Norris seemed to think that it was entrapment, that Nasi set his guilty plea , having been refused the right to a lawyer.....and why would the asst attorney general of isreal and the likes of Noam Chomsky have defended him?
Norris was wrong to use his position of authority to write those letters....but so is every other person who abused their authority in similar fashion......
Norris was wrong to use his position of authority to write those letters....but so is every other person who abused their authority in similar fashion......
In a radio interview today he didn't criticise the court case at all, he accepted that his friend had been totally in the wrong.
sharmini: the point is not only different laws but different moral standards, ethics, cultural perspectives....
True..I'm not judging the man. I'm judging his viability as a prseidential candidate in our country with our moral standards, ethics and cultural perspectives. Simply put he didn't fit the bill...
snowlynx: In this situation it was a 40 year old man with a 15 year old boy, that's an exploitative situation and has nothing to do with the age of consent, it's totally different from two 15 year olds. What would you think of a 40 year old man seducing a 15 year old girl, it's the same thing!
in our country, with our moral and ethical standards, yes absolutely unacceptable
skyblue43: True..I'm not judging the man. I'm judging his viability as a prseidential candidate in our country with our moral standards, ethics and cultural perspectives. Simply put he didn't fit the bill...
fair enough, lets hope we are all wiser than we were ten or thirteen years ago.....
snowlynx: In a radio interview today he didn't criticise the court case at all, he accepted that his friend had been totally in the wrong.
I was referring to 1997, when he wrote the letters
skyblue43: That table is getting posted everywhere...whats the point...different countries, different laws. We know that.
So it's 'ok' for a 70 year old man to sleep with a 12 year old girl in Vatican City or a 13 year old boy in Spain? "So what", eh?
howlingwolf: So it's 'ok' for a 70 year old man to sleep with a 12 year old girl in Vatican City or a 13 year old boy in Spain? "So what", eh?
No its not illegal, but if he tried running for President here he'd not have much chance.
skyblue43: No its not illegal, but if he tried running for President here he'd not have much chance.
Obviously it is not illegal. That's why it's called the 'age of concent'. What I asked you is if it is 'ok'. It doesn't seem to bother you much past the arbitrary legality designated by some King or Pope. Do you hold the Israeli Rabbi's who set their age of concent in such high esteem that you set your moral compass by them?
sharmini: I wont even dignify that with an answer!
No I wouldn't expect you to. So please stop quoting me the legal age limits in other countries. We all know right from wrong ourselves. As I previously said I have no issue with Mr Norris rinning for election if he could gain the support needed to run. I do however have a problem with the downplaying of his former lovers offence which went on in this thread..
It amazes me that now, after all that has happened, that many celebs are coming out and saying what a great President Norris would have made... Of course at no cost to themselves as he's no longer running.... Where where all these voices when David needed them... Hiding and cowering behind closed doors.... Norris at least had the BALLS to be heard and speak up on behalf of his friend at a time that counted and not after the fact... SHAME ON YOU Maurise Seezer & Gavin Friday to mention but a few
howlingwolf: As a 'child' of 15 I also desired to be 'molested'. Unfortunately for me Brigitte Bardot, Sophia Loren, Raquel Welch and Faye Dunaway never did. It was probably just the fear of going to jail that stopped them. It didn't stop most of our grandparents generation though. Married with kids a 15 was pretty common... the dirty things!
LITTLE LAD OF THE TRICKS by Padraig H. Pearse.
Written to a child of 11 by a fundanemtalist Catholic teacher and National hero.
Raise your comely head
Till I kiss your mouth:
If either of us is the better of that
I am the better of it.
There is a fragrance in your kissThat I have not found yet
In the kisses of women
Or in the honey of their bodies.
Lad of the grey eyes,
That flush in thy cheek
Would be white with dread of me
Could you read my secrets.
He who has my secrets
Is not fit to touch you:
Is not that a pitiful thing,
Little lad of the tricks ?
What did Norris do again?
LITTLE LAD OF THE TRICKS by Padraig H. Pearse.
Written to a child of 11 by a fundanemtalist Catholic teacher and National hero.
Raise your comely head
Till I kiss your mouth:
If either of us is the better of that
I am the better of it.
There is a fragrance in your kissThat I have not found yet
In the kisses of women
Or in the honey of their bodies.
Lad of the grey eyes,
That flush in thy cheek
Would be white with dread of me
Could you read my secrets.
He who has my secrets
Is not fit to touch you:
Is not that a pitiful thing,
Little lad of the tricks ?
What did Norris do again?
Are you calling Padraig Pearse a Child molester?
I think that while I admire David Norris and still do. He did do something wrong and it should have come out. However why did this not come out at the time of writting? Why now, years later?
Norris was wrong to do what he did and he was right to resign, however is it not also wrong that we have people who are employing people to dig up sleeze on their political rivals rather than trying to defeat them on issues and policies? And it is more alarming if in this case to a great or lesser degree a foreign government was involved.
And this is not about what we believe about Isreal's presence in the West Bank and Gaza is right or not. This is about the possiblity we have a foreign government trying to influence our democratic process.
This also raises another very big and important issue. Politicans continously trying to interfere with sentencing in this country.
Norris was wrong to do what he did and he was right to resign, however is it not also wrong that we have people who are employing people to dig up sleeze on their political rivals rather than trying to defeat them on issues and policies? And it is more alarming if in this case to a great or lesser degree a foreign government was involved.
And this is not about what we believe about Isreal's presence in the West Bank and Gaza is right or not. This is about the possiblity we have a foreign government trying to influence our democratic process.
This also raises another very big and important issue. Politicans continously trying to interfere with sentencing in this country.
weefella73: This also raises another very big and important issue. Politicans continously trying to interfere with sentencing in this country.
It came from Israel. That was the only source of it. Maybe our Minister for Justice Mr Schatzmann might care to assist with enquiries into a foreign government interfering with our democracy? And when I say assist with inquiries I mean while hanging by has ankle in a remote shed.... ha ha ha.
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Just for the record I admired Norris greatly for his work on gay rights and the peace train movement in the eighties.