Law and Grace, Old Covenant and New Covenant (133)
TroyBoy: ....Buzzy, well said.....without mentioning names, which is obviously verboten, some chivalrous men from the south seem to be predisposed to rally behind the hypocrisy espoused & religious ideology imposed upon others from the midwest, whose cowardess is belied only by the fact that they not onloy have the facts wrong, but when they are called upon it, attempt to reframe the substantive issue(s)(of their ignorance) and project them back upon the commenter, alleging "personal attacks"......please note as well that NONE of any of these responses buttress their original post ---- but whine about being picked on ---- like grade school.....
.....I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with quoting a biblical or other scriptural pinpoint citation.....its their decision to interpret that post, supported not by scholarly works, but rather by "self authored yahoo blogs', which ostensibly gives some legitimacy to their position.....& when they are called on it, they get pissed.....
....as for me, Martin Luther clearly & unequivocally demonstrated that an individual may have a personal relationship with their higher power, whomever that may be......the line is crossed where others, who are so self absorbed with seeing their own name in print, supported by their own interpretation given by some divine providence, choose to impose that on others.....a clear violation of a constitutional right to Free Exercise & the Establishment Clause, clearly embodied, expressly enumerated, & established by the 1st Amendment.....
....keep in mind a few things.....NOT once has any of these posters debated the substantive details which belie their positions.....why? Because they simply cannot....its much easier to hide behind a cloak of cowardness, framed in a "christian" context, and to labels those who oppose their posts as "dumb-asses", or heretics, or any other label of convienience, which as you so eloquently point out, doesn't seem too Christian.....
....shall we meditate together?
.....I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with quoting a biblical or other scriptural pinpoint citation.....its their decision to interpret that post, supported not by scholarly works, but rather by "self authored yahoo blogs', which ostensibly gives some legitimacy to their position.....& when they are called on it, they get pissed.....
....as for me, Martin Luther clearly & unequivocally demonstrated that an individual may have a personal relationship with their higher power, whomever that may be......the line is crossed where others, who are so self absorbed with seeing their own name in print, supported by their own interpretation given by some divine providence, choose to impose that on others.....a clear violation of a constitutional right to Free Exercise & the Establishment Clause, clearly embodied, expressly enumerated, & established by the 1st Amendment.....
....keep in mind a few things.....NOT once has any of these posters debated the substantive details which belie their positions.....why? Because they simply cannot....its much easier to hide behind a cloak of cowardness, framed in a "christian" context, and to labels those who oppose their posts as "dumb-asses", or heretics, or any other label of convienience, which as you so eloquently point out, doesn't seem too Christian.....
....shall we meditate together?
Like Jesus said; "They are false to their power." Now I will follow my Christ, I will turn away.
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.....a refreshing voice of reason......Cheers
trish123: Oh heck - they have a whole armoury of stuff that they try before they start getting nasty. go for some of their dinners - not that I ever did - play em at their own game be nice to em - they hate it really cos they cant ever get beyond the second stage of human cognition - they still think that everyone thinks the same way as they do they mistakenly dont undersatand the 'uncontrolled mind'
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TroyBoy: My oh my, the edification which must occur.....go to your nearest library & pick up Dershowitz's "The Genesis Of Justice".....(Ten Stories of Biblical Injustice that led to the Ten Commandments & Modern Law).....you may learn something.....& then call me.
God wrote the book I read. I think he out sells Dershowitz. Beside that God was there at the time.
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......well then start practicing it ---- dont they have mirrors down south? Or maybe its the educational system......after all reading is fundamental......& by the way, how do you know God was there? Did you witness it, read it, or someone tell it to you? Bottom line, religion a matter of faith & either way, you're boxed in by your own myopic thinking.....which was exactly my point ---- or need I explain that to you as well......people believe what they want to, & don't need an interpreter ---- get it?
RillyNiceGuy: God wrote the book I read. I think he out sells Dershowitz. Beside that God was there at the time.
