Gaza,Hamas,Bin-Laden&all the fools sailed away.... (49)
u2KittyClose to the ocean, South Denmark Denmark23 Threads 974 PostsSweden boycots Israel:
http://www.jpost.com/International/Article.aspx?id=177545
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BebeII: If Hamas would stop launching rockets from Gaza (which was relinquished by the Israeli's 5 years ago)then they wouldn't suffer attacks.
What to say on your argument?
HAMAS would newer launch rockets on Israeli's if they have not assassinated Yitzak Rabin and his successful peace initiative together with him?
Very possible .
HAMAS come later and could be said that his now days influence in Palestinian nation is created by Israeli's .
There are , in Israel, very strong lobby's in whose interest is to keep situation as it is.
They live from it.
Peace had newer fair chance in Israel and first man who offered him was killed, not by Al Fatah, not by MAMAS, not by HEZBOLLAH.
What to think about this?
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emannigol: How about duties like Geneva convention and other international laws?
And?------ This thread is Archived ------
to steevyv
my friend what do u think of my diving skills??
my friend what do u think of my diving skills??
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murny: cont'd
The Muslims are said to say they want all Jews wiped out, so they are considered a threat.
My question is, who is doing the shooting, and abusing, and attacking, and brutalizing? Who is ACTUALLY doing it? Not, who MIGHT do it, or who THREATENS to do it?
And though I in no way advocate for the Muslims' supposed belief to wipe out the Jews, I am beginning to understand WHY they might be a little mad....
So people from like FORTY TWO different nations take supplies to the people who are kind of well, STARVING and SICK, to relieve them, and they are TERRORISTS? I would say that a large portion of the world agrees there is a need, and that an injustice is being done, despite who did what prior to this situation.
From my other posts on this site, one can see I would rather discuss science and spirituality. So, I can only comment on what I see at face value.
It is really hard for me to understand some people's views, given the events that have taken place.
Again, your buying into the lie that the Palestinians are starving and sick.The Muslims are said to say they want all Jews wiped out, so they are considered a threat.
My question is, who is doing the shooting, and abusing, and attacking, and brutalizing? Who is ACTUALLY doing it? Not, who MIGHT do it, or who THREATENS to do it?
And though I in no way advocate for the Muslims' supposed belief to wipe out the Jews, I am beginning to understand WHY they might be a little mad....
So people from like FORTY TWO different nations take supplies to the people who are kind of well, STARVING and SICK, to relieve them, and they are TERRORISTS? I would say that a large portion of the world agrees there is a need, and that an injustice is being done, despite who did what prior to this situation.
From my other posts on this site, one can see I would rather discuss science and spirituality. So, I can only comment on what I see at face value.
It is really hard for me to understand some people's views, given the events that have taken place.
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Steevyv: What to say on your argument?
HAMAS would newer launch rockets on Israeli's if they have not assassinated Yitzak Rabin and his successful peace initiative together with him?
Very possible .
HAMAS come later and could be said that his now days influence in Palestinian nation is created by Israeli's .
There are , in Israel, very strong lobby's in whose interest is to keep situation as it is.
They live from it.
Peace had newer fair chance in Israel and first man who offered him was killed, not by Al Fatah, not by MAMAS, not by HEZBOLLAH.
What to think about this?
The assassination of Rabin is the cause of Hamas launching rockets 10 years later? Get real.HAMAS would newer launch rockets on Israeli's if they have not assassinated Yitzak Rabin and his successful peace initiative together with him?
Very possible .
HAMAS come later and could be said that his now days influence in Palestinian nation is created by Israeli's .
There are , in Israel, very strong lobby's in whose interest is to keep situation as it is.
They live from it.
Peace had newer fair chance in Israel and first man who offered him was killed, not by Al Fatah, not by MAMAS, not by HEZBOLLAH.
What to think about this?
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murny: I'm a little confused
There are these people called Palestinians living on this piece of land, for a little while, like 2,000 years.
Along come some people called Israelis, who are given a piece of this land, by the West.
These Israelis, over the years, take houses and more and more land from the Palestinians.
The Palestinians take offense at having more and more of their land and houses taken or destroyed, and, well, stick up for themselves.
THAT is a terrorist????
