Game Changer in Middle East ( Archived) (44)

Apr 28, 2012 5:21 AM CST Game Changer in Middle East
gleneagle
gleneaglegleneagleNew York City, New York USA36 Threads 3 Polls 1,147 Posts
As I watch the Arab spring revolution get bogged down in Syria I realize that whatever the outcome the dynamic in the middle East is changing.
The days when the US could send billions to autocratic regimes to keep them in compliance with the strategic interests of the US and its surrogates is fast approaching. When China surpasses the US as the worlds No 1 economy the US will no longer get its own way as much and will have to share power with a group of other top economies. The Security Council in the United Nations will be amended to affect the new reality as it is currently represented by countries who were great powers in 1945 but not all are today. The threat that Iran poses is not an existential one, but is being portrayed as such to allay the fears of those who want to eliminate the possibility of being rivaled. A war would remove Iran from the game just as in 2003 Iraq was removed as a possible rival.
I'm glad that the people in those liberated countries and their ethnic relatives who were refugees in other countries will be free to return to live and have the Government type of their choosing.
I hold these truth's to be self evident but would like your opinions.
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Apr 28, 2012 5:34 AM CST Game Changer in Middle East
Its a strange contradiction alright. I watched as Billary Clinton gave some soft words about the events in Tahrir Square in Egypt, even as she knew full well that what would replace the Mubarak Regime would be an Islamist front which would be less of an ally than what Mubarak was.

And the contradiction extends beyond Egypt. We don't see many major powers pushing for a democracy for Saudi Arabia. Why? because if the House of Saud fell and a full election was held, you would get a government elected from the very extremes of Wahhabist Islam. And they won't be too friendly to anyone.

The thing is, democracy is 'cool' for places like Libya and Syria.... as they are minor powers.. not so cool for places like Egypt and Saudi Arabia who are bigger powers and are more critical. A democratic system is these countries, which turned out a government to represent the true feelings of the people would be very hostile to Western Interests in the region.
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Apr 28, 2012 6:19 AM CST Game Changer in Middle East
maxmate1
maxmate1maxmate1Dubai, United Arab Emirates1 Threads 963 Posts
MADDOG69: Its a strange contradiction alright. I watched as Billary Clinton gave some soft words about the events in Tahrir Square in Egypt, even as she knew full well that what would replace the Mubarak Regime would be an Islamist front which would be less of an ally than what Mubarak was.

And the contradiction extends beyond Egypt. We don't see many major powers pushing for a democracy for Saudi Arabia. Why? because if the House of Saud fell and a full election was held, you would get a government elected from the very extremes of Wahhabist Islam. And they won't be too friendly to anyone.

The thing is, democracy is 'cool' for places like Libya and Syria.... as they are minor powers.. not so cool for places like Egypt and Saudi Arabia who are bigger powers and are more critical. A democratic system is these countries, which turned out a government to represent the true feelings of the people would be very hostile to Western Interests in the region.


Well....this is complicated. last 300 years there is just one kingdom that has colonized the world, grabbed land, killed people, usurped freedom, and finally retracted back to it's boundaries, though not willingly. The same Kingdom gives us a form of Democracy, where still the Heads are are Royals. Many versions of democracy are available for all of us to learn from, which democracy to adopt? remains a question still. So let's not debate the Royal (cover-up) forms of democracy here.

The fact, that new wars under a new slogan were undertaken in the last 2 decades is a new facade of the same old colonial interest. This time with a view to a shared global dominance, by the same group of war-wager businessmen and the back-seat royals. For whome Middle East and South Asia will remain a problem, as it would not easily submit to the globalist agenda.

