More tough love budget measures revealed (57)
revealer24Arundel, Queensland Australia62 Threads 985 PostsHmmm. Two days a week for the whole year. Such a good deal. It works out for $12.50/hour. Well below the youth wage. Very sensible option to do all those meaningless "jobs". Most of the time people who "work" for the dole have nothing to do, but answering phones here and there, the rest is coffee and chit-chat. I just don't see where the "work experience" part is.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/05/09/3211890.htm
revealer24: Hmmm. Two days a week for the whole year. Such a good deal. It works out for $12.50/hour. Well below the youth wage. Very sensible option to do all those meaningless "jobs". Most of the time people who "work" for the dole have nothing to do, but answering phones here and there, the rest is coffee and chit-chat. I just don't see where the "work experience" part is.
There will always be a small percentage of people that are unemployable. These people are usually mentally or emotionally traumatised to the point where they cannot be usefully and reliably employed. The physically disabled are usually catered for (Disability pension is higher than "Jobseeker" Allowance). However if you have a physical disability that is not "visible", such as a back injury, you may find Disability Pensions harder and harder to get.
The hard fact is that there never will be (never CAN be) 100% employment and for governments to put more and more load on those least able to carry it smacks of the bullying that they like to hold ineffectual training courses against.
It's just another symptom of the out of date, tired old Two Major Party tag team form of government that we suffer under.
Darkhorseman: There will always be a small percentage of people that are unemployable. These people are usually mentally or emotionally traumatised to the point where they cannot be usefully and reliably employed. The physically disabled are usually catered for (Disability pension is higher than "Jobseeker" Allowance). However if you have a physical disability that is not "visible", such as a back injury, you may find Disability Pensions harder and harder to get.
The hard fact is that there never will be (never CAN be) 100% employment and for governments to put more and more load on those least able to carry it smacks of the bullying that they like to hold ineffectual training courses against.
It's just another symptom of the out of date, tired old Two Major Party tag team form of government that we suffer under.
The hard fact is that there never will be (never CAN be) 100% employment and for governments to put more and more load on those least able to carry it smacks of the bullying that they like to hold ineffectual training courses against.
It's just another symptom of the out of date, tired old Two Major Party tag team form of government that we suffer under.
I disagree with you on two areas.
1. Your statement regarding unemployable people: I have known many unemployed people who had very high qualifications and they were out of work outside of their fault. I am talking about IT professionals with 30-40 years of industrial experience and people who used to work as managers, CEOs but are now over their 40s, 50s. I have a few uni degrees and have been out of work for over six months. Companies are looking for the perfect match and they rather bring in someone from overseas than spend a single dollar on training people up to close the skill gap. Maybe there should be a tax incentive, but these parties are so out of touch with reality.
2. Back problem as invisible: Of course, there are people who claim pain but have no medically established damage to their back, but the problem is that it is even hard for people who have clear medical evidence to get the disability. Unless you have been through treatment and your doctor states that this is best you can get, you cannot get the disability pension. Medical profession cannot help people with disc problems and it is pointless to require them to go through treatments - wasting thousands of Medicare dollars. I know a lady who has been receiving physiotherapy for the last ten years and by now two of her bones in her spine are fused together. Now imagine the huge amount of money that her physio cost.
The problem is, when you are ill, you need that extra money to get by - not years later when you have been through treatments and your condition is accessed as stabilised, but right at the time of your sickness, however, do you realise that you only receive $6/2wks extra for the pharmaceutical benefit? Very generous indeed.
There could be 100% employment if the government sponsored meaningful jobs with real companies where you could obtain real work experience. So if you drop out of work you get straight into sponsored job for less pay, but your skills are not wasted.
When I lost my job I contacted companies and offered them to work for a month for free, so they could check me out with no obligation, risk or expense on their part (except for the additional insurance). None of them were interested.
In this economic climate where skills change so rapidly people need to be adaptable Training is the only way If people want work they have to adapt look at the growth industries in your areas train to fit the nitch ,
People should not be paid to sit on their arses and PLAY SONY!
If they dont like working for the dole
Get a job!
People should not be paid to sit on their arses and PLAY SONY!
