US congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords shot point blank at public meeting (805)
AlbertaghostCultural Wasteland, Alberta Canada76 Threads 5 Polls 5,914 Postsgininitaly: Amen to that.
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gininitaly: No actually I wasn't at all.... just a general observation Leigh.
Maybe suspicion is once again in the eye of the beholder... as it seems some glory in the fight as opposed to solutions we can both live with, which is what I've always looked for.
But obviously what seems reasonable to me, apparently lights knee jerk spasms in others.
I have yet to hear one of you righties once say... that yes maybe things are getting just a tad bit out of hand out here with all this violent rhetoric, you guys seem to get stuck in 'My way or the highway', reasonable discussion optional. If I'm dubbed cynical because I feel the right has gone apocalyptic , what could possibly be my other option? Roll over and be victimized along with the rest of America as we are now?
Tell me, defend your position... what do your beliefs do for the majority of the American people?
Maybe suspicion is once again in the eye of the beholder... as it seems some glory in the fight as opposed to solutions we can both live with, which is what I've always looked for.
But obviously what seems reasonable to me, apparently lights knee jerk spasms in others.
I have yet to hear one of you righties once say... that yes maybe things are getting just a tad bit out of hand out here with all this violent rhetoric, you guys seem to get stuck in 'My way or the highway', reasonable discussion optional. If I'm dubbed cynical because I feel the right has gone apocalyptic , what could possibly be my other option? Roll over and be victimized along with the rest of America as we are now?
Tell me, defend your position... what do your beliefs do for the majority of the American people?
Hello gin.........This night is not for sleep it seems.....so finding your response and a question is good. Though you say your comment was not directed at me, rather a general observation, I still feel the sting of your words and so, might easily lump them into the very actions you criticize, rhetoric, no matter what dress or suit it is wearing.
First, I am not a "righty" or a "lefty", I have never cared much for labels. I have stated this many times in posts and in several different forums. I stay in political forums for the most part because the people I meet in them, and the topics within the topic, interest me. I have learned much and in a very short time. I am not a political authority, however, in the past decade my desire to learn and become better informed has increased due to the actions of my countries leaders.
I have also commented more that once about negative rhetoric and its' consequences. If one understands the principles of the two parties, one also understands "how" they differ. It is like they agree to disagree. The problems begin during election campaigns, times of trouble, or when the "balance" of power is out of "balance". I do not like it any more than you do. I do not condone or condemn it, I only question, try to understand, and make informed choices when the time comes.
I do not use rhetoric like "apocalyptic" when referring to the right or left because: One, I don't feel that way and two, even if I did, I would not be irresponsible enough to use inflammatory political
jargon.
Last, I am a "loyal" American in good times or bad. I do not like it when people "bash" my country and when I see it happening, I usually react. I believe in a republic, I believe in my country. We will get things right.....we will correct our mistakes, and we will continue to lead.
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For a really odd "memorial service" I believe the President did a pretty decent job of remembering the victims. 
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leigh2154: Hello gin.........This night is not for sleep it seems.....so finding your response and a question is good. Though you say your comment was not directed at me, rather a general observation, I still feel the sting of your words and so, might easily lump them into the very actions you criticize, rhetoric, no matter what dress or suit it is wearing, is still rhetoric.
First, I am not a "righty" or a "lefty", I have never cared much for labels. I have stated this many times in posts and in several different forums. I stay in political forums for the most part because the people I meet in them, and the topics within the topic, interest me. I have learned much and in a very short time. I am not a political authority, however, in the past decade my desire to learn and become better informed has increased due to the actions of my countries leaders.
I have also commented more than once about negative rhetoric and its' consequences. If one understands the principles of the two parties, one also understands "how" they differ. It is like they agree to disagree. The problems begin during election campaigns, times of trouble, or when the "balance" of power is out of "balance". I do not like it any more than you do. I do not condone or condemn it, I only question, try to understand, and make informed choices when the time comes.
I do not use rhetoric like "apocalyptic" when referring to the right or left because: One, I don't feel that way and two, even if I did, I would not be irresponsible enough to use inflammatory political
jargon to get my point across.
Last, I am a "loyal" American in good times or bad. I do not like it when people "bash" my country and when I see it happening, I usually react. I believe in a republic, I believe in my country. We will get things right.....we will correct our mistakes, and we will continue to lead.
First, I am not a "righty" or a "lefty", I have never cared much for labels. I have stated this many times in posts and in several different forums. I stay in political forums for the most part because the people I meet in them, and the topics within the topic, interest me. I have learned much and in a very short time. I am not a political authority, however, in the past decade my desire to learn and become better informed has increased due to the actions of my countries leaders.
I have also commented more than once about negative rhetoric and its' consequences. If one understands the principles of the two parties, one also understands "how" they differ. It is like they agree to disagree. The problems begin during election campaigns, times of trouble, or when the "balance" of power is out of "balance". I do not like it any more than you do. I do not condone or condemn it, I only question, try to understand, and make informed choices when the time comes.