So the upset Israelis now open fire with sophisticated weapons, killing many civilians. (Last January, less than 2 dozen Israelis were killed in the "conflict", but about 1300 Palestinians died, almost NINETY PERCENT civilians.) They put the remaining Palestinians in a fenced area, regularly enter and fire on the unarmed people inside, open their sewers into the Palestinians water supply, plow their farms and orchards under, cut off medical supplies, cut off food, etc etc, all in the name of defense.
THAT is defending yourself???? Against what? Some outdated rockets fired by people who want out of a blockade, who want their land and homes back?
I could use the same line of thought when considering my homeland, the US. All this running around, declaring war on someone who MIGHT want to, MIGHT be PLANNING to, or has weapons they MIGHT use. Who is doing the attacking? Who is over in other countries wreaking havoc? Who is the only country to ever use a nuclear bomb on another, who actually followed through?
I am American-born, and deeply grieved by my government's actions in the world against my fellow humans, all based on a huge MAYBE. I am beginning to question any legitimacy at all to their actions.
Iran, despite complying with Western demands to swap their uranium, despite signing the non-proliferation treaty and abiding by it, in fact, for a while holding themselves to higher standards, is a nuclear threat? When was the last time they attacked another country? Supposedly they THREATENED to wipe Israel off the map (funny, the translation seems to indicate that ZIONISM has to go, not that a country is to be wiped out), but their track record does not show them as an aggressor. Why can the US and Israel, who has not signed the treaty and refuses to let anyone in to monitor their activities, be left alone, despite their record of warfare and aggression, but Iran, who is technologically pretty archaic regarding nuclear matter, and who states they want nuclear power and medical isotopes to treat cancer, (their right, since they signed the treaty) is declared to be hiding something? I'm confused.
There are these people called Palestinians living on this piece of land, for a little while, like 2,000 years.
Along come some people called Israelis, who are given a piece of this land, by the West.
These Israelis, over the years, take houses and more and more land from the Palestinians.
The Palestinians take offense at having more and more of their land and houses taken or destroyed, and, well, stick up for themselves.
THAT is a terrorist????
So the upset Israelis now open fire with sophisticated weapons, killing many civilians. (Last January, less than 2 dozen Israelis were killed in the "conflict", but about 1300 Palestinians died, almost NINETY PERCENT civilians.) They put the remaining Palestinians in a fenced area, regularly enter and fire on the unarmed people inside, open their sewers into the Palestinians water supply, plow their farms and orchards under, cut off medical supplies, cut off food, etc etc, all in the name of defense.
THAT is defending yourself???? Against what? Some outdated rockets fired by people who want out of a blockade, who want their land and homes back?
I could use the same line of thought when considering my homeland, the US. All this running around, declaring war on someone who MIGHT want to, MIGHT be PLANNING to, or has weapons they MIGHT use. Who is doing the attacking? Who is over in other countries wreaking havoc? Who is the only country to ever use a nuclear bomb on another, who actually followed through?
I am American-born, and deeply grieved by my government's actions in the world against my fellow humans, all based on a huge MAYBE. I am beginning to question any legitimacy at all to their actions.
Iran, despite complying with Western demands to swap their uranium, despite signing the non-proliferation treaty and abiding by it, in fact, for a while holding themselves to higher standards, is a nuclear threat? When was the last time they attacked another country? Supposedly they THREATENED to wipe Israel off the map (funny, the translation seems to indicate that ZIONISM has to go, not that a country is to be wiped out), but their track record does not show them as an aggressor. Why can the US and Israel, who has not signed the treaty and refuses to let anyone in to monitor their activities, be left alone, despite their record of warfare and aggression, but Iran, who is technologically pretty archaic regarding nuclear matter, and who states they want nuclear power and medical isotopes to treat cancer, (their right, since they signed the treaty) is declared to be hiding something? I'm confused.
Do please educate yourself: yaacovlozowick.com------ This thread is Archived ------
u2Kitty: NOTE:
My 3 previous posts are only meant as an example to show how it looks when thing are taken out of a context!!
I am not trying to state anything against jews - I just don`t like the way OP presents his views!!
