The Hadron Collider. (15)
None directly. But if we as humans stopped looking for answers, we would cease to be human. You and me would be swimming in a swamp, the size of frogs, still.
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MADDOG69: None directly. But if we as humans stopped looking for answers, we would cease to be human. You and me would be swimming in a swamp, the size of frogs, still.
My thoughts too but why not spend the money investigating cancer cures and the like? Why spend it out of mere curiosity? Am I missing something here?
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The vieo does not explain the point of it! I can use you tube myself thank you.
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To win a bet against Stephen Hawking. A $100 bet to be exact, not to be sniffed at.
Seriously though the collider could answer things like whether faster-than-light travel is possible and whether the closely related idea of time-travel could also be possible.
The collider will test whether the unbreakable laws of physics are actually unbreakable. My hunch is that they are unbreakable.. at least on our plane of reality.. and that the collider will be the beginnings, and only the beginnings, of at least a theoretical ability to step inside new dimensions where the laws of this universe break down - the discovery of the Higgs Boson represents this new horizon.
I remain pessimistic, however, due to the idea that if faster-than-light and time-travel were possible then this universe, aged over 14 billion years, should be swarming with alien life. Yet it isn't. Perhaps the collider will be the end of the road, the omega of science & the death of Human progress... all to be reborn and repeated upon another Earth within another moment in time inside a never-ending cycle, such is the way of all things.
Seriously though the collider could answer things like whether faster-than-light travel is possible and whether the closely related idea of time-travel could also be possible.
The collider will test whether the unbreakable laws of physics are actually unbreakable. My hunch is that they are unbreakable.. at least on our plane of reality.. and that the collider will be the beginnings, and only the beginnings, of at least a theoretical ability to step inside new dimensions where the laws of this universe break down - the discovery of the Higgs Boson represents this new horizon.
I remain pessimistic, however, due to the idea that if faster-than-light and time-travel were possible then this universe, aged over 14 billion years, should be swarming with alien life. Yet it isn't. Perhaps the collider will be the end of the road, the omega of science & the death of Human progress... all to be reborn and repeated upon another Earth within another moment in time inside a never-ending cycle, such is the way of all things.
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Rumple4skin: To win a bet against Stephen Hawking. A $100 bet to be exact, not to be sniffed at.
Seriously though the collider could answer things like whether faster-than-light travel is possible and whether the closely related idea of time-travel could also be possible.
The collider will test whether the unbreakable laws of physics are actually unbreakable. My hunch is that they are unbreakable.. at least on our plane of reality.. and that the collider will be the beginnings, and only the beginnings, of at least a theoretical ability to step inside new dimensions where the laws of this universe break down - the discovery of the Higgs Boson represents this new horizon.
I remain pessimistic, however, due to the idea that if faster-than-light and time-travel were possible then this universe, aged over 14 billion years, should be swarming with alien life. Yet it isn't. Perhaps the collider will be the end of the road, the omega of science & the death of Human progress... all to be reborn and repeated upon another Earth within another moment in time inside a never-ending cycle, such is the way of all things.
Seriously though the collider could answer things like whether faster-than-light travel is possible and whether the closely related idea of time-travel could also be possible.
The collider will test whether the unbreakable laws of physics are actually unbreakable. My hunch is that they are unbreakable.. at least on our plane of reality.. and that the collider will be the beginnings, and only the beginnings, of at least a theoretical ability to step inside new dimensions where the laws of this universe break down - the discovery of the Higgs Boson represents this new horizon.
I remain pessimistic, however, due to the idea that if faster-than-light and time-travel were possible then this universe, aged over 14 billion years, should be swarming with alien life. Yet it isn't. Perhaps the collider will be the end of the road, the omega of science & the death of Human progress... all to be reborn and repeated upon another Earth within another moment in time inside a never-ending cycle, such is the way of all things.
