News! Who do you think is in the right?? (112)

Jul 23, 2009 1:37 PM CST News! Who do you think is in the right??
SensualVixen
SensualVixenSensualVixenTampa Bay area, Florida USA30 Threads 1,726 Posts
I have stated this three times Michael....Gates was arrested for disorderly conduct WHICH BY LAW IS A CRIME.
Jul 23, 2009 1:37 PM CST News! Who do you think is in the right??
liveNlarger
liveNlargerliveNlargerin a good place, Kildare Ireland246 Posts
Musica Poetica by Carl Orf
heart wings
Jul 23, 2009 1:39 PM CST News! Who do you think is in the right??
Snuggs09
Snuggs09Snuggs09Somewhere, New Jersey USA128 Threads 1 Polls 2,615 Posts
SensualVixen: Mr. Gates was arrested for disorderly conduct for getting biligerent with Officer Crowley pulling the race card and screaming he was being questioned for being black. He was being questioned if that indeed was his home since the neighbor called the police saying someone was breaking and entering, which Gates did because he didn't have his key.

He was not lured unto his porch. He was asked to come outside for questioning because the police did not have a warrant.

Don't you people ever watch the TV show "Cops"????



OMG.......you crack me up girl rolling on the floor laughing rolling on the floor laughing

People don't understand that you cannot talk back to a cop.

That's just the way it is.

Michael's high and mighty attitude would surely cause him to be arrested even in gool 'ol Texas.
Jul 23, 2009 1:42 PM CST News! Who do you think is in the right??
Michael211_2000
Michael211_2000Michael211_2000Houston, Texas USA22 Threads 5 Polls 775 Posts
Snuggs09: Exactly The officer felt threatened. Police don't take kindly to people screaming at them.

This is a political situation. Obama must have known the question was going to come up. He joked his way through the answer the reporter asked and when his answer got a laugh from the other reporters, they blew it off.


The officer felt threatened, or was threatened? There is a difference you know. Anybody can claim to feel threatened and frankly I don't believe that's a crime anywhere... but if somebody outright threatens you, then things are different! So which was it, feeling threatened or being threatened? That's what I'd like to know here since you brought it up!

If the homeowner, Henry, committed a crime in MA what was it? Somebody please tell me! Otherwise, the police officer and the city have big problems on their hands and it will get expensive!

What I saw of Obama on TV yesterday evening, when he was asked at the end about this incident, I didn't notice any joking or laughing or light being made of this incident. He seemed to be giving a very serious reply to the question, though he did try to lighten the mood somewhat by joking about the White House and being arrested if even he tried to break in to the White House (if I understood him correctly). But other than that small joke to lighten the mood a little, he answered the question very directly and seriously, I thought.

- Michael ("American by birth, Texan by the Grace of God!") sad flower
Jul 23, 2009 1:43 PM CST News! Who do you think is in the right??
SensualVixen
SensualVixenSensualVixenTampa Bay area, Florida USA30 Threads 1,726 Posts
Snuggs09: OMG.......you crack me up girl

People don't understand that you cannot talk back to a cop.

That's just the way it is.

Michael's high and mighty attitude would surely cause him to be arrested even in gool 'ol Texas.



I think Michael should be placed under CS house arrest for not knowing any of the facts.......grin

J/K Michael........
Jul 23, 2009 1:46 PM CST News! Who do you think is in the right??
SensualVixen
SensualVixenSensualVixenTampa Bay area, Florida USA30 Threads 1,726 Posts
Michael211_2000: The officer felt threatened, or was threatened? There is a difference you know. Anybody can claim to feel threatened and frankly I don't believe that's a crime anywhere... but if somebody outright threatens you, then things are different! So which was it, feeling threatened or being threatened? That's what I'd like to know here since you brought it up!

If the homeowner, Henry, committed a crime in MA what was it? Somebody please tell me! Otherwise, the police officer and the city have big problems on their hands and it will get expensive!

What I saw of Obama on TV yesterday evening, when he was asked at the end about this incident, I didn't notice any joking or laughing or light being made of this incident. He seemed to be giving a very serious reply to the question, though he did try to lighten the mood somewhat by joking about the White House and being arrested if even he tried to break in to the White House (if I understood him correctly). But other than that small joke to lighten the mood a little, he answered the question very directly and seriously, I thought.