There will be trouble sadly and continuance of wars and further investments in chaos-mkaing in different countries by the same old block, but it's not going to last very long under the same slogan. I predict a creation of a new slogan, for the continuance of globalist theme, in the near future, as the shoddy "war on terrorism", "regleous extremism targeted towards one religion", and "Regime Change" are fast losing credibility and revealing the usual suspects more and more. doh
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Apr 28, 2012 6:24 AM CST Game Changer in Middle East
maxmate1
maxmate1maxmate1Dubai, United Arab Emirates1 Threads 963 Posts
gleneagle: As I watch the Arab spring revolution get bogged down in Syria I realize that whatever the outcome the dynamic in the middle East is changing.
The days when the US could send billions to autocratic regimes to keep them in compliance with the strategic interests of the US and its surrogates is fast approaching. When China surpasses the US as the worlds No 1 economy the US will no longer get its own way as much and will have to share power with a group of other top economies. The Security Council in the United Nations will be amended to affect the new reality as it is currently represented by countries who were great powers in 1945 but not all are today. The threat that Iran poses is not an existential one, but is being portrayed as such to allay the fears of those who want to eliminate the possibility of being rivaled. A war would remove Iran from the game just as in 2003 Iraq was removed as a possible rival.
I'm glad that the people in those liberated countries and their ethnic relatives who were refugees in other countries will be free to return to live and have the Government type of their choosing.
I hold these truth's to be self evident but would like your opinions.


The chaos is the middle east is an investment on a fertile ground of "deprivation" of people in some countries where the installed leaders did deliver the platform, where people had no choice but to raise a voice and rebell subsequently. The aim for the investment, however, is not to "save" or "liberate" people. We all know how they "liberated" poeple by killing them. The real aim is the same, GREED, CONTROL and DOMINANCE.

However the real game changer would be the launch of a new "slogan" or "icon" using which the war and chaos based agenda, destablising countries would be advanced to achieve globalist objectives.
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Apr 28, 2012 7:43 AM CST Game Changer in Middle East
FirasLion
FirasLionFirasLionBrabant, North Brabant Netherlands2 Threads 130 Posts
maxmate1 wave

Your 2 comments are powerful and enough for every dumb and smart aaases,pardon me,so i do not need to comment more.I only want to say be ready for the next war in the middle east,those war mongers(Royals) are losing every things,no jobs no opportunities no plans for their peoples future,kids go to schools with dirty clothes and bodies,families have no income or lees income,visiting here and there some food banks,its latest research in the UK ,i just wonder why they spend 80 billions on wars and they do not have money for its people !?
This time we will change that corrupt system(democracy)and people around the world will be save again from those imperialist terrorists.barf

Have a nice day Max peace
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Apr 28, 2012 8:26 AM CST Game Changer in Middle East
maxmate1
maxmate1maxmate1Dubai, United Arab Emirates1 Threads 963 Posts
FirasLion: maxmate1

Your 2 comments are powerful and enough for every dumb and smart aaases,pardon me,so i do not need to comment more.I only want to say be ready for the next war in the middle east,those war mongers(Royals) are losing every things,no jobs no opportunities no plans for their peoples future,kids go to schools with dirty clothes and bodies,families have no income or lees income,visiting here and there some food banks,its latest research in the UK ,i just wonder why they spend 80 billions on wars and they do not have money for its people !?
This time we will change that corrupt system(democracy)and people around the world will be save again from those imperialist terrorists.

Have a nice day Max


I sincerely pray and hope there are no more wars. Nothing lasts forever and so the war-agenda's are not an exception to the rule.

About the part of not having money....I have a different observation. REAL wealth, unlike currency notes, plastic cards and e-money, is difficult to destroy. Usually it shifts hands. The money that people don't have is with someone who conned them off it. Through the CREDIT bubble, Housing/mortgage Bubble, Stock Market Scams, Investment Ponzies, and derivatives etc. The financial crisis actually shifts a lot of WEALTH from so many pockets to so few.

Now they knew it will happen. The global financial crisis of 2008 as a result of capitalism's evil design. They knew what exactly how it would happen. They needed money from So many to advance their war-agendas so they used it as investment, from others, for their gain. In a globalist theme, specific countries people and their wealth is not a matter of big concern. The uniformity of global spread of it, the financial submission, IS.

It's all about money, power and control to begin and end with!
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Apr 28, 2012 10:55 AM CST Game Changer in Middle East
ttom500
ttom500ttom500St. Cloud, Florida USA30 Threads 5 Polls 10,523 Posts
The only thing that will change in the middle east, is when they run out of bullets.

I site Syria for my example.........
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Apr 28, 2012 11:09 AM CST Game Changer in Middle East
maxmate1
maxmate1maxmate1Dubai, United Arab Emirates1 Threads 963 Posts
ttom500: The only thing that will change in the middle east, is when they run out of bullets.