Specifically speaking the Large Hadron Collider, simply accelerates particles to such an energy state that certain other particles are produced. Some particles only manifest themselves at high energy states. The Higgs Boson for example. We need higher and higher energies to see even more particles past the boson.
The history of particle physics is somewhat predictable. Particles are discovered that fill in a mass energy equation. With a very slight difference on one side. That slight difference is explored and then clever people postulate the existence of another particle unseen. This particle generally requires more energy than the preceding experimental results. And so large more powerful accelerators are built. And so the results of the next one are plugged into the Standard Model and they fit.... but there's always a slight mismatch. And so the cycle continues.
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MADDOG69: Specifically speaking the Large Hadron Collider, simply accelerates particles to such an energy state that certain other particles are produced. Some particles only manifest themselves at high energy states. The Higgs Boson for example. We need higher and higher energies to see even more particles past the boson.
The history of particle physics is somewhat predictable. Particles are discovered that fill in a mass energy equation. With a very slight difference on one side. That slight difference is explored and then clever people postulate the existence of another particle unseen. This particle generally requires more energy than the preceding experimental results. And so large more powerful accelerators are built. And so the results of the next one are plugged into the Standard Model and they fit.... but there's always a slight mismatch. And so the cycle continues.
The history of particle physics is somewhat predictable. Particles are discovered that fill in a mass energy equation. With a very slight difference on one side. That slight difference is explored and then clever people postulate the existence of another particle unseen. This particle generally requires more energy than the preceding experimental results. And so large more powerful accelerators are built. And so the results of the next one are plugged into the Standard Model and they fit.... but there's always a slight mismatch. And so the cycle continues.
That's the theory and the nature, and I agree that there will always be a particle within the particle, a law beneath the law, and that science is attempting to chase the infinity.
The practical implications of understanding the nature of particle physics is how we may bend them to induce an effect, the next horizon being breaking the speed of light. It may be that physically this is not possible, and what ultimately kills the pursuit of knowledge is when knowledge no longer achieves anything practical.
Perhaps knowledge itself will go the same way as art, now that modern art no longer speaks for the real world and only exists amongst those whom insist upon it for its own sake, it becomes a pretentious and trivial pursuit that slowly succumbs to its own futility. Art without inspiration & knowledge without power, these are dead concepts.
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Godsgift: WHY?
An old topic but just watching the satellite tv about it. It has cost millions if not billions in whatever currency. I'm sure it's of scientific interest BUT WHY? What use is it to us?
Sorry but I honestly don't get it.
Theres going to be loads of uses to help humanity,endless stuff,I would they rather they do things like this than builiding nuclear submarines that cost billions and then have to be scrapped in a few years.An old topic but just watching the satellite tv about it. It has cost millions if not billions in whatever currency. I'm sure it's of scientific interest BUT WHY? What use is it to us?
Sorry but I honestly don't get it.
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Rumple4skin: That's the theory and the nature, and I agree that there will always be a particle within the particle, a law beneath the law, and that science is attempting to chase the infinity.
The practical implications of understanding the nature of particle physics is how we may bend them to induce an effect, the next horizon being breaking the speed of light. It may be that physically this is not possible, and what ultimately kills the pursuit of knowledge is when knowledge no longer achieves anything practical.
Perhaps knowledge itself will go the same way as art, now that modern art no longer speaks for the real world and only exists amongst those whom insist upon it for its own sake, it becomes a pretentious and trivial pursuit that slowly succumbs to its own futility. Art without inspiration & knowledge without power, these are dead concepts.
The practical implications of understanding the nature of particle physics is how we may bend them to induce an effect, the next horizon being breaking the speed of light. It may be that physically this is not possible, and what ultimately kills the pursuit of knowledge is when knowledge no longer achieves anything practical.
Perhaps knowledge itself will go the same way as art, now that modern art no longer speaks for the real world and only exists amongst those whom insist upon it for its own sake, it becomes a pretentious and trivial pursuit that slowly succumbs to its own futility. Art without inspiration & knowledge without power, these are dead concepts.
