Law and Grace, Old Covenant and New Covenant ( Archived) (133)

Feb 21, 2009 6:43 PM CST Law and Grace, Old Covenant and New Covenant
krimsa
krimsakrimsaMiddleton, New Hampshire USA6 Threads 2 Polls 1,345 Posts
This is interesting.

And Galilee, the fourth and northernmost area of Palestine? Well, that has been a matter of debate. To be sure, the population there was Jewish, for Jesus is well-known for his mission among the Galilean Jews. But where did those Jews come from?

Many people may wonder why this is a question. Have not Jews been in Galilee since the Twelve Tribes settled there in the thirteenth century BC? Actually, no.

Certainly Galilee was settled by the tribes of Zebulon, Naphtali, Issachar and Asher. Later it belonged to David’s kingdom and then to the northern nation of Israel. But the Assyrian Emperor Tiglath-Pileser III conquered Israel in 733 BCE and the surviving rump state was obliterated by his successor Shalmaneser V in 722. All the population was relocated to other areas of the empire.

At this moment, Galilee drops out of history for the next 600 years. To be sure, 2 Kings 17 tells of the resettlement of Samaria, but Galilee is not mentioned.

Archaeological research now reveals this was not just an oversight of the Biblical writers. Surface surveys indicate no human occupation of the Galilee during the sixth and seventh centuries BCE. A few scattered, small settlements began to appear in following centuries, mostly military outposts and a few small farming communities which sent their harvests to the coastal cities. The same conclusions can be drawn from the excavations of major sites as well. So Galilee remains essentially empty for more than half a millennium following the Assyrian invasions.

The archaeological evidence reveals a sudden change about the start of the first century BC. Over a period of a couple decades, dozens of new villages appear. This indicates that a new, rather large, population comes into Galilee. The trend continues for the next half century or so, with many new settlements appearing and then growing larger.

Who were these new inhabitants? These new archaeological findings indicate that they were transplanted Judeans. The ancient historian Josephus relates how Alexander Jannaeus, the King of Israel from 102 to 76 BC, extended the northern boundary of his Judean-centered country into Galilee during his reign using military means.

Unfortunately, Josephus says nothing about Jannaeus’ management of the country once it came under his control. For a long time, scholars have held that he simply converted the people he found there, the Itureans, to Judaism. Since there was no large population in Galilee at the time, we now know this incorrect.

The archaeology instead reveals that the new inhabitants were Judeans. First, the currency of the region is now that of the Judean Janneaus and his successors; it is not that of the coastal cities or of Damascus further north in Syria. Second, excavated village areas reveal the same interest in religious purity common among Judeans, with ritual baths cut out of the bedrock and houses that contained stone bowls, cups and plates that were impervious to impurity. Third, the Galileans followed a Judean diet in that they did not eat pork; no pig bones are found in the garbage dumps.

So the archaeological research of recent decades now shows that the Galilean population of Jesus’ time were descendants of Judean immigrants of a century or so earlier.
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Feb 21, 2009 7:09 PM CST Law and Grace, Old Covenant and New Covenant
RayfromUSA
RayfromUSARayfromUSAvienne, Rhone-Alpes France86 Threads 29 Polls 6,611 Posts
krimsa: It’s just the Jewish name for Him alright.


No, that's not even correct.

The word used by Jews is "Hashem" which means "The Lord".

the tetragramation ("yhwh" not "Yahweh") has no vowels and was never spoken at all and has no proper pronunciation.

"God" is pronounced like it is spelled.
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Feb 21, 2009 7:13 PM CST Law and Grace, Old Covenant and New Covenant
krimsa
krimsakrimsaMiddleton, New Hampshire USA6 Threads 2 Polls 1,345 Posts
Modern observant Jews no longer voice the name aloud. It is believed to be too sacred to be uttered and is often referred to as the 'Ineffable', 'Unutterable' or 'Distinctive Name'. Various proposals still exist for the vocalization of in which the stem of the name Yahweh (Yah) remains widely accepted but discrepancies exist on agreement of the ending ('weh'). Early Christian literature written in Greek used spellings that can be transcribed by 'Yahweh'. This pronunciation and spelling, as with many religious and scholarly issues, remains the subject of ongoing debate.
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Feb 21, 2009 8:12 PM CST Law and Grace, Old Covenant and New Covenant
RayfromUSA
RayfromUSARayfromUSAvienne, Rhone-Alpes France86 Threads 29 Polls 6,611 Posts
krimsa:
This is interesting.
Galilee, the fourth and northernmost area of Palestine?