I site Syria for my example.........


Behind Bullets, is MONEY, behind which is ill-will. So it'll be good if the ill-will eradicates from the originating source altogether! Will be good for everyone!
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Apr 28, 2012 11:17 AM CST Game Changer in Middle East
ttom500
ttom500ttom500St. Cloud, Florida USA30 Threads 5 Polls 10,523 Posts
maxmate1: Behind Bullets, is MONEY, behind which is ill-will. So it'll be good if the ill-will eradicates from the originating source altogether! Will be good for everyone!


Tell me Maxmate....how the west or the US....with all that money and all that ill will....put that Russian made sniper rifle loaded with 7.65 warsaw pact rimless rounds into the hands of the Syrian Army snipers that are killing the civilians in Homs?

You want to blame us for what many others have been doing for years in the Middle east. North Korea sells is SCUDs there. China sells it used military weapon there. Russia Sells everything from sniper weapons to
Skios there.

But the only ones to blame for the ills of the middle east....is the west, the US and Israel.
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Apr 28, 2012 11:34 AM CST Game Changer in Middle East
maxmate1
maxmate1maxmate1Dubai, United Arab Emirates1 Threads 963 Posts
ttom500: Tell me Maxmate....how the west or the US....with all that money and all that ill will....put that Russian made sniper rifle loaded with 7.65 warsaw pact rimless rounds into the hands of the Syrian Army snipers that are killing the civilians in Homs?

You want to blame us for what many others have been doing for years in the Middle east. North Korea sells is SCUDs there. China sells it used military weapon there. Russia Sells everything from sniper weapons to
Skios there.

But the only ones to blame for the ills of the middle east....is the west, the US and Israel.


Not the whole west, Thank God. USA (with pet Israel) and the Colonising Retreat Imperialists are the prime offenders only, of whom Russia's an arch enemy. They keep finding different turfs for Codl/hot/proxy wars. All 3 ransacked Afghanistan for over 130 years between them, fighting against eachother.

Now the problem is they want to play unfair and want to be the only ones doing all the hooliganism. Surely Russia's been playing against them for over a century now. What do you expect? Now they're going to drag China in it too. USA doesn't know how to pay back China being the largest lendor to it. So it rather chooses to use rogue means, as usual.

I say, let others live. Fight on your own turf and decide once and for all who's the master and who's subdued. doh
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Apr 28, 2012 2:15 PM CST Game Changer in Middle East
ttom500
ttom500ttom500St. Cloud, Florida USA30 Threads 5 Polls 10,523 Posts
Try this on for size and see if it fits.

Because the US has only been in Afghanistan with military forces for 10 years.

Russian are pretty shrewed when it come to things. One thing is that since the end of WWII, they have not had a military conflict within the country. But Russia had to gear up.....for a cold war engagement with NATO. This means they built a gigantic military industrial complex. Specifically designed to make conventional weapons....specially light infantry weapons.

I tell you the truth, Max. You cannot pull the Russian made triggers on AK_47s in Syria fast enough, they will always have more bullets for you to shoot. Russian weapon and munition factories can kick them out faster than Syrian can shot em and lose em. They make millions of rounds and 100,000 of AK-47s and other light infantry weapons. I have seen the pics of their extensive armories and weapon factories. So has Albert.

By the way, China and NKorea did the same during the cold war period.

So with that in mind. Ask yourself the answers to the following questions.

1) Why Russia so against the arrest and conviction of Blout (e.g. the Merchant of Death)?

2) Why did Russia and China veto the UN Security Resolution on Syria?

3) Why are Russian troops in Syria (which is a civil war for all extents and purposes).

My answers to these are going to different than yours. But you are smart and intelligent man. So you see the truth when you hear it or read it.

Russia wants Blout to go free for a couple of reasons. Russia has 10+ Blouts selling weapons and munitions in middle east. If one goes down, means that the other are suspectible to arrest and conviction as well.
So they are protecting their network of arms dealers and brokers in the middle east. With the large inventory of conventional weapons and vast manufacturing ability, Russia needs them to push product thru
to the regional wars. Else the pipeline gets jammed up and it cost millions to store and stockpile them

But why does Russia and China veto the UN Resolution that would remove Assad from power?