There's always spin offs though. The engineering itself is so huge and complicated and ground breaking for the machine that there's always new technology seeping into the wild.
As for the results themselves, sure they have implications. The man above mentioned cancer research. One of the only ways to examine complex proteins is by using intense X-rays from Synchrotron/Accelerators. Basically small versions of LHC. There's loads of accelerators around the world. Been used for years for all sorts of things. The UK had a big one. Forget the name of it. It was fairly powerful in it's day.
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Sorry guys. I read and understand your comments but I'm no further ahead as to why governments are pumping money into this and what they hope to get out of it. In spite of my respect for Prof Hawking, I just don't understand why. 
We invent cures because of illness. We invented aircraft to get us around more quickly. We invent a whole load of useless stuff cos it makes money and even that I can understand. (Laboratoire Garnier)
But WHY this damned thing?
We invent cures because of illness. We invented aircraft to get us around more quickly. We invent a whole load of useless stuff cos it makes money and even that I can understand. (Laboratoire Garnier)
But WHY this damned thing?
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MADDOG69: There's always spin offs though. The engineering itself is so huge and complicated and ground breaking for the machine that there's always new technology seeping into the wild.
As for the results themselves, sure they have implications. The man above mentioned cancer research. One of the only ways to examine complex proteins is by using intense X-rays from Synchrotron/Accelerators. Basically small versions of LHC. There's loads of accelerators around the world. Been used for years for all sorts of things. The UK had a big one. Forget the name of it. It was fairly powerful in it's day.
As for the results themselves, sure they have implications. The man above mentioned cancer research. One of the only ways to examine complex proteins is by using intense X-rays from Synchrotron/Accelerators. Basically small versions of LHC. There's loads of accelerators around the world. Been used for years for all sorts of things. The UK had a big one. Forget the name of it. It was fairly powerful in it's day.
I'm not saying there's nothing to be gleamed from this, on the contrary the LHC is a must even if it is the end of the line. However, what happens to Humanity if/when we fail to break the major barriers? What happens when our leaps become baby steps? Will we ultimately pitter-patter out to the point of standing still?
Like I said before, there must be a definitive barrier within this universe that can not be overcome or we would have witnessed this achievement in another species. Space exploration, colonising the universe - escaping the finite trappings of this world thus ensuring Humanity's near-eternal existence - this would be such barrier and I believe that we are now nearing this.
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Rumple4skin: I'm not saying there's nothing to be gleamed from this, on the contrary the LHC is a must even if it is the end of the line. However, what happens to Humanity if/when we fail to break the major barriers? What happens when our leaps become baby steps? Will we ultimately pitter-patter out to the point of standing still?
Like I said before, there must be a definitive barrier within this universe that can not be overcome or we would have witnessed this achievement in another species. Space exploration, colonising the universe - escaping the finite trappings of this world thus ensuring Humanity's near-eternal existence - this would be such barrier and I believe that we are now nearing this.
Like I said before, there must be a definitive barrier within this universe that can not be overcome or we would have witnessed this achievement in another species. Space exploration, colonising the universe - escaping the finite trappings of this world thus ensuring Humanity's near-eternal existence - this would be such barrier and I believe that we are now nearing this.
It's all relative. It's taken us c.14 billion years to get to the stage of talking hubris to each other on the internet. There is no reason why me might think that something else might have done it quicker. Our current evolutionary stage is profoundly linked to Natural laws of Physics. Mundane things like molecules reacting to achieve lowest energy state etc have all gotten us the human brain. We are the product of Natures laws. They are not some abstract thing. We are the best that Nature can do given the time it's had, IMO.
There was a time at the turn of the 20th century when the general consensus from Natural Philosophers/Physicists was that we had nearly discovered everything with just a few things to round up on... such as this pesky idea of Quantum states and some other minor things.