If they dont like working for the dole
Get a job!
kizzy27: In this economic climate where skills change so rapidly people need to be adaptable Training is the only way If people want work they have to adapt look at the growth industries in your areas train to fit the nitch ,
People should not be paid to sit on their arses and PLAY SONY!
If they dont like working for the dole
Get a job!
People should not be paid to sit on their arses and PLAY SONY!
If they dont like working for the dole
Get a job!
You have little understanding about the plight of the unemployed. Most of them want to work but don't get jobs. It is not fun to be out of work. If you think it is, why don't you try it?
The idea of the work for the dole was to give work experience to the people. It utterly failed in that respect. Unemployed need training and meaningful work experience, not work for the dole rubbish.
Sure, you can get training while you work to up your skills and climb the ladder. But very often you don't need additional training to do your job and in many trades training is utterly unaffordable to people. Can you shell out $5-6k for a one week training? That is what you need in IT to get a certificate. To get basic training in two areas cost you $10-12k. If you think that raising children you can afford such expenses you must live on the moon. These training charges are designed for companies that can deduct the cost from their taxes, not for individuals. If you are with a company that refuses to send you to training courses you are stuffed.
revealer24: You have little understanding about the plight of the unemployed. Most of them want to work but don't get jobs. It is not fun to be out of work. If you think it is, why don't you try it?
The idea of the work for the dole was to give work experience to the people. It utterly failed in that respect. Unemployed need training and meaningful work experience, not work for the dole rubbish.
Sure, you can get training while you work to up your skills and climb the ladder. But very often you don't need additional training to do your job and in many trades training is utterly unaffordable to people. Can you shell out $5-6k for a one week training? That is what you need in IT to get a certificate. To get basic training in two areas cost you $10-12k. If you think that raising children you can afford such expenses you must live on the moon. These training charges are designed for companies that can deduct the cost from their taxes, not for individuals. If you are with a company that refuses to send you to training courses you are stuffed.
The idea of the work for the dole was to give work experience to the people. It utterly failed in that respect. Unemployed need training and meaningful work experience, not work for the dole rubbish.
Sure, you can get training while you work to up your skills and climb the ladder. But very often you don't need additional training to do your job and in many trades training is utterly unaffordable to people. Can you shell out $5-6k for a one week training? That is what you need in IT to get a certificate. To get basic training in two areas cost you $10-12k. If you think that raising children you can afford such expenses you must live on the moon. These training charges are designed for companies that can deduct the cost from their taxes, not for individuals. If you are with a company that refuses to send you to training courses you are stuffed.
There are two sides to this argument some want jobs... some dont some are lazy some are not.You cannot state what people are thinking or doing ....accept that.
revealer24: You have little understanding about the plight of the unemployed. Most of them want to work but don't get jobs. It is not fun to be out of work. If you think it is, why don't you try it?
The idea of the work for the dole was to give work experience to the people. It utterly failed in that respect. Unemployed need training and meaningful work experience, not work for the dole rubbish.
Sure, you can get training while you work to up your skills and climb the ladder. But very often you don't need additional training to do your job and in many trades training is utterly unaffordable to people. Can you shell out $5-6k for a one week training? That is what you need in IT to get a certificate. To get basic training in two areas cost you $10-12k. If you think that raising children you can afford such expenses you must live on the moon. These training charges are designed for companies that can deduct the cost from their taxes, not for individuals. If you are with a company that refuses to send you to training courses you are stuffed.
The idea of the work for the dole was to give work experience to the people. It utterly failed in that respect. Unemployed need training and meaningful work experience, not work for the dole rubbish.
Sure, you can get training while you work to up your skills and climb the ladder. But very often you don't need additional training to do your job and in many trades training is utterly unaffordable to people. Can you shell out $5-6k for a one week training? That is what you need in IT to get a certificate. To get basic training in two areas cost you $10-12k. If you think that raising children you can afford such expenses you must live on the moon. These training charges are designed for companies that can deduct the cost from their taxes, not for individuals. If you are with a company that refuses to send you to training courses you are stuffed.