- Michael ("American by birth, Texan by the Grace of God!")


I have told you four times Michael.........Gates was arrested for disorderly conduct, which is a crime, for the 5th and final time!
Jul 23, 2009 1:47 PM CST News! Who do you think is in the right??
Snuggs09
Snuggs09Snuggs09Somewhere, New Jersey USA128 Threads 1 Polls 2,615 Posts
Michael211_2000: The officer felt threatened, or was threatened? There is a difference you know. Anybody can claim to feel threatened and frankly I don't believe that's a crime anywhere... but if somebody outright threatens you, then things are different! So which was it, feeling threatened or being threatened? That's what I'd like to know here since you brought it up!

If the homeowner, Henry, committed a crime in MA what was it? Somebody please tell me! Otherwise, the police officer and the city have big problems on their hands and it will get expensive!

What I saw of Obama on TV yesterday evening, when he was asked at the end about this incident, I didn't notice any joking or laughing or light being made of this incident. He seemed to be giving a very serious reply to the question, though he did try to lighten the mood somewhat by joking about the White House and being arrested if even he tried to break in to the White House (if I understood him correctly). But other than that small joke to lighten the mood a little, he answered the question very directly and seriously, I thought.

- Michael ("American by birth, Texan by the Grace of God!")



You ask it again, what was the crime. SV told you three times. Whether you like cops or not, you have to respect them. And if you don't, I'll say it again, they will remind you who has the upper hand.

Feeling threatened is enough for an officer to take action.
Jul 23, 2009 1:51 PM CST News! Who do you think is in the right??
Snuggs09
Snuggs09Snuggs09Somewhere, New Jersey USA128 Threads 1 Polls 2,615 Posts
Snuggs09: You ask it again, what was the crime. SV told you three times. Whether you like cops or not, you have to respect them. And if you don't, I'll say it again, they will remind you who has the upper hand.

Feeling threatened is enough for an officer to take action.



Oops....you got that email in before I did. SV has now told you 5 times.... the officer was beligerent a/k/a nasty.

Many years ago when I had only one year in working in a law office, a copy stopped me for speeding. He was screaming at but I didn't scream back. Guess why. Because I know you can't do that to a cop. If I had known what I know now I would have taken down his badge number and written a letter to his superior. When I told my daughter about it, she said that the cop's partner was probably embarrassed to death the way his partner screamed at me.
Jul 23, 2009 1:51 PM CST News! Who do you think is in the right??
Michael211_2000
Michael211_2000Michael211_2000Houston, Texas USA22 Threads 5 Polls 775 Posts
SensualVixen: I have stated this three times Michael....Gates was arrested for disorderly conduct WHICH BY LAW IS A CRIME.


In his own home? Disorderly conduct is an offense in public in Texas (and most all other states, at least I thought!). I can be as disorderly as I want to in my own home... my home is not a public space.

Evidentally Mr. Henry Gates was not committing disorderly conduct, the charges were very quickly dropped... the police officer had no case against the homeowner. Hello!

Hey ya'll, I believe they were both wrong BUT I believe the impending court case will show that only 1 person committed a crime and it will be very expensive for the taxpayers there! That's my opinion... you're welcome to disagree.

I scorn people of non-caucasion descent who wanna "play the race card". Truely, I don't think that's at all cool!

- Michael ("American by Birth, Texan by the Grace of God!") sad flower
Jul 23, 2009 1:54 PM CST News! Who do you think is in the right??
Michael211_2000: Yeah that would seem like a good idea, ideally. But, it's not a law (even in MA, is it?).

The police officer however did not arrest Henry for breaking into his house, or any other crime that anybody has listed to my knowledge. What was Henry's crime? If he hadn't committed a crime, then arresting him to show him "who is boss" IS false arrest and that's a crime IMO at least. Funny how everybody forgets that.

