Non-Smokers...would you date a smoker? (101)
rytcharlie: but smoking for me indicates a lack of pride - if pride is to be understood as self-respect ..
This philosophy claims that pride is self-destructing, yes, and I agree with that. My knowledge of English isn’t enough though to make me able and explain the logic in what I mentioned in an earlier post.
For me there’s difference between self-respect and pride. Self-respect means first and foremost self-discipline – there’re some things you wouldn’t do because of principles you voluntarily confided your life to. Pride is a groundless belief that you are better than the rest.
(There are 2 different words in Russian (“gordost’ ” and “gordynja”) that translate to English with the same word “pride”. I’m speaking about “gordynja”.)
The virtue of Pride can best be described by the term: “moral ambitiousness.” It means that one must earn the right to hold oneself as one’s own highest value by achieving one’s own moral perfection—which one achieves by never accepting any code of irrational virtues impossible to practice and by never failing to practice the virtues one knows to be rational—by never accepting an unearned guilt and never earning any, or, if one has earned it, never leaving it uncorrected—by never resigning oneself passively to any flaws in one’s character—by never placing any concern, wish, fear or mood of the moment above the reality of one’s own self-esteem. And, above all, it means one’s rejection of the role of a sacrificial animal, the rejection of any doctrine that preaches self-immolation as a moral virtue or duty.
The Virtue of Selfishness “The Objectivist Ethics,”
The Virtue of Selfishness “The Objectivist Ethics,”
rytcharlie: but smoking for me indicates a lack of pride - if pride is to be understood as self-respect ..
I have pride and self respect as I'm sure the majority of smokers do. I think it's all a mixture of addiction at an early and naive age (me), lack of willpower with some people, habitual and some people maybe most people actually enjoying smoking and never even wanting to give up! I don't honestly think that those people lack pride tbh. There's also the fact that until only a few years ago, the govt's were doing theyre best to make cigarettes as addictive as possible!
Tulefel: This philosophy claims that pride is self-destructing, yes, and I agree with that. My knowledge of English isn’t enough though to make me able and explain the logic in what I mentioned in an earlier post.
For me there’s difference between self-respect and pride. Self-respect means first and foremost self-discipline – there’re some things you wouldn’t do because of principles you voluntarily confided your life to. Pride is a groundless belief that you are better than the rest.
(There are 2 different words in Russian (“gordost’ ” and “gordynja”) that translate to English with the same word “pride”. I’m speaking about “gordynja”.)
For me there’s difference between self-respect and pride. Self-respect means first and foremost self-discipline – there’re some things you wouldn’t do because of principles you voluntarily confided your life to. Pride is a groundless belief that you are better than the rest.
(There are 2 different words in Russian (“gordost’ ” and “gordynja”) that translate to English with the same word “pride”. I’m speaking about “gordynja”.)
I can see your point but don't agree with you.
In order to have self respect you do need a measure of pride, the two go hand in hand. A certain amount of pride is necessary if you are to stand up for yourself. It is also only natural to feel pride and satisfaction in one's own achievements, e.g. an artist unveiling a new piece of art, or a sportsman winning a competition etc.
It's when you let your pride blind you to your own shortcomings and being able to see when you're wrong, that pride becomes self destructive.
In my view it's EXCESSIVE pride that is destructive, but 'normal' pride is ok, and indeed necessary in life.
rytcharlie: I think it's a bit like when you split up with someone and you go to the bars you used to go to together .. feels weird like there is just too much missing and at first it seems really difficult, but when you go a time or two, it's ok - you adjust to a new normality - and a much better one in the case of tobacco addiction ... I'm not going to agree that it's difficult to give up tobacco tho .. I think it's the addiction itself saying it's difficult to lose cos it wants to kill you ..