I work in 2 totally different fields welfare and community nursing I also run my own realestate business Ive educated myself while raising 2 children alone for the past 6 years.I could have sat on a pension and done sweet fark but instead I chose to redevelop myself within a growth industry and in the intrim establish a second income stream to support my family while I studied .While unemployed people can get assistance thru their job network agency for courses clothing even shoes and petrol.So what if your a biochemist if there isnt a need then learn to pull a beer.
Adapt mate or join the queues
kizzy27: I work in 2 totally different fields welfare and community nursing I also run my own realestate business Ive educated myself while raising 2 children alone for the past 6 years.I could have sat on a pension and done sweet fark but instead I chose to redevelop myself within a growth industry and in the intrim establish a second income stream to support my family while I studied .While unemployed people can get assistance thru their job network agency for courses clothing even shoes and petrol.So what if your a biochemist if there isnt a need then learn to pull a beer.
Adapt mate or join the queues
Adapt mate or join the queues
normalguy68: We used the NEIS scheme to start our bookshop, we got the dole for a year while establishing the business. After that we were on our own but after 6 years in business, it's going stronger than ever.
You can get your truck license on the dole payed for or other courses as well to get the qualifications you need to obtain a job.
There are so many young people in my town who have never worked a day in their lives, but you see the disabled checkout chicks in Woolworths and and their partners down at the recycle yard or out mowing lawns on the disabled employment program. They have much more get up and go than the youth who've never got a little dirt on their pinkies as the baby plasma bonus and other payments keep them comfortable enough not to have to get out of their self made poverty traps.
You can get your truck license on the dole payed for or other courses as well to get the qualifications you need to obtain a job.
There are so many young people in my town who have never worked a day in their lives, but you see the disabled checkout chicks in Woolworths and and their partners down at the recycle yard or out mowing lawns on the disabled employment program. They have much more get up and go than the youth who've never got a little dirt on their pinkies as the baby plasma bonus and other payments keep them comfortable enough not to have to get out of their self made poverty traps.
I used to work with a young boy with Downs Syndrome, he was such a happy and hard worker, never took anything for granted, always did his job properly, he was a pleasure to work with.
akaRALF: I used to work with a young boy with Downs Syndrome, he was such a happy and hard worker, never took anything for granted, always did his job properly, he was a pleasure to work with.
They know they are so lucky to get the job that they put more effort into keeping the job and going beyond what they have to.Martia: There are two sides to this argument some want jobs... some dont some are lazy some are not.You cannot state what people are thinking or doing ....accept that.
This is why you cannot put all unemployed into the same basket. You need to look at them on a case by case basis. Treating everyone the same is very simplistic and harmful.
Apologies, I am just tired. I shouldn't have written "rubbish".
I agree that some people don't want to work. Others do. But not everyone are the same. All I am saying is you need to look at the individual cases. It is not good to generalise.
I agree that some people don't want to work. Others do. But not everyone are the same. All I am saying is you need to look at the individual cases. It is not good to generalise.
revealer24: Apologies, I am just tired. I shouldn't have written "rubbish".
I agree that some people don't want to work. Others do. But not everyone are the same. All I am saying is you need to look at the individual cases. It is not good to generalise.
I agree that some people don't want to work. Others do. But not everyone are the same. All I am saying is you need to look at the individual cases. It is not good to generalise.
Just go to sleep and dream of finding the love of your life
Lighten up and join in dont be so serious and grumpy
there are very few fools on this forum as you can see!its just a place to escape to and have a laugh.
I am now in a wonderful relationship... but still pop in to relax and enjoy the repartee on here.
Personally I think that 'work for the dole', 'work for the pension' work for whatever $$ you receive is a good thing.
Because in the real world.. we DO HAVE TO WORK for what we get. No one should ride the wave for free.
I also think that its snobbish to believe that someone is over educated to answer phones, make coffees, take messages, whatever. Everyone will pick up skills albeit customer relations, organisational, working under pressure, patience. These REAL life skills are useful in any and every job and situation - management get the feel for what it is like to be on the coalface. All skills are important not just skills pertaining to ones chosen profession.
As for the cost of study - thats a cost that is assisted by the Government for unemployed people, pensioners, and such. Perhaps not much with some courses, but with other courses they can be undertaken for free.