And yes, had I been in Henry's position I would have quite willingly explained the situation and gotten my Texas Drivers License out of my vehicle and proven to the officer's satisfaction that it was my home and I'd locked myself out... and I would thank them for checking out the situation thoroughly and professionally (assuming they did so professionally), as I'd hate to have my house broken in to and my things stolen or vandalized!

But what went on between this particular police officer and the homeowner only those 2 know for sure and I doubt they have the same memory of the event. However, the homeowner evidentally committed no crime... is so, kindly tell me what crime he committed... which means that the police office likely did! That's bad, and makes me angry even from afar.

- Michael ("American by birth, Texan by the Grace of God!")
I appreciate your response. There are always going to be unknown factors in these types of events. It becomes "he said, he said", ad nauseum. I get this. Aggressive behavior and belligerence may be fairly interpreted as hostile;assaultive. THIS is criminal. I believe the homeowner took the opportunity to show them up, he escalated, providing them with actionable cause. If evidence proves differently, I will defer. And it does not come so easily for me to always believe authority, just because. I am fully aware that they are deeply wrong, AT TIMES. However, the homeowner TOOK ADVANTAGE of the fact that he was in his home. How could the officers possibly have known this, when there was every indication that he appeared to be breaking in? We are going to see more and more of this. I suggest a good solution would be for the police and the homeowner to go through arbitration, avoid the expense of court, etc... perhaps have a public forum, each side calmly explaining their end of it, and both apologizing, then forging a neighborhood partnership based on respecting the rights, differences, and so forth of everyone in the community. This works in at least some communities, and eliminates, or at least puts a dent in, this Us vers. Them crappola which has gone on far too long.
Jul 23, 2009 1:56 PM CST News! Who do you think is in the right??
Snuggs09
Snuggs09Snuggs09Somewhere, New Jersey USA128 Threads 1 Polls 2,615 Posts
Michael211_2000: In his own home? Disorderly conduct is an offense in public in Texas (and most all other states, at least I thought!). I can be as disorderly as I want to in my own home... my home is not a public space.

Evidentally Mr. Henry Gates was not committing disorderly conduct, the charges were very quickly dropped... the police officer had no case against the homeowner. Hello!

Hey ya'll, I believe they were both wrong BUT I believe the impending court case will show that only 1 person committed a crime and it will be very expensive for the taxpayers there! That's my opinion... you're welcome to disagree.

I scorn people of non-caucasion descent who wanna "play the race card". Truely, I don't think that's at all cool!

- Michael ("American by Birth, Texan by the Grace of God!")



I hate to keep saying "my daughter" but she is my source of SOP's.

She is a Sheriff's Officer and works in domestic violence. When she goes to a home to "encourage" someone to leave, they tend to get beligerent. If she feels threatened, she calls the local police and they will come to assist or arrest the person she is attempting to leave the home.
Jul 23, 2009 2:03 PM CST News! Who do you think is in the right??
SensualVixen
SensualVixenSensualVixenTampa Bay area, Florida USA30 Threads 1,726 Posts
No use it explaining it to Michael, Snuggs. Look how many times I had to explain to him for whatGates was arrestested. He doesn't want to listen........
Jul 23, 2009 2:04 PM CST News! Who do you think is in the right??
SensualVixen
SensualVixenSensualVixenTampa Bay area, Florida USA30 Threads 1,726 Posts
SensualVixen: No use it explaining it to Michael, Snuggs. Look how many times I had to explain to him for whatGates was arrestested. He doesn't want to listen........


*arrested

Michael still thinks Gates was arrested in his home. Love these know it alls......
Jul 23, 2009 2:05 PM CST News! Who do you think is in the right??
SensualVixen: No use it explaining it to Michael, Snuggs. Look how many times I had to explain to him for whatGates was arrestested. He doesn't want to listen........
I'm a gonna give him a chance. Men are difficult, but not totally impossible. I tried to explain it as fairly and clearly as my education can--think he'll at least look at other points of view. Have faith, darlings!
Jul 23, 2009 2:09 PM CST News! Who do you think is in the right??
SensualVixen
SensualVixenSensualVixenTampa Bay area, Florida USA30 Threads 1,726 Posts
rohaan: I'm a gonna give him a chance. Men are difficult, but not totally impossible. I tried to explain it as fairly and clearly as my education can--think he'll at least look at other points of view. Have faith, darlings!