I do not use rhetoric like "apocalyptic" when referring to the right or left because: One, I don't feel that way and two, even if I did, I would not be irresponsible enough to use inflammatory political
jargon to get my point across.
Last, I am a "loyal" American in good times or bad. I do not like it when people "bash" my country and when I see it happening, I usually react. I believe in a republic, I believe in my country. We will get things right.....we will correct our mistakes, and we will continue to lead.
And PS Gin: I don't know if America will ever meet the "high" expectations of every person, in every country, in the World, and at the same time, or not; I haven't figured that out yet. I only know that she is my country and I will keep trying. Maybe that is why I am at peace with myself.
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leigh2154: Yes, he really did Fud!!! Can't sleep either???
I see the red light, back in a minute!!!!!
I see the red light, back in a minute!!!!!
Oh, I get it, have a good one, give em hell!!!!!!!!
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gininitaly: Sparky
Were you referring to me running my mouth or everyone in general?
Were you referring to me running my mouth or everyone in general?
Sorry, missed your question, everyone in general. With rare exception I save the insults for face to face or via e-mail
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Time you all have some Shuteye!
Nearly 11AM here!
Must be 4AMish over there!
Nearly 11AM here!
Must be 4AMish over there!
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Sparky55: I agree.
On another note, I don't expect kissmyass is really the name of a town/city in Indiana.
It's just a small Hamlet,won't even find it on Google Earth!On another note, I don't expect kissmyass is really the name of a town/city in Indiana.
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Conrad73: It's just a small Hamlet,won't even find it on Google Earth!
I expect not...
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Sparky55: I've mentioned this before. There is a problem with both sides spewing the disrespectful rhetoric. Both are active players and both the far left and right have plenty of representatives with "the my way or the highway" attitude and/or the idea that one side or another is being victimized by the other as you mentioned. Perhaps the best thing they could do is start listening rather than running their mouths.
Thank God President Obama while acknowledging there is discourse between the political parties still managed to make it very clear there was no connection to that discourse and this event by saying
As far as this event goes, there is no connection between the political rhetoric and the actions of the murderer of these innocent people. " For the truth is that none of us can know exactly what triggered this vicious attack. None of us can know with any certainty what might have stopped those shots from being fired, or what thoughts lurked in the inner recesses of a violent man’s mind.
So yes, we must examine all the facts behind this tragedy. We cannot and will not be passive in the face of such violence. We should be willing to challenge old assumptions in order to lessen the prospects of violence in the future.
But what we can’t do is use this tragedy as one more occasion to turn on one another. As we discuss these issues, let each of us do so with a good dose of humility. Rather than pointing fingers or assigning blame, let us use this occasion to expand our moral imaginations, to listen to each other more carefully, to sharpen our instincts for empathy, and remind ourselves of all the ways our hopes and dreams are bound together."
While I certainly don't like President Obama's political philosophy, I do respect the man and the office he holds. He's just earned a lot more of my respect for doing nothing other than using common sense and a sense of fairness. Also, cudos to him for not allowing those on the far left to use this horrible event as a means to push a political agenda.
Otherwise he'd have to kick his own Shinbone as well!Thank God President Obama while acknowledging there is discourse between the political parties still managed to make it very clear there was no connection to that discourse and this event by saying
As far as this event goes, there is no connection between the political rhetoric and the actions of the murderer of these innocent people. " For the truth is that none of us can know exactly what triggered this vicious attack. None of us can know with any certainty what might have stopped those shots from being fired, or what thoughts lurked in the inner recesses of a violent man’s mind.
So yes, we must examine all the facts behind this tragedy. We cannot and will not be passive in the face of such violence. We should be willing to challenge old assumptions in order to lessen the prospects of violence in the future.
But what we can’t do is use this tragedy as one more occasion to turn on one another. As we discuss these issues, let each of us do so with a good dose of humility. Rather than pointing fingers or assigning blame, let us use this occasion to expand our moral imaginations, to listen to each other more carefully, to sharpen our instincts for empathy, and remind ourselves of all the ways our hopes and dreams are bound together."
While I certainly don't like President Obama's political philosophy, I do respect the man and the office he holds. He's just earned a lot more of my respect for doing nothing other than using common sense and a sense of fairness. Also, cudos to him for not allowing those on the far left to use this horrible event as a means to push a political agenda.
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Sparky55: I expect not...
Wouldn't even try!------ This thread is Archived ------
To associate this shooting with political rhetoric is an exercise in stupidity.
It assumes too much of the people. Are people are so dull witted that they would take these political metaphors literally? I truly doubt it. If this individual was 'prompted' by a campaign poster (which I doubt), it is clear that he didn't need much of an excuse to commit an atrocity. The media is running with this because it is contentious, for without contention, they lose their audience.
It assumes too much of the people. Are people are so dull witted that they would take these political metaphors literally? I truly doubt it. If this individual was 'prompted' by a campaign poster (which I doubt), it is clear that he didn't need much of an excuse to commit an atrocity. The media is running with this because it is contentious, for without contention, they lose their audience.