Kitty
All religious texts can be taken out of context. The question is where are the islamic imams who preach against what Bin Laden and co. are saying? There is no centralized authority in islam, unlike christianity, which can give the final word. This allows muslims like Bin Laden to preach what the koran says without repercussion.My 3 previous posts are only meant as an example to show how it looks when thing are taken out of a context!!
I am not trying to state anything against jews - I just don`t like the way OP presents his views!!
Kitty
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BebeII: Do please educate yourself: yaacovlozowick.com
I guess we are getting our info from different sources, eh? Let me guess - you listen to the mainstream media.....
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BebeII: Again, your buying into the lie that the Palestinians are starving and sick.
Just like the Israeli Human Rights Activists protesting in Israel and the Jews in America and elsewhere that are speaking up are, I suppose.
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magna1: Hmmm,-not sure about you´re answer...."Appeal to fear"????Yes,-I do fear alot...don´t you.....Replacing a modern way of thinking with an medieval likewise...Frankly...do you really want that...,just to beat yourself on the chest,and call yourself liberal...A parallel society....a medieval with a high-tech....
Is violence justifiable with fear of composed consequences?
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BebeII: And?
IS violation of international laws and conventions justifiable with excuse of protecting citizens?
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seebird: http://www.ifamericansknew.org/
yep....they sure have a mighty ally ... no matter what they do
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study islam a bit deeper before commenting on it....dont mind me sir..thanx
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Steevyv: Simply said: shameless !HAMAS is not killing Palestinians but Israel !
Only in last massacre Israel has killed over 1.300 civilians in Gaza ghetto.
This lasted for 60 years , so it stated long time before that HAMAS was established. All you have said and wrote on this treats here is nothing else but fascistic propaganda based on famous Dr.Goebels words that " hundred times repeated lie becomes true".
Fascistic????Hmmm..in contrary...I love,praise,cherish the Western way of democracy...and looking in the rear-view mirror,-this has to be the best way thing,-in comparison of all -isms the West/world gone thru...Theocracy,feodalism,imperialism,fascism,communism aso...And please....calling someone unknown fascist is simple,cheap thing to do...But hey,-it´s a free world,-so you´re allowed to....Good day!!Only in last massacre Israel has killed over 1.300 civilians in Gaza ghetto.
This lasted for 60 years , so it stated long time before that HAMAS was established. All you have said and wrote on this treats here is nothing else but fascistic propaganda based on famous Dr.Goebels words that " hundred times repeated lie becomes true".
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sarhadi: study islam a bit deeper before commenting on it....dont mind me sir..thanx
So I do...but this threads was not about Islam,-secular or spiritual,-rather questioning the some articles in the constitution of Hamas.....And I´m sure you don´t mind people using a textual,exegetic,critical method to read and understand Quran&Hadith....------ This thread is Archived ------
From Haretz
* Diplomacy & Defense
* Published 15:55 06.06.10
* Latest update 15:55 06.06.10
Israel rejects UN proposal for joint Gaza flotilla probe with U.S. and Turkey
Prime Minister Netanyahu tells Ban Ki-moon: Investigation of the facts must be carried out responsibly and objectively.
By Barak Ravid
Israel rejected on Sunday a proposal by United Nations Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon for an international investigation into its deadly raid on a Gaza-bound aid ship and said it had the right to launch its own inquiry.
"We are rejecting an international commission. We are discussing with the Obama administration a way in which our inquiry will take place," Michael Oren, Israel's ambassador to Washington, said on the U.S. TV program "Fox News Sunday".
Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan
The UN chief had suggested establishing a panel that would be headed by formerNew Zealand prime minister Geoffrey Palmer and include representatives from Turkey, Israel and the United States, an Israeli official said earlier in Jerusalem.
Netanyahu discussed the proposal for a multinational panel with Ban in a telephone call on Saturday but told cabinet ministers from his right-wing Likud party on Sunday that Israel was exploring other options, political sources said.
"I told that the investigation of the facts must be carried out responsibly and objectively," Netanyahu told ministers. "We need to consider the issue carefully and level-headedly, while maintaining Israel's national interests as well as those of the Israel Defense Forces."
The prime minister said he told Ban that some of the passengers aboard the stormed the Mavi Marmara were members of an extremist terror-backing Turkish organization. He stressed that any investigation into the event should determine who organized these extremists, who funded them and supplied them with equipment, and how they ended up on the ship.