Go for it......personally, I think Michael needs to pull that Aggie out of his rear and read what is being typed by others here so he knows some of the facts...grin
Jul 23, 2009 2:09 PM CST News! Who do you think is in the right??
Michael211_2000
Michael211_2000Michael211_2000Houston, Texas USA22 Threads 5 Polls 775 Posts
Snuggs09: SV has now told you 5 times.... the officer was beligerent a/k/a nasty.


Well then somebody should have arrested the officer then! Geez! So if the officer was beligerent, what was the homeowner's crime.... and why were all charges primptly dropped against the homeowner?

Snuggs/Vixen there are posts being made (including your own) while I'm working here and composing only in my spare moments... just because we crossed posts doesn't mean I'm ignoring what you posted, I may just not have read it yet cause I was on the Post Comment page composing a line from time to time for 20 minutes or longer. LOL!

Be nice for Pete's sake! I try hard to be even and just... probably why I'm not in law enforcement, I wouldn't fit in! Ha!

If feeling threatened is enough for a police officer to arrest somebody, then we have a really BIG problem in this nation... cause that is just plain wrong, IMHO.

Actually I recall another case in Houston not long ago where an NFL quarterback was tazered and arrested because, as I recall, the officers "felt threatened because he was a big man" (that was the only reason the officers could come up with, as I recall!). I cannot recall exactly how that turned out but I believe the officers at least got reprimands and all charges were dropped against the quarterback... feeling threatened is NOT a crime, at least not in Texas. This I know.

Tall people make short people feel threatened just by the fact that there's a height difference... I mean, be real! Big difference between being threatened and feeling threatened and feeling threatened is not an acceptable excuse for police crime.

Snuggs, interesting story you relate, but you weren't stopped for speeding on your own private property. In that, your situation was considerably different. Yes you should have filed a complaint, cause somebody with that "copy's" (what's a copy btw?) attitude shouldn't be allowed to carry a firearm (if copy's carry firearms, that is)! And that "copy" probably continued treating citizens thatta way... hopefully somebody finally did complain about him/her!!!

I have nothing against honest professional police officers, and I try my very best to be as respectful as possible whenever I meet one under any circumstance... I sure wouldn't want their job I swear! However, it doesn't take very many rotten apples to spoil the entire harvest, and police have to obey the laws as well darn'it, I insist and believe every citizen has the right to insist! The badge does not absolve one from following the law, in all honesty those who wear the badge should lead by example... which I often find they don't.

Regards.

- Michael ("American by birth, Texan by the Grace of God!") sad flower
Jul 23, 2009 2:13 PM CST News! Who do you think is in the right??
Michael211_2000
Michael211_2000Michael211_2000Houston, Texas USA22 Threads 5 Polls 775 Posts
SensualVixen: *arrested

Michael still thinks Gates was arrested in his home. Love these know it alls......


Scuse me! Look who's into calling names now? confused

Michael knows Gates was arrested on his front porch, which in Texas is considered your home as well.

I haven't called you any names at all Vixen, what does that say about you and me I wonder? Hmmmm....

- Michael ("American by birth, Texan by the Grace of God!") sad flower
Jul 23, 2009 2:14 PM CST News! Who do you think is in the right??
Snuggs09
Snuggs09Snuggs09Somewhere, New Jersey USA128 Threads 1 Polls 2,615 Posts
Michael211_2000: Well then somebody should have arrested the officer then! Geez! So if the officer was beligerent, what was the homeowner's crime.... and why were all charges primptly dropped against the homeowner?

Snuggs/Vixen there are posts being made (including your own) while I'm working here and composing only in my spare moments... just because we crossed posts doesn't mean I'm ignoring what you posted, I may just not have read it yet cause I was on the Post Comment page composing a line from time to time for 20 minutes or longer. LOL!

Be nice for Pete's sake! I try hard to be even and just... probably why I'm not in law enforcement, I wouldn't fit in! Ha!

If feeling threatened is enough for a police officer to arrest somebody, then we have a really BIG problem in this nation... cause that is just plain wrong, IMHO.