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RillyNiceGuy: God wrote the book I read. I think he out sells Dershowitz. Beside that God was there at the time.
....as one person wrote to me privately a short time ago......"ever notice less & less CS'ers are reading & responding to her fringe views"? Point well taken.....even Ray Charles could see that......
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Christians aren't perfect~just forgiven!!!
I can't wait for the Rapture. I think it will happen soon. All the signs in Revelations are here!!! Yay God! Thankyou Jesus!!!
I can't wait for the Rapture. I think it will happen soon. All the signs in Revelations are here!!! Yay God! Thankyou Jesus!!!
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For some warped reason people think Christians are to be perfect and if one is not then throw them and the whole idea out into the trash. Thats crazy and the idea of foolish thinking. Each Christian has his or hers own stage of growth and learn as they go. Many fall by the way because of many reasons...but those who continue must grow in understanding. Even those of God and followers with Christ made errors.....how much better than they that learned fron Christ directly are we expected to be by those who are not of understanding. Can the lawless judge the lawful attemps of others that they don't understand or do.
It is easy to torment the meek and be safe. But can you stand the trials of the true faith, to hold back the bad within you and live the better ways of life. Only those who choose not to do murder will never murder. Those who will....will and no laws of God or man will stop them. The same is true with many many things...why hate those who are trying to be the better...unless such things are beyond you and you hate them because they are not of you, but of a better way taught by God.
Can the murderer judge a non-murderer, can the lair judge the truthful,......who are you to judge anything except evil.
It is easy to torment the meek and be safe. But can you stand the trials of the true faith, to hold back the bad within you and live the better ways of life. Only those who choose not to do murder will never murder. Those who will....will and no laws of God or man will stop them. The same is true with many many things...why hate those who are trying to be the better...unless such things are beyond you and you hate them because they are not of you, but of a better way taught by God.
Can the murderer judge a non-murderer, can the lair judge the truthful,......who are you to judge anything except evil.
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buzzy: Didn't you tell me once this is not a forum for debating?
The thread about Hell was not for the purpose of debate. It was for helping those by giving information. Now you make the reply above....which is incorrect in understanding. I did not say that THIS is not a forum for debating. Maybe this kind of thinking and understanding is the cause of much confusion for you. I mean this kindly and not being mean. Perhaps reading and understanding should be slower to be correct in the future. This type of thing also happens when a person does not really want to hear others to begin with. This could be a problem for you in life if not corrected. Other things said in that same post were mistakes also. Slow down and let it soak in correctly before making statements that confuse the issue and yourself. Again! I say this not being mean.
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Rhonda913: Christians aren't perfect~just forgiven!!!
I can't wait for the Rapture. I think it will happen soon. All the signs in Revelations are here!!! Yay God! Thankyou Jesus!!!
I can't wait for the Rapture. I think it will happen soon. All the signs in Revelations are here!!! Yay God! Thankyou Jesus!!!
You are not kidding, it is very close. What do you think will happen after the rapture? Do you think we will stay in heaven, come back to earth or to another planet God has made? The Bible says "the meek shal inherit tha earth." I don't know if it is this planet. Mankind seems to have ruined it. What do you think?
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trish123: Oh heck - they have a whole armoury of stuff that they try before they start getting nasty. go for some of their dinners - not that I ever did - play em at their own game be nice to em - they hate it really cos they cant ever get beyond the second stage of human cognition - they still think that everyone thinks the same way as they do they mistakenly dont undersatand the 'uncontrolled mind'
The only way they can justify their life is by making themselves look smarter, and have a better life than you. "Look at me. I'm a Christian, I'm better than you, after all God loves me more." I find most Christians lack the humility the Christ practiced. Their self righteous, better than thou attitude will lead to their down fall. I love it when Christians try to tell you how to live your life, then condemn you when you live another way. "God will burn you in hell for that." A God that will throw you in eternal hellfire for few years of sin is not a God I will worship.