How wrong were they.I have an old 1930s Encyclopaedia back in the home place. hahaha. It makes some reading.
I don't think we ever had leaps. They were always baby steps. Counter intuitively however, todays baby steps are even bigger than before. With larger population and general ending of Feudalism we have a huge population to draw on for advancement pioneers. It seems that the more we discover, the more we learn there is so much more to discover, notwithstanding the aforementioned consensus. The sheer amount of academic publications nowadays is mind boggling to follow it all. We just don't hear about it all. It gets lost in the white noise. Most just hear a few things from some fella in a wheelchair and think that's the state of affairs for today.
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MADDOG69: It's all relative. It's taken us c.14 billion years to get to the stage of talking hubris to each other on the internet. There is no reason why me might think that something else might have done it quicker. Our current evolutionary stage is profoundly linked to Natural laws of Physics. Mundane things like molecules reacting to achieve lowest energy state etc have all gotten us the human brain. We are the product of Natures laws. They are not some abstract thing. We are the best that Nature can do given the time it's had, IMO.
There was a time at the turn of the 20th century when the general consensus from Natural Philosophers/Physicists was that we had nearly discovered everything with just a few things to round up on... such as this pesky idea of Quantum states and some other minor things. How wrong were they.
I have an old 1930s Encyclopaedia back in the home place. hahaha. It makes some reading.
I don't think we ever had leaps. They were always baby steps. Counter intuitively however, todays baby steps are even bigger than before. With larger population and general ending of Feudalism we have a huge population to draw on for advancement pioneers. It seems that the more we discover, the more we learn there is so much more to discover, notwithstanding the aforementioned consensus. The sheer amount of academic publications nowadays is mind boggling to follow it all. We just don't hear about it all. It gets lost in the white noise. Most just hear a few things from some fella in a wheelchair and think that's the state of affairs for today.
There was a time at the turn of the 20th century when the general consensus from Natural Philosophers/Physicists was that we had nearly discovered everything with just a few things to round up on... such as this pesky idea of Quantum states and some other minor things. How wrong were they.
I have an old 1930s Encyclopaedia back in the home place. hahaha. It makes some reading.
I don't think we ever had leaps. They were always baby steps. Counter intuitively however, todays baby steps are even bigger than before. With larger population and general ending of Feudalism we have a huge population to draw on for advancement pioneers. It seems that the more we discover, the more we learn there is so much more to discover, notwithstanding the aforementioned consensus. The sheer amount of academic publications nowadays is mind boggling to follow it all. We just don't hear about it all. It gets lost in the white noise. Most just hear a few things from some fella in a wheelchair and think that's the state of affairs for today.
Think though that the mid 20th century was the space age, we're now in the information age - which of these two is truly ambitious, which is truly awe-inspiring? To "progress" from walking on the moon to being on the internet is a defeat of science and slowing down of progress, in my opinion.
Place in the context of the times the emergence of the automobile, the A bomb, electricity, sputnik, the discovery of the new world etc - is there one thing of the last forty years that could compare to any of these? Are we truly expanding our frontiers in any meaningful sense?
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The answer to the why is the same as to "Why climb Mount Kilimanjaro or any mountain" - because it is there.
Willie Sutton, infamous bank robber in the earlier decade was asked why he robbed banks - he said "because that is where the money is".
The very idea that we often explore new territory, discover new insight, dive off our grandfather's barn into a pile of hay.....
Just seemed like a good idea at the time.....
Willie Sutton, infamous bank robber in the earlier decade was asked why he robbed banks - he said "because that is where the money is".
The very idea that we often explore new territory, discover new insight, dive off our grandfather's barn into a pile of hay.....
Just seemed like a good idea at the time.....
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An old topic but just watching the satellite tv about it. It has cost millions if not billions in whatever currency. I'm sure it's of scientific interest BUT WHY? What use is it to us?
Sorry but I honestly don't get it.