I agree with all the thoughts and comments on the pure negativity of smoking.I can quit the habit,even have quit numerous times,for many months,years,and weeks,but as a self medication for stress and anxiety,I often fall prey to it again at a weak moment.The addiction doesn't go away,it stays for life once started
tomboygirl: ,I often fall prey to it again at a weak moment.The addiction doesn't go away,it stays for life once started
Good girl...Stay with the dark side...
wulfen: I can see your point but don't agree with you.
In order to have self respect you do need a measure of pride, the two go hand in hand. A certain amount of pride is necessary if you are to stand up for yourself. It is also only natural to feel pride and satisfaction in one's own achievements, e.g. an artist unveiling a new piece of art, or a sportsman winning a competition etc.
It's when you let your pride blind you to your own shortcomings and being able to see when you're wrong, that pride becomes self destructive.
In my view it's EXCESSIVE pride that is destructive, but 'normal' pride is ok, and indeed necessary in life.
In order to have self respect you do need a measure of pride, the two go hand in hand. A certain amount of pride is necessary if you are to stand up for yourself. It is also only natural to feel pride and satisfaction in one's own achievements, e.g. an artist unveiling a new piece of art, or a sportsman winning a competition etc.
It's when you let your pride blind you to your own shortcomings and being able to see when you're wrong, that pride becomes self destructive.
In my view it's EXCESSIVE pride that is destructive, but 'normal' pride is ok, and indeed necessary in life.
Well… it’s ok not to agree with me, after all I never claimed that I’m the highest instance on matters and things.
As to pride and a sound amount of it… we are on very thin ice here as we’ve come to qualitative variables and it’d be difficult to carry out discussion without some firm definitions of the operative terms (which I, after a day of work without lunch – wanted to finish earlier; trip to the sea – been struck by jelly-fish, again; strawberries with ice-cream and then a couple of glasses of antioxidant… really feel very reluctant to make). So with your permission I drop discussion about what pride is and how much is not too much.
But I’d like to say few words about competition (it’s off topic, I know): I’ve notice that people compete with other people, and there’re cases when men compete with women (Jezeez Chrysler!), and when having won, are very proud of the fact.
As I see the matter, you compete only with yourself. All other kind of competition has no meaning.
Tulefel has spoken.
taff1: ''Pathetic attempt to be cool''??? Pathetic statement more like!! You have no idea what nicotine addiction is all about yet you write something as stupid and uneducated as that?? I'm surprised to be honest.
Have you never met teenagers who will admit they are aware of the health issues of smoking, yet when asked why they still smoke will just shrug and mumble something of the sort 'my friends do it too...'
Back in my teens you would still encounter peer pressure to start smoking back in secondary and high school. I know as I talk from personal experience, have had a few 'friends' taunting me for being 'chicken' or 'still a small kid' for refusing to try smoking back when I was 14 and thereabouts. I admit that at that age peer pressure has a much bigger impact on one's life than it does as we grow older, hence young people are more vulnerable to start smoking because of that; however it doesn't change the fact that what it boils down to in these cases is that it is a 'pathetic attempt to be cool' in one's friends' eyes.
Human nature being what it is, and seeing the great amount of youngsters who still dabble in cigarettes, drugs and binge drinking, I assume that the situation hasn't changed much in the past decade or so.
As for the effects of nicotine addiction, yes I am aware that it is addictive, yet hiding behind that as a reason not to quit smoking is just masking a lack of willpower in oneself. I've met plenty of people who are ex-smokers and who have since quit (admittedly not without difficulties especially in the first few months).
At the end of the day, quitting smoking boils down to that, it's a matter of willpower, just as in many other aspects of life.
I think in life we should all be free to take the choices that face us in the way we see fit - and as long as the choices made are legal and non-detrimental to others around us and we can stand, live and die by those choices, then nobody has the right to criticise what we decide or don't decide is best for us as adults - my only hope is that those choices will not be made out of fear, helplessness, lies and deception ..