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buzzy: A God that will throw you in eternal hellfire for few years of sin is not a God I will worship.
Buzzy! This I agree with! But God is not that way. There is much false teaching that makes confusion in the truth. The truth is that God does not torture a person in Hell fire for all time.
A man who chooses the only way of peace will be with God on this Earth. Those who never has understanding will be given a choice after understanding the truth. Those knowing and rejecting will be cast into the lake of fire and consumed...burned up.....gone....as if they never were. Only Satan and his Angels who have immoratality will live in hell. The torment they have will not be burning either. If you ever want the truth it is there for those who seek it. If I can help email and I will show you were you can find what is as it should be and the truth.
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RillyNiceGuy: God wrote the book I read. I think he out sells Dershowitz. Beside that God was there at the time.
God wrote the book you read? I thought it was men on earth? Do you know how many scrolls from the time of Christ are still in existence? Saint Peter wrote a book of the Bible that was rejected and the Revalation of John was accepted instead. The Book of Peter was not as mystical or as good a read as Revalation. Mary Magdalean wrote a book about a teaching Christ gave her, but was rejected because she was a woman. There are many writings about Christ that were rejected because those books did not hold to the ideas of what the early Christians wanted other people to believe about them and the Christ. That is why I do not trust organized religions. They will bend things to get people into their church. Getting people into their church means MONEY in their coffers.
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buzzy: Do you know how many scrolls from the time of Christ are still in existence? Saint Peter wrote a book of the Bible that was rejected and the Revalation of John was accepted instead. The Book of Peter was not as mystical or as good a read as Revalation. Mary Magdalean wrote a book about a teaching Christ gave her, but was rejected because she was a woman. There are many writings about Christ that were rejected because those books did not hold to the ideas of what the early Christians wanted other people to believe about them and the Christ.
I would like to agree with you on your comment above. There are many books in existance that were not placed into the Bible. The Bible actually states in itself, that there were so many writings that were left out of the compilation, as they would fill an entire library, or words to that effect, so please do not quote me.
I love searching out the old writings which were left out, even the gnostic writings and mystic writings which came after. All that we read will help us grow in perception to what we choose to believe.
I do not care for the institutionalized church or religion. Jesus himself was against religion. I believe in personal relationship with the Holy Spirit and encourage others to grow in this relationship. Not to do as I say or as any other person says, but to listen to the still small voice within them.
Good comment Buzzy!
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Most Christians don't believe they are better than non-believers. God loves man equally. He sent His Son Jesus to die for all our sins so we ALL could be forgiven & have everlasting life. Christians love their brothers and sisters enough to share this good news. It is only when we have heard this wonderful, awesome Word of God and refuse to believe that Christ died for our sins that we don't gain eternal life with God in heaven. So sad, they will be left behind in the Rapture. Please read Revelations with an open mind and know Jesus and that He did what He did so we could be saved from evil and hell.
Look around us and see that everything that the Bible says in Revelation is coming true. His coming is going to be within the next several years or a month from now, a week or maybe a day! Come to Jesus and live for eternity in Heaven, please!
Look around us and see that everything that the Bible says in Revelation is coming true. His coming is going to be within the next several years or a month from now, a week or maybe a day! Come to Jesus and live for eternity in Heaven, please!
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HealthyLiving: The LORD gave me the two tablets of stone, the tablets of the covenant . . . For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ . . . This cup is the new covenant in My blood. (Deu_9:11; Joh_1:17; and Luk_22:20)
Deu 9:11 At the end of the 40 days and 40 nights, the LORD gave me the two stone tablets with his promise on them.
Joh 1:17 The Teachings were given through Moses, but kindness and truth came into existence through Jesus Christ.
Luk 22:20 When supper was over, he did the same with the cup. He said, "This cup that is poured out for you is the new promise made with my blood."