If work isnt available in ones chosen profession, then one has a responsibility to oneself, ones family, and the rest of the tax paying public to seek employment elsewhere. Im not too proud to clean toilets, make coffees, cook fish and chips - thats how I paid my way through university.
Its NOT okay to sit around, taking handouts and bemoaning the current job situation when one isnt prepared to apply for each and every job available. Dominos are always looking for drivers - tell em to go and apply there!!!
Any job is better than NO job
Because in the real world.. we DO HAVE TO WORK for what we get. No one should ride the wave for free.
I also think that its snobbish to believe that someone is over educated to answer phones, make coffees, take messages, whatever. Everyone will pick up skills albeit customer relations, organisational, working under pressure, patience. These REAL life skills are useful in any and every job and situation - management get the feel for what it is like to be on the coalface. All skills are important not just skills pertaining to ones chosen profession.
As for the cost of study - thats a cost that is assisted by the Government for unemployed people, pensioners, and such. Perhaps not much with some courses, but with other courses they can be undertaken for free.
If work isnt available in ones chosen profession, then one has a responsibility to oneself, ones family, and the rest of the tax paying public to seek employment elsewhere. Im not too proud to clean toilets, make coffees, cook fish and chips - thats how I paid my way through university.
Its NOT okay to sit around, taking handouts and bemoaning the current job situation when one isnt prepared to apply for each and every job available. Dominos are always looking for drivers - tell em to go and apply there!!!
Any job is better than NO jobnormalguy68: We used the NEIS scheme to start our bookshop, we got the dole for a year while establishing the business. After that we were on our own but after 6 years in business, it's going stronger than ever.
You can get your truck license on the dole payed for or other courses as well to get the qualifications you need to obtain a job.
There are so many young people in my town who have never worked a day in their lives, but you see the disabled checkout chicks in Woolworths and and their partners down at the recycle yard or out mowing lawns on the disabled employment program. They have much more get up and go than the youth who've never got a little dirt on their pinkies as the baby plasma bonus and other payments keep them comfortable enough not to have to get out of their self made poverty traps.
You can get your truck license on the dole payed for or other courses as well to get the qualifications you need to obtain a job.
There are so many young people in my town who have never worked a day in their lives, but you see the disabled checkout chicks in Woolworths and and their partners down at the recycle yard or out mowing lawns on the disabled employment program. They have much more get up and go than the youth who've never got a little dirt on their pinkies as the baby plasma bonus and other payments keep them comfortable enough not to have to get out of their self made poverty traps.
The welfare circus has to stop !There are now 3 generation families that have never worked !! Kids bought up thinking why bother working!! why bother getting educated !!
Australia is one of the luckiest nations on earth Here you can be what eva you want to be in 4 yrs you can go from earning zip to 80 thou plus just with a tafe course or 2 !!and its free !!!
Martia: Just go to sleep and dream of finding the love of your life
Lighten up and join in dont be so serious and grumpy
there are very few fools on this forum as you can see!its just a place to escape to and have a laugh.
I am now in a wonderful relationship... but still pop in to relax and enjoy the repartee on here.
Lighten up and join in dont be so serious and grumpy
there are very few fools on this forum as you can see!its just a place to escape to and have a laugh.
I am now in a wonderful relationship... but still pop in to relax and enjoy the repartee on here.
Martia This thread is in the current events section , we all know your madly in love thats great but there are other topics of interest apart from dreaming of finding love ....
Im sorry but if this isnt the type of thread you like dont enter .
I am very interested in the budget and where it will lead our nation.
Shell225: Personally I think that 'work for the dole', 'work for the pension' work for whatever $$ you receive is a good thing.
Because in the real world.. we DO HAVE TO WORK for what we get. No one should ride the wave for free.
I also think that its snobbish to believe that someone is over educated to answer phones, make coffees, take messages, whatever. Everyone will pick up skills albeit customer relations, organisational, working under pressure, patience.
Because in the real world.. we DO HAVE TO WORK for what we get. No one should ride the wave for free.
I also think that its snobbish to believe that someone is over educated to answer phones, make coffees, take messages, whatever. Everyone will pick up skills albeit customer relations, organisational, working under pressure, patience.