Netanyahu also discussed the Israeli blockade on Gaza, saying that discussions surrounding the easing of the blockade had begun before the flotilla ever set sail.
"Our desire is to facilitate the transfer of civilian and humanitarian goods to the civilian population, while preventing the transfer of weapons and warfare materials." He added that "the provocative flotilla will not stop us from discussing this, and we are considering proposals on the topic made by friendly nations."
The prime minister further told the cabinet that he spoke with U.S. Vice President Joe Biden over the weekend as well as the prime ministers of Greece and Bulgaria.
Nine Turks were killed on Monday in the Israeli commando raid on the Mavi Marmara, part of a six-vessel convoy that set out to challenge an Israeli-led blockade.
Israel has said its troops used lethal force in self-defense after they were set upon by pro-Palestinian activists wielding clubs and knives.
Israeli leaders have spoken publicly about setting up an internal investigation with foreign observers into the interception of the Turkish-flagged ship off the coast of Gaza, an enclave run by Hamas Islamists who oppose Western-backed Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas's peace efforts with Israel.
"Israel is a democratic nation. Israel has the ability and the right to investigate itself, not to be investigated by any international board," Oren said.
* Diplomacy & Defense
* Published 15:55 06.06.10
* Latest update 15:55 06.06.10
Israel rejects UN proposal for joint Gaza flotilla probe with U.S. and Turkey
Prime Minister Netanyahu tells Ban Ki-moon: Investigation of the facts must be carried out responsibly and objectively.
By Barak Ravid
Israel rejected on Sunday a proposal by United Nations Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon for an international investigation into its deadly raid on a Gaza-bound aid ship and said it had the right to launch its own inquiry.
"We are rejecting an international commission. We are discussing with the Obama administration a way in which our inquiry will take place," Michael Oren, Israel's ambassador to Washington, said on the U.S. TV program "Fox News Sunday".
Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan
The UN chief had suggested establishing a panel that would be headed by formerNew Zealand prime minister Geoffrey Palmer and include representatives from Turkey, Israel and the United States, an Israeli official said earlier in Jerusalem.
Netanyahu discussed the proposal for a multinational panel with Ban in a telephone call on Saturday but told cabinet ministers from his right-wing Likud party on Sunday that Israel was exploring other options, political sources said.
"I told that the investigation of the facts must be carried out responsibly and objectively," Netanyahu told ministers. "We need to consider the issue carefully and level-headedly, while maintaining Israel's national interests as well as those of the Israel Defense Forces."
The prime minister said he told Ban that some of the passengers aboard the stormed the Mavi Marmara were members of an extremist terror-backing Turkish organization. He stressed that any investigation into the event should determine who organized these extremists, who funded them and supplied them with equipment, and how they ended up on the ship.
Netanyahu also discussed the Israeli blockade on Gaza, saying that discussions surrounding the easing of the blockade had begun before the flotilla ever set sail.
"Our desire is to facilitate the transfer of civilian and humanitarian goods to the civilian population, while preventing the transfer of weapons and warfare materials." He added that "the provocative flotilla will not stop us from discussing this, and we are considering proposals on the topic made by friendly nations."
The prime minister further told the cabinet that he spoke with U.S. Vice President Joe Biden over the weekend as well as the prime ministers of Greece and Bulgaria.
Nine Turks were killed on Monday in the Israeli commando raid on the Mavi Marmara, part of a six-vessel convoy that set out to challenge an Israeli-led blockade.
Israel has said its troops used lethal force in self-defense after they were set upon by pro-Palestinian activists wielding clubs and knives.
Israeli leaders have spoken publicly about setting up an internal investigation with foreign observers into the interception of the Turkish-flagged ship off the coast of Gaza, an enclave run by Hamas Islamists who oppose Western-backed Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas's peace efforts with Israel.
"Israel is a democratic nation. Israel has the ability and the right to investigate itself, not to be investigated by any international board," Oren said.
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Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu, speaking on CNN, said Ankara would insist on an independent commission and suggested that Israel's rejection of an international inquiry showed it wanted to cover up the facts of the raid.
"We want to know the facts. If Israel rejects this, it means it is also another proof of their guilt. They are not self-confident to face the facts," he said.
