The Bible, just PARTof why I believe… (545)
MikeHD: It used to all the time. I have not thought of it in awhile, but there is a book that blew me away on that subject. "The Screwtape Letters" is a fiction book by C.S. Lewis. It is a biblically based look at how the devil COULD do his worst. The main thing you keep thinking while reading the book is "The devil can't do that, its not fair.", but we know that the devil is bound by no rules of code of conduct. He has every trick at his disposal. And yes, religion is one of his best tools in influencing people.
If you have never read it, I warn you, its not an easy read, but worth your while.
If you have never read it, I warn you, its not an easy read, but worth your while.
best disguise the devil could ever have is the church!
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patrickthomas: best disguise the devil could ever have is the church!
Yes, and he uses it often. Look at the churches history. Every time the church decides to go beyond the bible and the teachings of Jesus, it opens itself up to deception. People bash the bible, and wonder why people like me base our faith upon it's teaching, but if you look at the people who start to believe they know more than the bible or have the only correct interpretation, then you enter into a dangerous place. Just as Jim Jones and David Koresh did.
The Old Testament introduces us to God, tells the story of how He had to deal with man in his infancy, shows us the utter futility of trying to reach God on our own, and bears witness to the New Testament, which tells of the fulfillment of the Old Testament, introduces us to the object of our salvation from our fallen state and gives us the ultimate and clear model upon whom we should base our lives, Jesus.
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MikeHD: Yes, and he uses it often. Look at the churches history. Every time the church decides to go beyond the bible and the teachings of Jesus, it opens itself up to deception. People bash the bible, and wonder why people like me base our faith upon it's teaching, but if you look at the people who start to believe they know more than the bible or have the only correct interpretation, then you enter into a dangerous place. Just as Jim Jones and David Koresh did.
The Old Testament introduces us to God, tells the story of how He had to deal with man in his infancy, shows us the utter futility of trying to reach God on our own, and bears witness to the New Testament, which tells of the fulfillment of the Old Testament, introduces us to the object of our salvation from our fallen state and gives us the ultimate and clear model upon whom we should base our lives, Jesus.
The Old Testament introduces us to God, tells the story of how He had to deal with man in his infancy, shows us the utter futility of trying to reach God on our own, and bears witness to the New Testament, which tells of the fulfillment of the Old Testament, introduces us to the object of our salvation from our fallen state and gives us the ultimate and clear model upon whom we should base our lives, Jesus.
And the devil has got a convert in you?
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patrickthomas: best disguise the devil could ever have is the church!
although I would argue the church is his second best...
"You think you can catch Keyser Soze? You think a guy like that comes this close to getting caught, and sticks his head out? If he comes up for anything it'll be to get rid of me. After that my guess is that you will never hear from him again. The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he did not exist. And like that... he is gone."
Verbal Kent (Kevin Spacey) - The Usual Suspects
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MikeHD: although I would argue the church is his second best...
"You think you can catch Keyser Soze? You think a guy like that comes this close to getting caught, and sticks his head out? If he comes up for anything it'll be to get rid of me. After that my guess is that you will never hear from him again. The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he did not exist. And like that... he is gone ."
Verbal Kent (Kevin Spacey) - The Usual Suspects
"You think you can catch Keyser Soze? You think a guy like that comes this close to getting caught, and sticks his head out? If he comes up for anything it'll be to get rid of me. After that my guess is that you will never hear from him again. The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he did not exist. And like that... he is gone ."
Verbal Kent (Kevin Spacey) - The Usual Suspects
No he never convinced anyone he did not exist, that is as weak as saying God does not exist, he just disguised himself as God.
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patrickthomas: No he never convinced anyone he did not exist, that is as weak as saying God does not exist, he just disguised himself as God.
Oh, you mean like in Philip Pullman's trilogy? God is really the devil?
Oh, I will follow along. Tell me what makes you think this is true.
You explain it, and we will compare it to the bible to see what we come up with.
This might be fun.
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Easy I don't believe in god or the devil, you do and you could be on the wrong side.
I am not on any side.
I am not on any side.
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patrickthomas: No he never convinced anyone he did not exist, that is as weak as saying God does not exist, he just disguised himself as God.
Hold a second. Did you just say that saying God does not exist is weak? Don't let BnaturAl hear you say that. Next thing you know you will be guilty of genocide, inquisitions, drum beating recruiting, techniques, conceptual double speak, Repetitive chanting, the love of money, guilt trips, sympathy trips, etc.
He is not in a good mood these days, so watch out.