Nobody today can be ignorant of the well-documented effects of smoking. And nobody needs telling that smoking kills. Nevertheless, for some reason some people keep smoking. I don't agree with that choice, but I do agree with - and will defend - that person's right to take it ..
vivre la libertà
Nobody today can be ignorant of the well-documented effects of smoking. And nobody needs telling that smoking kills. Nevertheless, for some reason some people keep smoking. I don't agree with that choice, but I do agree with - and will defend - that person's right to take it ..
vivre la libertà
wulfen: Have you never met teenagers who will admit they are aware of the health issues of smoking, yet when asked why they still smoke will just shrug and mumble something of the sort 'my friends do it too...'
Back in my teens you would still encounter peer pressure to start smoking back in secondary and high school. I know as I talk from personal experience, have had a few 'friends' taunting me for being 'chicken' or 'still a small kid' for refusing to try smoking back when I was 14 and thereabouts. I admit that at that age peer pressure has a much bigger impact on one's life than it does as we grow older, hence young people are more vulnerable to start smoking because of that; however it doesn't change the fact that what it boils down to in these cases is that it is a 'pathetic attempt to be cool' in one's friends' eyes.
Human nature being what it is, and seeing the great amount of youngsters who still dabble in cigarettes, drugs and binge drinking, I assume that the situation hasn't changed much in the past decade or so.
As for the effects of nicotine addiction, yes I am aware that it is addictive, yet hiding behind that as a reason not to quit smoking is just masking a lack of willpower in oneself. I've met plenty of people who are ex-smokers and who have since quit (admittedly not without difficulties especially in the first few months).
At the end of the day, quitting smoking boils down to that, it's a matter of willpower, just as in many other aspects of life.
Back in my teens you would still encounter peer pressure to start smoking back in secondary and high school. I know as I talk from personal experience, have had a few 'friends' taunting me for being 'chicken' or 'still a small kid' for refusing to try smoking back when I was 14 and thereabouts. I admit that at that age peer pressure has a much bigger impact on one's life than it does as we grow older, hence young people are more vulnerable to start smoking because of that; however it doesn't change the fact that what it boils down to in these cases is that it is a 'pathetic attempt to be cool' in one's friends' eyes.
Human nature being what it is, and seeing the great amount of youngsters who still dabble in cigarettes, drugs and binge drinking, I assume that the situation hasn't changed much in the past decade or so.
As for the effects of nicotine addiction, yes I am aware that it is addictive, yet hiding behind that as a reason not to quit smoking is just masking a lack of willpower in oneself. I've met plenty of people who are ex-smokers and who have since quit (admittedly not without difficulties especially in the first few months).
At the end of the day, quitting smoking boils down to that, it's a matter of willpower, just as in many other aspects of life.
I agree with you about the youth, and peer pressure at a young age. The one thing that gets me wound up is all this ''lack of self respect, and pride'' issues that so many people keep going on about. It's got nothing at all to do with that. Addiction is addiction full stop!! I regret smoking and I'm trying to quit, but there are many who enjoy it and will never quit because they don't want to. Is that because they have no pride or self respect? Of course not, it's their right to make that choice in life. I have plenty of self pride and the fact that I've been a smoker changes none of that. I can't work out why people don't see and understand this?? All that being said, you do bring some good points to the table in your posts.
taff1: I agree with you about the youth, and peer pressure at a young age. The one thing that gets me wound up is all this ''lack of self respect, and pride'' issues that so many people keep going on about. It's got nothing at all to do with that. Addiction is addiction full stop!! I regret smoking and I'm trying to quit, but there are many who enjoy it and will never quit because they don't want to. Is that because they have no pride or self respect? Of course not, it's their right to make that choice in life. I have plenty of self pride and the fact that I've been a smoker changes none of that. I can't work out why people don't see and understand this?? All that being said, you do bring some good points to the table in your posts.