In your meditation upon law and grace, consider the principal characteristics of the Old Covenant and the New Covenant. When the Lord wrote the message of His law upon stone tablets for Moses, He was prescribing the terms of the Old Covenant. "The LORD gave me the two tablets of stone, the tablets of the covenant." When Jesus came into the world to die on the cross, the Lord was establishing a New Covenant. "This cup is the new covenant in My blood."
These two covenants of law and grace present one of the major contrasting themes in the word of God. "For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ..." Understanding the differences between these two covenants is of utmost importance for living the Christian life as God intends.
God's law tells us that He desires holiness to characterize the way we live. Only God's grace can provide such righteousness in our lives. God's law tells us that He wants Christlike love to permeate our attitudes and relationships. Only God's grace can develop such love in us. God's law tells us that He desires the perfections of the Father to be growing in us. Only God's grace is sufficient to carry out such a process of transformation.
The law of God is the what; the grace of God is the how. The law of God reveals sin; the grace of God forgives sin. The law of God indicates man's problem; the grace of God provides God's remedy. The law of God demands performance by man; the grace of God offers provision from God.
The law of God is the standard; the grace of God is the means. The law of God is the spiritual measuring rod that evaluates lives; the grace of God is the nurturing resource that produces spiritual life. The law of God tells us of the character of God; the grace of God reproduces that character in us. The law of God is the effect God wants to see; the grace of God is the cause that brings forth that effect. Lord God of Truth, help me to rightly divide Your truth. Enlighten my spiritual understanding that I might increasingly grasp the differences between law and grace. Show me the full implications of the old covenant and the new covenant.Your word impresses me with the enormous significance of these issues. Thank You for Your patience concerning my negligence or confusion on these matters. O Lord, I earnestly desire to live a righteous and holy life. Teach me the path of humble dependence upon Your glorious grace, through Jesus, my Lord and my life, Amen.
Tks for explaining this Ive seen so many times that people donot understand the difference between the law and Grace.Deu 9:11 At the end of the 40 days and 40 nights, the LORD gave me the two stone tablets with his promise on them.
Joh 1:17 The Teachings were given through Moses, but kindness and truth came into existence through Jesus Christ.
Luk 22:20 When supper was over, he did the same with the cup. He said, "This cup that is poured out for you is the new promise made with my blood."
In your meditation upon law and grace, consider the principal characteristics of the Old Covenant and the New Covenant. When the Lord wrote the message of His law upon stone tablets for Moses, He was prescribing the terms of the Old Covenant. "The LORD gave me the two tablets of stone, the tablets of the covenant." When Jesus came into the world to die on the cross, the Lord was establishing a New Covenant. "This cup is the new covenant in My blood."
These two covenants of law and grace present one of the major contrasting themes in the word of God. "For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ..." Understanding the differences between these two covenants is of utmost importance for living the Christian life as God intends.
God's law tells us that He desires holiness to characterize the way we live. Only God's grace can provide such righteousness in our lives. God's law tells us that He wants Christlike love to permeate our attitudes and relationships. Only God's grace can develop such love in us. God's law tells us that He desires the perfections of the Father to be growing in us. Only God's grace is sufficient to carry out such a process of transformation.
The law of God is the what; the grace of God is the how. The law of God reveals sin; the grace of God forgives sin. The law of God indicates man's problem; the grace of God provides God's remedy. The law of God demands performance by man; the grace of God offers provision from God.
The law of God is the standard; the grace of God is the means. The law of God is the spiritual measuring rod that evaluates lives; the grace of God is the nurturing resource that produces spiritual life. The law of God tells us of the character of God; the grace of God reproduces that character in us. The law of God is the effect God wants to see; the grace of God is the cause that brings forth that effect. Lord God of Truth, help me to rightly divide Your truth. Enlighten my spiritual understanding that I might increasingly grasp the differences between law and grace. Show me the full implications of the old covenant and the new covenant.Your word impresses me with the enormous significance of these issues. Thank You for Your patience concerning my negligence or confusion on these matters. O Lord, I earnestly desire to live a righteous and holy life. Teach me the path of humble dependence upon Your glorious grace, through Jesus, my Lord and my life, Amen.