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MikeHD: Hold a second. Did you just say that saying God does not exist is weak? Don't let BnaturAl hear you say that. Next thing you know you will be guilty of genocide, inquisitions, drum beating recruiting, techniques, conceptual double speak, Repetitive chanting, the love of money, guilt trips, sympathy trips, etc.
He is not in a good mood these days, so watch out.
He is not in a good mood these days, so watch out.
I am paraphrasing what every believer says. just because I state something does not mean I believe it.
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patrickthomas: Easy I don't believe in god or the devil, you do and you could be on the wrong side.
I am not on any side.
I am not on any side.
Well if loving God is wrong, I don't wanna be right.
I just want to be on the side of Hope, Faith, and Love.
I want to enjoy all the freedom this life has to offer. I will leave hate, genocide, inquisitions, drum beating recruiting, techniques, conceptual double speak, Repetitive chanting, the love of money, guilt trips, sympathy trips, etc.
Did BnaturAl say tolerance means being tolerant of everything except intolerance? Is that the same as saying you are ABSOLUTELY sure there are no ABSOLUTES?
It is alright. The greatest inquisition the world has ever seen is coming, but it won't involve the atheists. No sad to say the world will become more religious than it has ever been. And in that religious fervor, they will slaughter Christians by the millions. The anti-Christ will blame all the atrocities of the world on Christians, and because they do not take the mark, they will be hunted down and killed. Read the posts in these thread if you think that couldn't happen. The atheists will be there, condemning us to what they will call our "just reward". Who would imagine how right they will be.
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patrickthomas: I am paraphrasing what every believer says. just because I state something does not mean I believe it.
Oops, sorry
I guess your safe.
Well I have to get home. Take care, and I will talk to ya later.
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How do you know your god is not the devil in disguise?
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MikeHD: Oops, sorry
I guess your safe.
Well I have to get home. Take care, and I will talk to ya later.
I guess your safe.
Well I have to get home. Take care, and I will talk to ya later.
I gotta go too, talk later
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MikeHD: Well if loving God is wrong, I don't wanna be right. I just want to be on the side of Hope, Faith, and Love.
I want to enjoy all the freedom this life has to offer. I will leave hate, genocide, inquisitions, drum beating recruiting, techniques, conceptual double speak, Repetitive chanting, the love of money, guilt trips, sympathy trips, etc.Did BnaturAl say tolerance means being tolerant of everything except intolerance? Is that the same as saying you are ABSOLUTELY sure there are no ABSOLUTES?
It is alright. The greatest inquisition the world has ever seen is coming, but it won't involve the atheists. No sad to say the world will become more religious than it has ever been. And in that religious fervor, they will slaughter Christians by the millions. The anti-Christ will blame all the atrocities of the world on Christians, and because they do not take the mark, they will be hunted down and killed. Read the posts in these thread if you think that couldn't happen. The atheists will be there, condemning us to what they will call our "just reward". Who would imagine how right they will be.
I want to enjoy all the freedom this life has to offer. I will leave hate, genocide, inquisitions, drum beating recruiting, techniques, conceptual double speak, Repetitive chanting, the love of money, guilt trips, sympathy trips, etc.Did BnaturAl say tolerance means being tolerant of everything except intolerance? Is that the same as saying you are ABSOLUTELY sure there are no ABSOLUTES?
It is alright. The greatest inquisition the world has ever seen is coming, but it won't involve the atheists. No sad to say the world will become more religious than it has ever been. And in that religious fervor, they will slaughter Christians by the millions. The anti-Christ will blame all the atrocities of the world on Christians, and because they do not take the mark, they will be hunted down and killed. Read the posts in these thread if you think that couldn't happen. The atheists will be there, condemning us to what they will call our "just reward". Who would imagine how right they will be.
There may well be no "absolutes" but there sure are historical preedents - hmmm, if there are not any absolutes, doesnt that sort of give the thumbs down to your God?
Methinks you be doing a bit of judging us by thine own standards there Mike - hows about this for an alternative, me judging you by your own standards;
"Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'" (Matthew 7:22-23)
lawlessness = christian conversion tactics
a little from another post - you say you personally never caused the death of a person who assists in abortions - well I contend that affiliation to an organisation which admits to open hatred for such people (and many other free thinkers) is tantamount to doing the deed yourself - you arent just part of the soul gatherers, its what you are gathering them 'for' that is offensive.
