How long in time do you think that 'actual waterboarding' session takes? 15 minutes? 10 minutes? 5 minutes? try less than 2 minutes time.
Yes, less than 2 minutes.
Why that?
Very few people can hold their breath for longer than 2 minutes underwater. None of them drowned....so we know the sessiona were less than 2 minutes in time.
They lean head and body back on the board. They fill the nasal cavity with water. The Dr. starts the clock. They then lower the head and shoulders into the water....emersing the person. When a minute or a little more it time is up...the DR signal and end....they raise the person up. The nasal cavity empties and they can breath again. Simulated drowning. But that is all.
That is why they needed to waterboard these guys so many time to get the intell from them. Once they learned it would not kill them or give serious injure to them..... They became resistant to it.
So are you asking me again if I would or could take a a couple of minutes discomfort or distress by being waterboarded? Like this? Are you kidding?
Ever do 20 minute in the front lean and rest with a 70 pound pack, balancing your weapon on the tops of your hands on a sharp stone gravel parking lot? LOL...........standard basic training discpline here.....Dude. Our soldiers going thru basic get harsher treatment than what these three got.
But proud of it? No. Very happy today that it helped to stop several terrorist attacks on the US. Save 1000s of lives.
Lastly Dude. Ever go thru a confidence course? You know where a person stand on a platform....then fall backwards into the arms of fellow employees? For me, knowing that those doing my waterboarding....that they were US citizens... it would be just like that.....just confidence building in fellow Americans committed to the same goals and prinicples that I am.
Dude, can you or sing a few lines of Goldfinger theme song for us?
The REP did a attack ad on Nancy Polosi using Goldfinger as the theme.
She show up in the bulls eye of the film's leader Title with James Bond taking pot shots....play with those CIA undercover types will make you a target sometimes.....
Custer had Indians Scouts.....they told him.....don't go down in that valley, General Custer....there are more Indians there than we can count. Did they have ACORN back in those days?
CA rejected the new taxes. Only 23% of the state voted. The measures were largely rejected 2 to 1. Some are saying that for one of the most liberal states in the country to reject such tax proposals is a confirmation of the Tea Parties.
Some are now talking about dividing CA into two states. Like a massive restructuring or a gov't Chapt 11.
CA Gov Arnold....had not been talking about a bailout prior to the vote.....but word on the street now is.....his tone is help me Washington, help me....next month CA will have a $20b debt.
First things to go.....
health insurance for 177,000 children school food programs 10,000+ teachers 5,000+ state workers
and CA is now offering key State own real estate on the market....
anyone one some of the bear state for a discount price...now is the time to speak up.....
one last little note.
CA is one of the countries biggest defense contractor states. President Obama cuts back in defesnse spending has to be hurting them bad there now.
I would go thru it. Considering every pilot in the military today goes thru it. Considering the the Corp of VMI goes thru it. Considering that I have gone thru unmasked tear gas training. Considering I have done a escape and a evasion course.
I mean one time...not a daily activity. But yes, having seen the tech on TV.....yes, no biggie.
Let us consider how Castro treated the 1180 Bay of Pigs prisoners. They were a para military force like AlQeada is today.
The last one was release in 1982, 25 years after being taken on the beaches of Cuba. Most (all but 8) were released in 1962.
During there captivity in Cuba, they were presented enmass to the Cuban people in Havana.....a violation of Geneva Conventions to show prisoners to the public.
They were interrogated with weapons present (e.g. for execution). A modest from of torture.
All were sentenced in a mass trial on April 7.1062. No individual trials.
Castro offers to release them for 500 bulldozers, eventually some were releases for food and medical supplies ($53m).
Castro, himself conducts interrogation of some of them on Cuban TV. Then announces then publicaly on TV none of them will be executed. But 5 were. 9 died of unusual circumstances.
Castro knew of the coming invasion, had arrested some 100,000+ political prisoner the day prior. How many actually connection to the invasion. Who knows?