Actually I recall another case in Houston not long ago where an NFL quarterback was tazered and arrested because, as I recall, the officers "felt threatened because he was a big man" (that was the only reason the officers could come up with, as I recall!). I cannot recall exactly how that turned out but I believe the officers at least got reprimands and all charges were dropped against the quarterback... feeling threatened is NOT a crime, at least not in Texas. This I know.

Tall people make short people feel threatened just by the fact that there's a height difference... I mean, be real! Big difference between being threatened and feeling threatened and feeling threatened is not an acceptable excuse for police crime.

Snuggs, interesting story you relate, but you weren't stopped for speeding on your own private property. In that, your situation was considerably different. Yes you should have filed a complaint, cause somebody with that "copy's" (what's a copy btw?) attitude shouldn't be allowed to carry a firearm (if copy's carry firearms, that is)! And that "copy" probably continued treating citizens thatta way... hopefully somebody finally did complain about him/her!!!

I have nothing against honest professional police officers, and I try my very best to be as respectful as possible whenever I meet one under any circumstance... I sure wouldn't want their job I swear! However, it doesn't take very many rotten apples to spoil the entire harvest, and police have to obey the laws as well darn'it, I insist and believe every citizen has the right to insist! The badge does not absolve one from following the law, in all honesty those who wear the badge should lead by example... which I often find they don't.

Regards.

- Michael ("American by birth, Texan by the Grace of God!")



I made two typos. Copy = cop. And I said the officer was beligerent ..... again you know what I meant.
Jul 23, 2009 2:16 PM CST News! Who do you think is in the right??
You cannot be disorderly in your own home. You can't yell, scream at, or otherwise harass someone just because they are in your home.Your behavior has to be orderly, as such, EVEN IN YOUR OWN HOME. I know many of you don't agree, or don't like the idea of this, but mark my word--conduct even inside your own home is actionable if deemed inappropriate. By the same token, consider this: the police can search your vehicle. In and out. Without a warrant. Have you committed a crime? Nope. Just driving along, doo da doo da doo....putt putt putt....
Jul 23, 2009 2:17 PM CST News! Who do you think is in the right??
Michael211_2000
Michael211_2000Michael211_2000Houston, Texas USA22 Threads 5 Polls 775 Posts
SensualVixen: Go for it......personally, I think Michael needs to pull that Aggie out of his rear and read what is being typed by others here so he knows some of the facts...


Ahh! So you're the source of all fact now then? Well excuse ignorant me!

I'm Texan, I didn't go to Texas A&M. Get your fact straight please. comfort

Name calling and insults don't get you anywhere Vixen. Not cool, not cool at all.

- Michael ("American by birth, Texan by the Grace of God!") sad flower
Jul 23, 2009 2:17 PM CST News! Who do you think is in the right??
SensualVixen
SensualVixenSensualVixenTampa Bay area, Florida USA30 Threads 1,726 Posts
I am joking with you Michael, I understand....

I never said the officer was biligerent. I said Gates got biligerent. Snuggs said that the officer was biligerent. Which is not true according to eye witness accounts.

Gates got biligerent with Officer Crowley after Gates stepped outside onto his own porch. Gates, who is black started pulling "the race card" and started screaming at Officer Crowley, who is white. Crowley then arrested Gates for disorderly conduct of which charges were later dropped.....
Jul 23, 2009 2:19 PM CST News! Who do you think is in the right??
Michael211_2000
Michael211_2000Michael211_2000Houston, Texas USA22 Threads 5 Polls 775 Posts
Snuggs09: I made two typos. Copy = cop. And I said the officer was beligerent ..... again you know what I meant.


Well I'm a literal type of person Snuggs. That's just he way I am. I read what you write and I take it for face value. Sorry. help

Regards.

- Michael ("American by birth, Texan by the Grace of God!") sad flower
Jul 23, 2009 2:20 PM CST News! Who do you think is in the right??
SensualVixen: Go for it......personally, I think Michael needs to pull that Aggie out of his rear and read what is being typed by others here so he knows some of the facts...
Honey!