I think it was me on this thread who first suggested people who needlessly, willfully and voluntarily take carcinogenic substances into their lungs on a daily basis are showing a lack of self respect .. I'm sorry that that, for me, obvious statement winds you up so much, mate. Maybe you could explain why it's wrong .. if you want .. or if you don't want that's cool too ... I don't really give a fig what others do to kill themselves as in the end it's their funeral as far as I can see .. excuse my uncaring attitude but why should anyone care about people who so blatantly refuse to care for themselves ..
to each their own and may peace prevail ...
rytcharlie: I think it was me on this thread who first suggested people who needlessly, willfully and voluntarily take carcinogenic substances into their lungs on a daily basis are showing a lack of self respect .. I'm sorry that that, for me, obvious statement winds you up so much, mate. Maybe you could explain why it's wrong .. if you want .. or if you don't want that's cool too ... I don't really give a fig what others do to kill themselves as in the end it's their funeral as far as I can see .. excuse my uncaring attitude but why should anyone care about people who so blatantly refuse to care for themselves ..
to each their own and may peace prevail ...
to each their own and may peace prevail ...
Addiction is NOT a case for lack of self respect. That's the last time I'm saying it as this thread is now making my head hurt!
rytcharlie: I think it was me on this thread who first suggested people who needlessly, willfully and voluntarily take carcinogenic substances into their lungs on a daily basis are showing a lack of self respect .. I'm sorry that that, for me, obvious statement winds you up so much, mate. Maybe you could explain why it's wrong .. if you want .. or if you don't want that's cool too ... I don't really give a fig what others do to kill themselves as in the end it's their funeral as far as I can see .. excuse my uncaring attitude but why should anyone care about people who so blatantly refuse to care for themselves ..
to each their own and may peace prevail ...
to each their own and may peace prevail ...
Rytche, I didn't even realise it was you who said it, and it's nothing personal that's for sure. Nobody's accepting my point of view so I'm just gonna have to accept that nobody's accepting it.
I'll just go and sit in the corner now and be quiet ok. taff1: Rytche, I didn't even realise it was you who said it, and it's nothing personal that's for sure. Nobody's accepting my point of view so I'm just gonna have to accept that nobody's accepting it. I'll just go and sit in the corner now and be quiet ok.
no probs mate
rytcharlie: no probs mate
Thanks for the interesting debate. I've been a smoker on and off for over 20 years and do want to stop as I am sure most smokers would if it was only that easy. I'm actually reading 'Alan Carrs, The EasyWay to Stop Smoking' by Penguin Books. He guarantees that you will stop having read this book or money back. It is quite a strange book in the sense that he tells you to keep smoking while reading the book and not to even attempt to cut down. He also claims that no will power will be needed and I will actually enjoy stopping by the time i've read the last page....only half way through just now so will keep you posted on progress. Will be amazing if it works but here's hoping
Also, he used to smoke 100 a day and did so for 30 years and he says he stopped overnight and didn't touch another one again.
Also, he used to smoke 100 a day and did so for 30 years and he says he stopped overnight and didn't touch another one again.
Ralphy2407: Thanks for the interesting debate. I've been a smoker on and off for over 20 years and do want to stop as I am sure most smokers would if it was only that easy. I'm actually reading 'Alan Carrs, The EasyWay to Stop Smoking' by Penguin Books. He guarantees that you will stop having read this book or money back. It is quite a strange book in the sense that he tells you to keep smoking while reading the book and not to even attempt to cut down. He also claims that no will power will be needed and I will actually enjoy stopping by the time i've read the last page....only half way through just now so will keep you posted on progress. Will be amazing if it works but here's hoping
Also, he used to smoke 100 a day and did so for 30 years and he says he stopped overnight and didn't touch another one again.
Also, he used to smoke 100 a day and did so for 30 years and he says he stopped overnight and didn't touch another one again.
When you're done, please tell us some secrets!!
taff1: When you're done, please tell us some secrets!!
No probs Taff....we'll see what happens
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Has a similar effect as Cyanide,by preventing your Red Bloodcells absorbing Oxygen!