My answer is this. Because as long as Assad is power the Palestines will be enclaved up against the borders of Israel. You will always have a friction and conflict with those enclaves. Always have a local need for Russian and Chinese made weapons to them.

If the Sunni come to power in Syria and replace Assad. Then the two state solution of the Arab Leagues will come into effect. Syrian Sunni will move those border Palestine enclaves cities and towns away from the border to make the two state solution coming into effect. Just like Jordan did. They will give the Palestines, Syrian passports, just like Jordan did.

Less friction between Palestines and Israeli. Fewer Russian and Chinese weapons and munition sales to the region.

Final Question. Why are Russian troop in Syria?

My answer. To keep Assad in power and to keep this Russian vision and future weapons buyer of the middle east in play.

I kid you not, Maxmate. Russia can make bullets faster than the Syrians can shoot them.

The smartest thing, moderate Islamic men, like yourself, can do? When you learn of a merchant of death in your community. Turn him over to the international authorities. Stop buying and guarranting the purchase of weapons in the region. Specially light infantry arms.
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Apr 28, 2012 5:04 PM CST Game Changer in Middle East
epirb
epirbepirbDannevirke, Hawke's Bay New Zealand32 Threads 2 Polls 7,379 Posts
maxmate1: Well....this is complicated. last 300 years there is just one kingdom that has colonized the world, grabbed land, killed people, usurped freedom, and finally retracted back to it's boundaries, though not willingly. The same Kingdom gives us a form of Democracy, where still the Heads are are Royals. Many versions of democracy are available for all of us to learn from, which democracy to adopt? remains a question still. So let's not debate the Royal (cover-up) forms of democracy here.

The fact, that new wars under a new slogan were undertaken in the last 2 decades is a new facade of the same old colonial interest. This time with a view to a shared global dominance, by the same group of war-wager businessmen and the back-seat royals. For whome Middle East and South Asia will remain a problem, as it would not easily submit to the globalist agenda.

There will be trouble sadly and continuance of wars and further investments in chaos-mkaing in different countries by the same old block, but it's not going to last very long under the same slogan. I predict a creation of a new slogan, for the continuance of globalist theme, in the near future, as the shoddy "war on terrorism", "regleous extremism targeted towards one religion", and "Regime Change" are fast losing credibility and revealing the usual suspects more and more.
Well Max you have alot to say about democracy , last time I looked CIA don't have you and your mates doing any voting . Have you ever voted Max to choose who rules over you . doh guess not . It is absurd to think that people should take what you say as fact . If you find a better democracy than what the "west" has let us know .Know anything about freedom Max , cause not , how could you . dunno
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Apr 29, 2012 7:48 AM CST Game Changer in Middle East
In fairness Max, if the Royal you speak to is in the UK's Royal family, she, Elizabeth I, has almost Zero power to do anything. IN fact the only two reasons she is still there is

1) the royal family bring in >£200m in hard currency from tourists.

2) The Brits are a sentimental bunch. Though opinions will vary greatly.
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Apr 29, 2012 7:49 AM CST Game Changer in Middle East
Elizabeth II. Thanks spellcheck for that again.
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Apr 29, 2012 8:29 AM CST Game Changer in Middle East
maxmate1
maxmate1maxmate1Dubai, United Arab Emirates1 Threads 963 Posts
MADDOG69: In fairness Max, if the Royal you speak to is in the UK's Royal family, she, Elizabeth I, has almost Zero power to do anything. IN fact the only two reasons she is still there is

1) the royal family bring in >£200m in hard currency from tourists.

2) The Brits are a sentimental bunch. Though opinions will vary greatly.


Zero Power? I doubt that seriously. For someone who gets the foriegn intel reports before even the PM gets it, unfiltered.

200m pounds? that's it? And it's about money and not "democracy"?

Sentimental bunch are not only brits on earth. Many other Royal-run countries too.
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Apr 29, 2012 8:41 AM CST Game Changer in Middle East
maxmate1
maxmate1maxmate1Dubai, United Arab Emirates1 Threads 963 Posts
to ttom500

You just explained, in detail, my usual contention. USA, Russia, Germany, France and UK being the topmost exporters of arms in the world. UK and USA have top arms companies in the world. It's just a business competition for all of them. It's about Who sells to who? About business territories and "Customer" reach.