"you get a line, and I'll get a pole, HONEY,
you get a line, and I'll get a pole, BABE
you get a line and I'll get a pole,
we'll go on down to the crawdaddy hole,
Oh Honey, Oh Sugarbaby, Mine!"

thought you'd like some comic relief--crawdaddy holes in FL?hug
Jul 23, 2009 2:20 PM CST News! Who do you think is in the right??
Snuggs09
Snuggs09Snuggs09Somewhere, New Jersey USA128 Threads 1 Polls 2,615 Posts
SensualVixen: I am joking with you Michael, I understand....

I never said the officer was biligerent. I said Gates got biligerent. Snuggs said that the officer was biligerent. Which is not true according to eye witness accounts.

Gates got biligerent with Officer Crowley after Gates stepped outside onto his own porch. Gates, who is black started pulling "the race card" and started screaming at Officer Crowley, who is white. Crowley then arrested Gates for disorderly conduct of which charges were later dropped.....



Hello......I corrected that
Jul 23, 2009 2:25 PM CST News! Who do you think is in the right??
SensualVixen
SensualVixenSensualVixenTampa Bay area, Florida USA30 Threads 1,726 Posts
Michael211_2000: Ahh! So you're the source of all fact now then? Well excuse ignorant me!

I'm Texan, I didn't go to Texas A&M. Get your fact straight please.

Name calling and insults don't get you anywhere Vixen. Not cool, not cool at all.

- Michael ("American by birth, Texan by the Grace of God!")



handshake Sorry if you took my sarcasm as insults. That is why I used the emoticons.

Do you understand most of the facts now Michael?
Again, I never stated my opinion to this case, just the facts which can be verified on any of the major news souces.
I will not state my opinion pertaining to this incident because I don't know ALL the facts, which if Gates sues the city of Cambridge will come out in a court of law. Unless, they settle out of court if a suit arises........
Jul 23, 2009 2:26 PM CST News! Who do you think is in the right??
friends4now
friends4nowfriends4nowMelbourne, Florida USA73 Threads 10 Polls 2,366 Posts
SensualVixen: Mr. Gates was arrested for disorderly conduct for getting biligerent with Officer Crowley pulling the race card and screaming he was being questioned for being black. He was being questioned if that indeed was his home since the neighbor called the police saying someone was breaking and entering, which Gates did because he didn't have his key.

He was not lured unto his porch. He was asked to come outside for questioning because the police did not have a warrant.

Don't you people ever watch the TV show "Cops"????


I wasn't disagreeing with you-I thought you were correct
Jul 23, 2009 2:29 PM CST News! Who do you think is in the right??
friends4now
friends4nowfriends4nowMelbourne, Florida USA73 Threads 10 Polls 2,366 Posts
As my professor said once in Criminal Laws class

" An officer doesn't have to be right-he has to be reasonable"

reasonable If it was reasonable for him to feel like he was in harms way he had every right to restrain and/or arrest this man
Jul 23, 2009 2:31 PM CST News! Who do you think is in the right??
SensualVixen
SensualVixenSensualVixenTampa Bay area, Florida USA30 Threads 1,726 Posts
friends4now: I wasn't disagreeing with you-I thought you were correct


I know you did, Friend....

My last part was a joke.

It was getting frustrating because Michael kept asking for what was Henry arrested, and I kept answering him, but he was not reading it.
Jul 23, 2009 2:33 PM CST News! Who do you think is in the right??
SensualVixen
SensualVixenSensualVixenTampa Bay area, Florida USA30 Threads 1,726 Posts
friends4now: As my professor said once in Criminal Laws class

" An officer doesn't have to be right-he has to be reasonable"

reasonable If it was reasonable for him to feel like he was in harms way he had every right to restrain and/or arrest this man


That is correct and evidently Officer Crowley felt threatened enough with Gates screaming at him, according to witnesses, to arrest him for disorderly conduct.
Jul 23, 2009 2:35 PM CST News! Who do you think is in the right??
Snuggs09
Snuggs09Snuggs09Somewhere, New Jersey USA128 Threads 1 Polls 2,615 Posts
SensualVixen: That is correct and evidently Officer Crowley felt threatened enough with Gates screaming at him, according to witnesses, to arrest him for disorderly conduct.



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