Two American military advisors to the invasion force were executed. (Wiki)
9 Prisoner died (asxphiscation)in a trunk being transferred to prison.(wiki)
14 prisoner were charged with various crimes of torture, murder and other crimes against Cuba. 4 were executed. 15 given 30 years sentences.(wiki)
He got one warning from the Clinton Administration on bin Laden. Agreed it was a full file on bin Laden and his activities. But anything specific to the 9/11 attacks? Anything actionable? What other intell specific to 9/11 did he get, Desmond?
The word on the street is that President Obama has begun to have little side talk with Joe Biden on some of his comments.
Hey what do you expect when the VP refuse to do the second oath of office (just in case) cermony? Joe should ask for one of those Obama teleprompters....heck he has only 80 of them....one for Joe....one for Hillary...one for Gates.....one for CIA director ...one for H. Reid......one for Nancy Polosi.....
then wire them together at the White House.....President Obama staff/writers/foreign policy makers can be writing words for them all.......
Stress, change in the economy is occurring. President Obama is getting all his economic proposal passes.
What the DEMs and President Obama are finding is that on the issues of foreign policy, the Iran issue, the North Korean issue, GITMO, and terrorism....the REPs had a lot of it right OR the best that could be done.
Most DEMs leaders are both practical people and do love the country, they are sitting in DC....saying hey we are in power, the fastest way for us to lose power is a successful attack on the US.
From GWB they got a working homeland security, a national intelligence service, NSA wire taps, and 7 years of successful defense of the country.
Ever hear the old saying.....don't change a good thing?
Ever see a rain bow? Sure you have. Any country own it? Nope not a one. You want peace, Dude.....think about rainbows. Nation states act on thier own interests. They conflict with each other. Some can do it in a nice way....thru talk and negotiation to end the conflict....others when a serious threat to thier National Security exists....use military force and operations.
You will get more real peace in thinking about rain bows....than in trying to get national states to be peaceful with each other.jmo
If they (the GITMO Detainees) represented a legal formed government, then they would be under a legal definition, a member of a government military forces.
But the GITMO detainees are para military forces of AlQeada. AlQeada is NOT a foreign government that any nation in the world has officially recognized.
Hence as para military forces of a non signature party of the Geneva Convention....they are not obligated the same rights as a prisoner of war of a nation state.
Why is so hard to understand about that?
We are not about to give AlQeada the same status as a government, or the same rights as one.
Why?
Well look at what is happening today in Pakistan for example. Say a AlQeada force took control of a Pakistani village, that recognition of them as a legal government organization, means that the village would be legally under what ever law that AlQeada placed over them.
Let us just knock down all the borders then. Have one big happy family...oh countries like Iran, North Korea will want nucs. Countries like Venezula will still export drugs.
It is a nice dream Dude.....but with 204 countries each with a national interest(s), many that conflict with nieghboring countries interest(s)....the reality that it could ever come to being achieve is pretty minute.
But nice to see the old global socialism view are finally being expressed by you. At least you have gotten honest with them to us.
Barack Obama is saying to close GITMO, he will take many of the 245 remaining prisoners to FED High Security Prisons inside the US. He site that no one has ever escaped from a US High Security Prison. So their presence in the US is not a security threat.
But
Of the 4 that recently planned to attack the NYC Jewish Centers, 3 were reconverts to Islam AND were recent releases from FER prisons for a variety of charges. By the way, one of those attacks was a Jewish school...
So?
We can place 245 harden terrorist with radicial Islamic ideology into our FED prison system. At a cost of $165,000 per man per year in a FED High Security Prison and the $80m GITMO close down cost. How long would the tax payers of the US being paying for this? Who knows? 5, 10, 15, 20 years or more for many of them.
Here if they are mixed with the regular prison population, they will be able to make converts to Islam that like the 3 just arrested.....will want to Jahid against America. If you keep them separate for a significant length of time from the general population. That has been ruled in the past to be harsh punishment by the US Courts (I am pretty sure).