Russia is competition. USA, UK and others have their own "cartel" So obviously friction is going to be there. China is a contender too.

In order to run a successful business, ample demand has to be kept alive. It's a great investment to fund a conflict, fan it, blow it out of proportion, for the conflicting parties to buy weapons and keep bying amunition (consumables) regularly. The control of business territoris and regional dominance come as other prizes. Then the lenders will have a ball too. Because, a conflict crushes economy, which is like Christman for global lending agancies. Debt, is another great weapon to subdue a country.

So everything works well, as intended for globalists. Stoppage of a war, or the end of a conflict is thier worst nightmare. As it immediately stops sales, and the bottomline profits, and other benefits that come along as explained above.

That is why peace must be upheld. Wars must be condemned. Human killing must stop. Arms exporters should find some other business, other than selling killing machines.
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Apr 29, 2012 8:41 AM CST Game Changer in Middle East
gleneagle
gleneaglegleneagleNew York City, New York USA36 Threads 3 Polls 1,147 Posts
So what about Israel Maxmate1, Do you think it will continue its current strategy?
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Apr 29, 2012 8:49 AM CST Game Changer in Middle East
maxmate1
maxmate1maxmate1Dubai, United Arab Emirates1 Threads 963 Posts
maxmate1: to ttom500

You just explained, in detail, my usual contention. USA, Russia, Germany, France and UK being the topmost exporters of arms in the world. UK and USA have top arms companies in the world. It's just a business competition for all of them. It's about Who sells to who? About business territories and "Customer" reach.

Russia is competition. USA, UK and others have their own "cartel" So obviously friction is going to be there. China is a contender too.

In order to run a successful business, ample demand has to be kept alive. It's a great investment to fund a conflict, fan it, blow it out of proportion, for the conflicting parties to buy weapons and keep bying amunition (consumables) regularly. The control of business territoris and regional dominance come as other prizes. Then the lenders will have a ball too. Because, a conflict crushes economy, which is like Christman for global lending agancies. Debt, is another great weapon to subdue a country.

So everything works well, as intended for globalists. Stoppage of a war, or the end of a conflict is thier worst nightmare. As it immediately stops sales, and the bottomline profits, and other benefits that come along as explained above.

That is why peace must be upheld. Wars must be condemned. Human killing must stop. Arms exporters should find some other business, other than selling killing machines.


And religion bashing is just a gimmick invented by the arms selling cartel with the help of media cartels. Just to keep "demand" alive for their businesses. There are no Moslems, Christain terrorists. All slogans for selling more and more.

The most disgusting part of the whole thing is, that the more blood is spilt, the more richer arms exporters get. And we already know what countries thrive on it. doh The thing about hypocrisy is that it continues unabated to more and more of it!
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Apr 29, 2012 8:56 AM CST Game Changer in Middle East
maxmate1: Zero Power? I doubt that seriously. For someone who gets the foriegn intel reports before even the PM gets it, unfiltered.

200m pounds? that's it? And it's about money and not "democracy"?

Sentimental bunch are not only brits on earth. Many other Royal-run countries too.

Yes max. She has Zero power. She cannot even express a political opinion publicly. There is a reason for this and it goes back a long way. She is also Head of State of Canada, Aus, NZ and a few other countries. She has Zero power there also. Not only that the power of the Monarch was seriously curtailed since the English Civil War. That's a very long time ago, Max. However, we see Monarchs still control and rule by hereditary succession in many Gulf States.
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Apr 29, 2012 9:02 AM CST Game Changer in Middle East
maxmate1
maxmate1maxmate1Dubai, United Arab Emirates1 Threads 963 Posts
gleneagle: So what about Israel Maxmate1, Do you think it will continue its current strategy?


Israel is the most farsighted and focussed of them all. The strategy will continue towards the bigger picture it envisages. It's not about having a threat from Iran for Israel. Iran or 10 more countries alike put together can do nothing to Israel. That's how strong Israel is. So I never bought the "threat" lie.
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