I am not talking about being busy in whatever you do. But the "work for the dole" thing is like answering the phone twice a day the have coffee and have a chat, etc. A waste of time. I'd hate a workplace where I am not flat out because I would be checking the time all the time.
Shell225: These REAL life skills are useful in any and every job and situation - management get the feel for what it is like to be on the coalface. All skills are important not just skills pertaining to ones chosen profession.
The problem is you don't actually pick up *any* real skills in most of these.
After the dotcom crash I did the work for the dole. I opted for a charity organisation because they agreed that I'd setup for them a complete office network, website, customer management system and document management system along with a complete website (content management system) and would have remotely maintained it as long as I lived.
I got four quotes for them which were within their budget. Apart from this I was sitting in their office chatting and answering a very few phone calls. Nothing else. It was a complete waste of time and effort.
My problem was not that I had to work, but that I wanted to and could not.
Shell225: As for the cost of study - thats a cost that is assisted by the Government for unemployed people, pensioners, and such. Perhaps not much with some courses, but with other courses they can be undertaken for free.
They help you to pay part of a Cert III course, that's about it.
Shell225: If work isnt available in ones chosen profession, then one has a responsibility to oneself, ones family, and the rest of the tax paying public to seek employment elsewhere. Im not too proud to clean toilets, make coffees, cook fish and chips - thats how I paid my way through university.
Its NOT okay to sit around, taking handouts and bemoaning the current job situation when one isnt prepared to apply for each and every job available. Dominos are always looking for drivers - tell em to go and apply there!!! Any job is better than NO job
Its NOT okay to sit around, taking handouts and bemoaning the current job situation when one isnt prepared to apply for each and every job available. Dominos are always looking for drivers - tell em to go and apply there!!! Any job is better than NO job
I don't agree with you about "handouts". We all paid our taxes. When you drop out of work you get some of it back. The problem is not with welfare for the poor, but with middle class and corporate welfare. Gee, I'd like to be able write off $5000 when I buy a car. What do they do for this free money (handout)? And can you tell me why on earth families with $150kpa income still receive "handouts"? If your family income is over $100kpa you should not put your hand out for the public money and do nothing for that money.
I remember in the 90's I paid $14k in tax when Kerry Packer paid $10k after his $4billion business empire. These are the guys you need to go after, not the poor.
Welfare has an effect of narrowing wealth disparity. The mess we are in is the result of too great wealth disparity. The Great Depression of the 30's was caused by this very thing. At that time 1% of the population owned 40% wealth. The normal level is 10%. No wonder the 99% stopped buying goods and services.
Today in the US this figure is 75% and in Australia it was 40% in 2005!!! If you think there will be recovery, you are dreaming. I have never seen so many shops closing since I live in Australia.
And now prepare for the second slump - sorry, no boom time - which will be far worse than the first one was. There is a quadrillion dollar debt in the world and it must deflate. Just like the OZ real estate bubble.
Welfare is not the problem. What you need is increased welfare, not reduced. Take from the top and give it to the disadvantage. That is money going straight into the economy as it converts to rents, food, etc. It is an enormous help for small businesses that the government pumps something like $70billion a year into the economy through welfare.
Take it away and see what will happen.
Martia: There are two sides to this argument some want jobs... some dont some are lazy some are not.You cannot state what people are thinking or doing ....accept that.
Quite agree. You cannot put everyone in the same basket. There are people who just want to go to the beach and have fun. Young kids share a home together and enjoy themselves. But nobody should think that everyone are like that.
Martia: Just go to sleep and dream of finding the love of your life
Lighten up and join in dont be so serious and grumpy
there are very few fools on this forum as you can see!its just a place to escape to and have a laugh.
I am now in a wonderful relationship... but still pop in to relax and enjoy the repartee on here.
Lighten up and join in dont be so serious and grumpy
there are very few fools on this forum as you can see!its just a place to escape to and have a laugh.
I am now in a wonderful relationship... but still pop in to relax and enjoy the repartee on here.
LOL. Martia, thanks for the kind words :-)
I have been both on the top and on the bottom. I know what it's like. It is wrong and harmful to generalise that everyone who is out of work is a dole bludger. Just like saying that all Muslims are terrorists. Untrue, false and harmful.
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