The coming inquisition which you mention above, why exactly is it that you would be gathering people to suffer the supposed imminent slaughter - surely, logic and human kindness should have it that you try to save people from such agonies......... why arent you out there turning people away? Such calculated cruelties surely deny the spirit of Christianity
It sounds to me excatly like your coming inquisition is exactly like the earlier European attempt during which the zealotry of christian hatreds caused the death of thousands of innocent people in its mainly mysogynistic quest to subdue and control by fear.
I spoke while since with a friend who proposed what is needed in Islam is a reformation. I found that to be a reasonable theory but further to it Im thinking that whilst it was Europe that learned the lessons from the last debacle, currently, America is in the throes of the same, manufactured, mass hysteria and thereby, is very likely on the road to a Reformation of its own.
For whatever reason, it seems that the people who fled Europe to escape religious persecution were prevented from passing on the lessons learned......
The religious fervour which you display is wholly reminiscent of that which was extant in Europe a few centuries ago - I contend that somebody is pulling your chain Mike and you are falling for it hook, line and sinker......... I bet you're a secret flagellant too really arent you Mike, come on, be honest, you're amongst friends...........
What I havent figured just yet however is, what will be the new Maleus Malefactorum?
and who will start selling indulgences first but theres little doubt of one thing, the act of 'simony' never really went away - money indeed remains the root of all evil........
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patrickthomas: Easy I don't believe in god or the devil, you do and you could be on the wrong side.
I am not on any side.
I am not on any side.
If Mike is wrong there will be no harm done, but ....what if he is not?
With no "absolutes" you may want to re-think your decision.
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autumbreeze: If Mike is wrong there will be no harm done, but ....what if he is not?
With no "absolutes" you may want to re-think your decision.
With no "absolutes" you may want to re-think your decision.
There has been lots of harm done in the name of "Religious belief"and does beg the question that has been asked on another thread, would the world be a better place if everybody was Atheist? Thousands of years of religion have proved otherwise.
What irks me is the total acceptance people like Mike have of his beliefs and the total lack of anything resembling logic within those beliefs.
Lets say I got it wrong, and God does exist, therefore the Devil does too, or call it Evil. then a quick look at the history of the World and one example Pope BonifaceII put 20,000 Men, Women, and Children to the sword in one afternoon, that's right, just one afternoon! he had children with his mother, his wife and his daughter!
Anyone who buys into organized religion is buying into one of the most blood soaked, materialistic, evil organizations the world has ever seen.
Some people are attracted to such organizations, and always with fervour. The promise of an afterlife? eternal happiness, or a desire to satisfy a deeper darker need?
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patrickthomas: There has been lots of harm done in the name of "Religious belief"and does beg the question that has been asked on another thread, would the world be a better place if everybody was Atheist? Thousands of years of religion have proved otherwise.
What irks me is the total acceptance people like Mike have of his beliefs and the total lack of anything resembling logic within those beliefs.
Lets say I got it wrong, and God does exist, therefore the Devil does too, or call it Evil. then a quick look at the history of the World and one example Pope BonifaceII put 20,000 Men, Women, and Children to the sword in one afternoon, that's right, just one afternoon! he had children with his mother, his wife and his daughter!
Anyone who buys into organized religion is buying into one of the most blood soaked, materialistic, evil organizations the world has ever seen.
Some people are attracted to such organizations, and always with fervour. The promise of an afterlife? eternal happiness, or a desire to satisfy a deeper darker need?
What irks me is the total acceptance people like Mike have of his beliefs and the total lack of anything resembling logic within those beliefs.
Lets say I got it wrong, and God does exist, therefore the Devil does too, or call it Evil. then a quick look at the history of the World and one example Pope BonifaceII put 20,000 Men, Women, and Children to the sword in one afternoon, that's right, just one afternoon! he had children with his mother, his wife and his daughter!
Anyone who buys into organized religion is buying into one of the most blood soaked, materialistic, evil organizations the world has ever seen.
Some people are attracted to such organizations, and always with fervour. The promise of an afterlife? eternal happiness, or a desire to satisfy a deeper darker need?
It boils down to freedom of beliefs .... for now.
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autumbreeze: It boils down to freedom of beliefs .... for now.
Ominous!
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It used to all the time. I have not thought of it in awhile, but there is a book that blew me away on that subject. "The Screwtape Letters" is a fiction book by C.S. Lewis. It is a biblically based look at how the devil COULD do his worst. The main thing you keep thinking while reading the book is "The devil can't do that, its not fair.", but we know that the devil is bound by no rules of code of conduct. He has every trick at his disposal. And yes, religion is one of his best tools in influencing people.
If you have never read it, I warn you, its not an easy read, but worth your while.