Yes, "Palestina". A Roman province that included the entire area.

All of the people in the whole area were "Palestinians". (including the Jews).

But Palestina was broken down into several kingdoms.
Judea, Samaria, Galilee,Iudemea, .....
And only the people of Judea were Jews.

Galilee was definitely not Jewish.
Although there were some Jews who lived there.
Nazareth was nearer to Judea so there were more Jews there.
But in the area around the Sea of Galilee, where the disciples came from, there were few ethnic Jews.
Religiously the people worshipped the same God as the Jews.
The God of Abraham.
The religion of "Judaism" didn't even exist yet.
It developed later out of the Pharisee sect.
The people of Galilee were not ethicnally Jewish.
They were a mix of a lot of different culture.
The area was predominantly Greek for several centuries.
There were Greek cities around the sea of Galilee.
The Jews of Christ's time didn't consider Samaritans or Galileeans to be "Jewish". Look at the story of the good Samaritan for proof of that.


krimsa:
Have not Jews been in Galilee since the Twelve Tribes settled there in the thirteenth century BC?


Of course not.
The very concept of "Jewish" only developed in Judea after the Babylonian captivity. Prior to that, a person belonged to a tribe, and the collective name for the 13 tribes was Israel.

Galilee was never a part of "Judea".
Nor was it a part of the "kingdom of Judah".
About half of it was a part of the kingdom of Israel.
But the people of upper Galilee were not Israelite and were not carried away captive by the Assyrians.
Nor were they carried away captive by the Babylonians.
They didn't returned with Zerubbabel.
They never spoke Hebrew.
In short they were never ever "Jewish" at all.
They were not even "Israelite" or "Hebrew" for that matter.

They were ethnically mixed.
Politically they were Palestinian.

Your claim that Galilee was uninhabited for centuries is ludicrous.
The Greeks had big cities there during the very period you claim it was empty.

As the Bible clearly states, Galilee was not considered to be part of Jewry in Christ's time.

I'm very curious.
Where did you get all that disinformation??
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Feb 22, 2009 6:01 AM CST Law and Grace, Old Covenant and New Covenant
krimsa
krimsakrimsaMiddleton, New Hampshire USA6 Threads 2 Polls 1,345 Posts
In response to: Galilee was definitely not Jewish.


Well that is in direct conflict with what I just posted which was from a reputable source. I will take their word over yours. Galileans at the time that Christ was alive were Jews and descended of Judeans. That’s not really important anyway unless you can prove that Yahweh of the OT was not the same Yahweh of the NT.
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Feb 22, 2009 6:04 AM CST Law and Grace, Old Covenant and New Covenant
krimsa
krimsakrimsaMiddleton, New Hampshire USA6 Threads 2 Polls 1,345 Posts
In response to: There's not a shred of truth to that myth.


I’m sorry but there is no reason (based on your fallacious posting history on this site) that I should believe anything you say over this credible website.
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Feb 25, 2009 12:20 AM CST Law and Grace, Old Covenant and New Covenant
Tom512
Tom512Tom512Lebanon, Pennsylvania USA1 Threads 5 Posts
buzzy: God wrote the book you read? I thought it was men on earth? Do you know how many scrolls from the time of Christ are still in existence? Saint Peter wrote a book of the Bible that was rejected and the Revalation of John was accepted instead. The Book of Peter was not as mystical or as good a read as Revalation. Mary Magdalean wrote a book about a teaching Christ gave her, but was rejected because she was a woman. There are many writings about Christ that were rejected because those books did not hold to the ideas of what the early Christians wanted other people to believe about them and the Christ. That is why I do not trust organized religions. They will bend things to get people into their church. Getting people into their church means MONEY in their coffers.
Early