CA is about to sell the prison island Alcratras in San Franisco Bay....home district of Nancy Polosi.....hmmmmmmmmm.... maybe Nancy would like to give them a home? Likely not.....some marshs around the island well....and some of those CA Marsh Mice likely live there as well. Sorry GITMO detainees.....you lose to the CA Marsh Mouse.:-)
I think that there are degrees in this....one will never pure socialism nor will get pure capitallism. The question is where is the line....that balances a individual's needs, rights and abilities to the needs, governance, and opportunities of a group, society or country.
Gentlepaws is right, the US Social Security System is a form of socialism that was enacts in the post depression area. Gentlepaws is also wrong, thinking that any one man can think for an entire people or country (ala Stalin's attempt for Russia) in a pure socialist society cannot be done.
One can have a socialist state with many weapons and alot of violence, Gentlepaws. Good example...post WWI Russia. They had a internal civil war using the weapons from the great war there. Another? China post WWII. Violence and repression in both were the norm of the day to install socialism into the country.
Some very conservative REP today are calling the Obama Democractic party...the Socialist Democratic Party. How fair and accurate that is...is hard to say....but surely there is a leaning to a centrist position in the country today. Whether the pendellum has swung to the far left and socialism...again hard to say.
2010 mid terms.....will be a good example if such has occurred... If President Obama has shirt tails to bring more liberals into Congress I would say yes. But the Liberals that presently in Congress today....are taking a beating with both their ideology and the confidence levels that Americans have in them. jmo
Am presently reading one of those historical novels. Title "Give Me My Legions Back" by Harry Turtlelove.
Interesting read about the Roman Empire, a time 100 year after Cesaer's death. Rome is still trying to civilized the Germans. The historical fact of the book is this.....that Rome was trying to do this....and it did lead to a epic battle between 3 Rome Legions (20,000) and the Germans in the region.
The Germans got the best of this battle in a big way.
That single battle kept Germany and the Germans free from Rome rule, being part of the Roman empire, paying annual taxes to Rome, supplying men and horse to the Rome military machine, and keeping their land and women from Rome occupation. In other words....kept the Germans free.
As I read this book and thought of Dude's post here....I realized that our Dude is nothing like the Germans of old. He has lost his desire for a home country and wants to be part of the 'larger world order' (e.g the Rome Empire).
There were Germans back then that wanted such as well. They wanted to be ruled by Rome....for all that Rome could offer....gold coins, buildings, wine, ampitheatres, games. Basically Rome's corrupting influences.
They were considered traitors by most Germans. They were like the Tories of our American revolution...doing anything to see a foreign power rule in Germany.
Maybe our Dude has lost his Tuetonic heritage? That old desire of battle lust with a broad sword, shield and spear. That old find a cause for homeland and defend till death.
Well I agreeing losing some of that is most admirable. But in modern day world.....were 1000s can be taken by a WMD in a single blow, where countries will cheat in arms reduction agreements, where there is a growing number of countries with nuclear abilities.....were one had problems like Pakistan, Israel/Gaza, Somolia, Sudan...on and on....
Dude's would be demilitarization of the United States is not going to lead to a safer or more secure world. Just really means that the United States has less resources to keep what little safety and security there is from foreign aggression.
Barack Obama has even said....that nucs will still be around after his life ends. BArack Obama will fight wars he cosiders to be smart and intelligent that are improtant to the safety and security of the United States and its allies. Afghanistan is a example.
LOL.......ever see Spaceballs? The spoof on Space Wars? Remind you of anything read here at CS? I love that skit on the superfastlightspeed but dont't push the button to take you into superhyperlightspeed....
Dude is has been pushing the superhyberlightspeed button one to many times.......
When he finds that it does a instant slow down.......his darth vader helmet will impact the computer screen like a cannon shot....
By the way.....Dude's thread's message is not what Barack Obama stands for.
Barack Obama said in 2002 anti war rally message. He is against foolish and rash wars.....not sure I have seen a conflict with some foolish things in it.....but that is what he said consistantly since 2002 and thru the primaries and fall election.
But he is not against all wars.
Dude would have us think that with Barack Obama in office.....peace is at hand around the globe. It simply is not.