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Rhonda913: Most Christians don't believe they are better than non-believers. God loves man equally. He sent His Son Jesus to die for all our sins so we ALL could be forgiven & have everlasting life. Christians love their brothers and sisters enough to share this good news. It is only when we have heard this wonderful, awesome Word of God and refuse to believe that Christ died for our sins that we don't gain eternal life with God in heaven. So sad, they will be left behind in the Rapture. Please read Revelations with an open mind and know Jesus and that He did what He did so we could be saved from evil and hell.
Look around us and see that everything that the Bible says in Revelation is coming true. His coming is going to be within the next several years or a month from now, a week or maybe a day! Come to Jesus and live for eternity in Heaven, please!
ur so right on.Look around us and see that everything that the Bible says in Revelation is coming true. His coming is going to be within the next several years or a month from now, a week or maybe a day! Come to Jesus and live for eternity in Heaven, please!
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RillyNiceGuy: Buzzy! This I agree with! But God is not that way. There is much false teaching that makes confusion in the truth. The truth is that God does not torture a person in Hell fire for all time.
A man who chooses the only way of peace will be with God on this Earth. Those who never has understanding will be given a choice after understanding the truth. Those knowing and rejecting will be cast into the lake of fire and consumed...burned up.....gone....as if they never were. Only Satan and his Angels who have immoratality will live in hell. The torment they have will not be burning either. If you ever want the truth it is there for those who seek it. If I can help email and I will show you were you can find what is as it should be and the truth.
Then what do u do with the scripture that says sinners will be cast into a lake of fire where the fire is not quenched and the worm dieth not and u will burn forever and ever?????But ur right about God not sending us there we go by our own choice.And the Bible says hell was made for the devil and his angels but that hell is having to enlarge herself, because man is choosing to go there.A man who chooses the only way of peace will be with God on this Earth. Those who never has understanding will be given a choice after understanding the truth. Those knowing and rejecting will be cast into the lake of fire and consumed...burned up.....gone....as if they never were. Only Satan and his Angels who have immoratality will live in hell. The torment they have will not be burning either. If you ever want the truth it is there for those who seek it. If I can help email and I will show you were you can find what is as it should be and the truth.
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literal
metaphor
perception
ancient
mistaken
power
dreams
illusion
ego
fear
Whew! Is it hot in here?
metaphor
perception
ancient
mistaken
power
dreams
illusion
ego
fear
Whew! Is it hot in here?
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buzzy: You are not kidding, it is very close. What do you think will happen after the rapture? Do you think we will stay in heaven, come back to earth or to another planet God has made? The Bible says "the meek shal inherit tha earth." I don't know if it is this planet. Mankind seems to have ruined it. What do you think?
I know this wasnt a question to me ,but Ill explain the best I can.From what I understand heaven will be here on a made over earth.But when the rapture happens,we r taken up.and then at the very end it says satan will be loosed to go out to deceive the nations, after hes been bound a 1000 yrs.And satan and his army will come up against the camp of the saints, on the breadth of the earth to destroy us.Then Jesus himself comes with the saints and defeats satan and his army.Its in Revelations.Its very hard to understand.But it sounds like the breadth of the earth would be earth.It also says the new Jeruslem will come down from heaven and sit on the old foundation,which is now called the dome of the rock in Israel.So we know that dome will be destroyed,at some point.Another thing, ur right about is, Christians talking the talk and not walking the walk.I do not believe in cursing,smoking or drinking.I am in no way perfect .The Bible says we r not perfect but we r to strive for perfection.I hoped I helped in some way.------ This thread is Archived ------
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Oh heck - they have a whole armoury of stuff that they try before they start getting nasty. go for some of their dinners - not that I ever did - play em at their own game