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Conrad73: Otherwise he'd have to kick his own Shinbone as well!
Yeah, I'm just glad to see this event was done with grace. When these politicians act with some civility the differences don't seem that great.
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Blues63: To associate this shooting with political rhetoric is an exercise in stupidity.
It assumes too much of the people. Are people are so dull witted that they would take these political metaphors literally? I truly doubt it. If this individual was 'prompted' by a campaign poster (which I doubt), it is clear that he didn't need much of an excuse to commit an atrocity. The media is running with this because it is contentious, for without contention, they lose their audience.
It assumes too much of the people. Are people are so dull witted that they would take these political metaphors literally? I truly doubt it. If this individual was 'prompted' by a campaign poster (which I doubt), it is clear that he didn't need much of an excuse to commit an atrocity. The media is running with this because it is contentious, for without contention, they lose their audience.
I think you get my point Blue..........last sentence hits the nail on the head!!
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To Leigh as your quote wouldn't fit:
Is a country it's government... or it's myriad people? Who is to say who loves a country more... one who blindly supports it's government no matter what it's up to or those who stay ever vigilant to misuse of power?
Is a country it's government... or it's myriad people? Who is to say who loves a country more... one who blindly supports it's government no matter what it's up to or those who stay ever vigilant to misuse of power?
In response to: "Prudence ... will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.
But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."
THOMAS JEFFERSON, Declaration of Independence
"Educate your children to self-control, to the habit of holding passion and prejudice and evil tendencies subject to an upright and reasoning will, and you have done much to abolish misery from their future and crimes from society."
Benjamin Franklin
But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."
THOMAS JEFFERSON, Declaration of Independence
"Educate your children to self-control, to the habit of holding passion and prejudice and evil tendencies subject to an upright and reasoning will, and you have done much to abolish misery from their future and crimes from society."
Benjamin Franklin
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Blues63: To associate this shooting with political rhetoric is an exercise in stupidity.
It assumes too much of the people. Are people are so dull witted that they would take these political metaphors literally? I truly doubt it. If this individual was 'prompted' by a campaign poster (which I doubt), it is clear that he didn't need much of an excuse to commit an atrocity. The media is running with this because it is contentious, for without contention, they lose their audience.
It assumes too much of the people. Are people are so dull witted that they would take these political metaphors literally? I truly doubt it. If this individual was 'prompted' by a campaign poster (which I doubt), it is clear that he didn't need much of an excuse to commit an atrocity. The media is running with this because it is contentious, for without contention, they lose their audience.
I don't even pay attention to the media... besides who owns them anyway?
A lot of Americans do and the shoe fits... don't delude yourself into thinking reason is anywhere near at hand or that we have a real free press... follow the money.
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gininitaly: To Leigh as your quote wouldn't fit:
Is a country it's government... or it's myriad people? Who is to say who loves a country more... one who blindly supports it's government no matter what it's up to or those who stay ever vigilant to misuse of power?
Is a country it's government... or it's myriad people? Who is to say who loves a country more... one who blindly supports it's government no matter what it's up to or those who stay ever vigilant to misuse of power?
Gin.................My name appears, so I will go with "you are addressing your question to me".
Clarify for this dimwitted woman.............are you speaking about "good vs evil" , "love vs hate",
"ignoranance (blind????) vs vigilance" "country vs people", or all four? If I have that part right, where are you placing me. I can't answer you until I understand your question question, if it is a question. If it is not, please accept my apology. Sorry to appear stupid but........you don't make it easy!!!
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leigh2154: Gin.................My name appears, so I will go with "you are addressing your question to me".
Clarify for this dimwitted woman.............are you speaking about "good vs evil" , "love vs hate",
"ignoranance (blind????) vs vigilance" "country vs people", or all four? If I have that part right, where are you placing me. I can't answer you until I understand your question question, if it is a question. If it is not, please accept my apology. Sorry to appear stupid but........you don't make it easy!!!
Clarify for this dimwitted woman.............are you speaking about "good vs evil" , "love vs hate",
"ignoranance (blind????) vs vigilance" "country vs people", or all four? If I have that part right, where are you placing me. I can't answer you until I understand your question question, if it is a question. If it is not, please accept my apology. Sorry to appear stupid but........you don't make it easy!!!
No, more like I just got back from the store and between the cat mewling at me for a can and putting stuff away I lost half the response I was writing
... and now I'm too lazy to rewrite.But it pretty much came down to me being the Pollyanna in this day and age... not the other way around.
Now where was I?
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gininitaly: Yeah.... but I'm not the sort to go hunting for covert extremist doctrines.. just tend to notice the ones that hit me in the face every day.
Seems like Loughlen extremist doctrine....if one can call it that....hit nineteen people.
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ttom500: Seems like Loughlen extremist doctrine....if one can call it that....hit nineteen people.
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