Russia builds a stealthy fighter bomber with Brazil. Iran launches a new missile. China has a fleet of new super quiet subs. Pakistan just opened two more nuclear material production sites. North Korea is getting ready to test another nuc. India is watching the event in Paksitan with growing concern.
Dude is dreaming in the far left smoke filled classic style....
Amazing is it not......those terrorist guys would not just give up when they hear a great orator like Obama...someone to change their entire life's mission and dedicated purpose from the destruction of Israel and any that would support her....with some kind words.
Barack Obama needs to get a few of his rocks ready to throw.
Iran just launched a solid propellant missile with a range of 1200 miles. Far enough to touch 2/3 of Europe.
Now in military thinking......why would a country make a missile with a range of 1200 miles only to make it a conventional missile (e.g. non nuclear explosives) WHEN all of its threats within the range of the missile are nuclear.
Basically its would mean a non nuclear Iran, if it used this non nuclear missile against Isreal, Europe or the US, would be hitting a nuclear hornet's nest with a small stick.
So the military logic that Iran is going to stay non nuclear is simply missing.
Interesting that Iran decides to first test this missile at the same time as the Netanyaho/Obama talks. If one saw the together end of the talks media Q & A....Obama could not even look Netenyaho in the eye as he did the smiles.....and said they were productive talks.
My bet is President Obama found his earlier words at AIPC...."we will defend Isreal with the full might of the United States Military"....coming back to haunt.
Will likely will be NMFBLL....the way we are going. They will take the best of both sports merge them into one. Then dissolve both the NFL and MBL because they failed to get a stimulus package soon enough.
CA voted no on the tax increases. Initial layoffs in CA are to be 5000 state workers and several 10,000 teachers.
I just saw the AP interactive map of the US called the The Economic Stress Map...it plots a combination of mortage default,foreclosures, unemployment is on a 5 points scale.
Anways most of the country (90%) I would say is in 1 or 2 catagory...light to mild recession stress. Wests Coast....OR, WA NA and CA though....all in moderate to high stress 3 to 4 level. Some areas of CA were in 5 level stress. CA was about 50% stressed at level 3 or better.
Desmond, we don't hate him. That is pretty powerful word to use. We ust try to enjoy the moment with him in office, thinking of the many future moments without him in office.
ttom500 Forum Posts (10,523)
I guess I have to multiple fake net identities to vote all 10 choices here. Call ACORN....they have a few ready made ones for me to use.
RE: Obama Rocks! Today! the most serious attempt against more wars!
How long in time do you think that 'actual waterboarding' session takes? 15 minutes? 10 minutes? 5 minutes? try less than 2 minutes time.Yes, less than 2 minutes.
Why that?
Very few people can hold their breath for longer than 2 minutes underwater. None of them drowned....so we know the sessiona were less than 2 minutes in time.
They lean head and body back on the board. They fill the nasal cavity with water. The Dr. starts the clock. They then lower the head and shoulders into the water....emersing the person. When a minute or a little more it time is up...the DR signal and end....they raise the person up. The nasal cavity empties and they can breath again. Simulated drowning. But that is all.
That is why they needed to waterboard these guys so many time to get the intell from them. Once they learned it would not kill them or give serious injure to them..... They became resistant to it.
So are you asking me again if I would or could take a a couple of minutes discomfort or distress by being waterboarded? Like this? Are you kidding?
Ever do 20 minute in the front lean and rest with a 70 pound pack, balancing your weapon on the tops of your hands on a sharp stone gravel parking lot? LOL...........standard basic training discpline here.....Dude. Our soldiers going thru basic get harsher treatment than what these three got.
But proud of it? No. Very happy today that it helped to stop several terrorist attacks on the US. Save 1000s of lives.
Lastly Dude. Ever go thru a confidence course? You know where a person stand on a platform....then fall backwards into the arms of fellow employees? For me, knowing that those doing my waterboarding....that they were US citizens... it would be just like that.....just confidence building in fellow Americans committed to the same goals and prinicples that I am.
As I said...no biggie.