Turkey's relations with Israel, once a close ally, have soured badly since the deadly raid.
Israel's navy boarded another ship carrying aid and pro-Palestinian activists to Gaza on Saturday. Its interception of the Irish-owned MV Rachel Corrie ended without violence following diplomatic efforts to avoid bloodshed.
"I want to pay tribute to the crew of the Rachel Corrie for demonstrating in no uncertain terms their peaceful intentions," Irish Foreign Minister Micheal Martin told Irish public radio RTE. "We of course communicated that relentlessly to the Israeli authorities."
An Israeli official said Israel wanted to establish whether the Turkish government had sponsored the Mavi Marmara, where the strength of the resistance to the boarding party appeared to have caught the Israeli military off guard. Israel has said seven of its troops were wounded.
"We want to know the facts. If Israel rejects this, it means it is also another proof of their guilt. They are not self-confident to face the facts," he said.
Turkey's relations with Israel, once a close ally, have soured badly since the deadly raid.
Israel's navy boarded another ship carrying aid and pro-Palestinian activists to Gaza on Saturday. Its interception of the Irish-owned MV Rachel Corrie ended without violence following diplomatic efforts to avoid bloodshed.
"I want to pay tribute to the crew of the Rachel Corrie for demonstrating in no uncertain terms their peaceful intentions," Irish Foreign Minister Micheal Martin told Irish public radio RTE. "We of course communicated that relentlessly to the Israeli authorities."
An Israeli official said Israel wanted to establish whether the Turkish government had sponsored the Mavi Marmara, where the strength of the resistance to the boarding party appeared to have caught the Israeli military off guard. Israel has said seven of its troops were wounded.
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BebeII: The assassination of Rabin is the cause of Hamas launching rockets 10 years later? Get real.
Main article: Assassination of Yitzhak Rabin
The monument marking the site of the assassination: Ibn Gabirol Street between the Tel Aviv City Hall and Gan Ha'ir
The grave of Yitzhak (right) and Leah Rabin (left) on Mount Herzl
On 4 November 1995 (11th of Heshvan on the Hebrew Calendar) Prime Minister Rabin was assassinated by Yigal Amir, a radical right-wing Orthodox Jew who opposed the signing of the Oslo Accords and believed he was saving the country from a dire fate. The shooting took place in the evening as Rabin was leaving a mass rally in Tel Aviv in support of the Oslo process. Rabin was rushed to the nearby Ichilov Hospital, where he died on the operating table of blood loss and a punctured lung within 40 minutes. Amir was immediately seized by Rabin's bodyguards. He was later tried, found guilty, and sentenced to life imprisonment. After an emergency cabinet meeting, Israel's foreign minister, Shimon Peres was appointed as acting Israeli prime minister.
The assassination of Rabin came as a great shock to the Israeli public and much of the rest of the world. Hundreds of thousands of Israelis thronged the square where Rabin was assassinated to mourn his death. Young people, in particular, turned out in large numbers, lighting memorial candles and singing peace songs. Rabin's funeral was attended by many world leaders, among them U.S. president Bill Clinton, Egyptian president Hosni Mubarak and King Hussein of Jordan. Bill Clinton delivered a eulogy whose final words were in Hebrew—"Shalom, Haver" (Hebrew: ???? ????, lit. Goodbye, Friend).
The square where he was assassinated, Kikar Malkhei Yisrael (Kings of Israel Square), was renamed Rabin Square. Many other streets and public institutions in Israel have also subsequently been named after him. After his assassination, Rabin was hailed as a national symbol and came to embody the Israeli peace camp ethos, despite his military career and hawkish views earlier in life. He is buried on Mount Herzl. In November 2000, his wife Leah died and was buried alongside him.
As with many political assassinations, there is much debate regarding the background of Rabin's assassination. There are a number of conspiracy theories related to the assassination of Rabin.
...........................
Think what you want.
It was not " causus beli " but it ruined peace process and helped HAMAS to become what he is now, and that's real.
But, what have those guys from convoy with HAMAS and shelling of Israeli's settlements? What they have with terrorists and terrorism? Where are rockets and other weapon for terrorists that were supposed to be on vessels?
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