Buzzy - the early christians did indeed circulate the "books" you speak of, and a lot more. It wasn't the early Christians who rejected them, it was the Canon Divines. I had an opportunity to read the rules they supposedly used to decide what goes in the Canon. By there own rules the book of Hebrews shouldn't have been included in the Canon since they had no idea who wrote it. Then there's Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Nobody knows for sure who wrote them, they have simply been attributed to those guys. Even so, the acuracy of the Bible is unmatched by any other book of antiquity.
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Feb 25, 2009 1:00 AM CST Law and Grace, Old Covenant and New Covenant
RillyNiceGuy
RillyNiceGuyRillyNiceGuySoutheast, Arkansas USA839 Threads 13,003 Posts
RayfromUSA: That's right. Jesus cured everybody regardless of whatever sin they may have done, or had done to them.

The only people he couldn't help were those who thought they didn't need His help.


Remember he said."You faith hath made thee whole" or the like. if they had faith it was done to them. (disciples) In some place the no work could be done because of lack of faith.
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Feb 25, 2009 1:04 AM CST Law and Grace, Old Covenant and New Covenant
RillyNiceGuy
RillyNiceGuyRillyNiceGuySoutheast, Arkansas USA839 Threads 13,003 Posts
RayfromUSA: No, that's not even correct.

The word used by Jews is "Hashem" which means "The Lord".

the tetragramation ("yhwh" not "Yahweh") has no vowels and was never spoken at all and has no proper pronunciation.

"God" is pronounced like it is spelled.


Compare Jesus' real Hebrew name to YHWH and you will have a more accurate name for YHWH.
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Feb 25, 2009 8:21 AM CST Law and Grace, Old Covenant and New Covenant
krimsa
krimsakrimsaMiddleton, New Hampshire USA6 Threads 2 Polls 1,345 Posts
RayfromUSA: That's right. Jesus cured everybody regardless of whatever sin they may have done, or had done to them.

The only people he couldn't help were those who thought they didn't need His help.


And you did not address his statement at all of course. Way to skirt the issue, senator. He stated that Jesus "admired" the relationship. He did not condemn it.
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Feb 25, 2009 8:25 AM CST Law and Grace, Old Covenant and New Covenant
krimsa
krimsakrimsaMiddleton, New Hampshire USA6 Threads 2 Polls 1,345 Posts
ReallyNiceGuy said:


In response to: Compare Jesus' real Hebrew name to YHWH and you will have a more accurate name for YHWH.


Right. Ray was unaware of this for whatever reason. Yeshua, in Hebrew was a common name among Jews of the Second Temple Period.
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Feb 27, 2009 4:42 PM CST Law and Grace, Old Covenant and New Covenant
princemuncher
princemuncherprincemunchernorthfield, Ohio USA12 Threads 378 Posts
RayfromUSA: That's right. Jesus cured everybody regardless of whatever sin they may have done, or had done to them.

The only people he couldn't help were those who thought they didn't need His help.


Jesus may have healed this woman's daughter, but he certainly didn't like her......

Matthew 15:22-26

A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, "Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is suffering terribly from demon-possession." Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, "Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us." He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel." The woman came and knelt before him. "Lord, help me!" she said. He replied, "It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs."

Jesus called her a dog because she was greek.

Mark 11:1-3

As they approached Jerusalem and came to Bethphage and Bethany at the Mount of Olives, Jesus sent two of his disciples, saying to them, "Go to the village ahead of you, and just as you enter it, you will find a colt tied there, which no one has ever ridden. Untie it and bring it here. If anyone asks you, 'Why are you doing this?' tell him, 'The Lord needs it and will send it back here shortly.' "

"Let me borrow this and I'll return it in a minute." I hve wuite a few things I've borrowed and never returned. I've "loaned" things to people and never got them back.

Anyway, the disciples take the colt, but nowhere in scripture does it say they ever return it.

"THOU SHALT NOT STEAL!"rolling on the floor laughing
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Feb 27, 2009 7:02 PM CST Law and Grace, Old Covenant and New Covenant
krimsa
krimsakrimsaMiddleton, New Hampshire USA6 Threads 2 Polls 1,345 Posts
It took the Israelites 40 years to travel from Egypt to Canaan, yet such a journey, even at that time, would have taken no more than ten days. rolling on the floor laughing
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