Everyone is in Debt !! (325)
ivajlovSofia, Sofia City Bulgaria25 Threads 12 Polls 387 PostsYa Mr Bogart, GDP is absolutely useless for such between-countries comparisons. Even its numerical value in $ cannot convey the real wealth of a total country. So I took this housing/mortgage/renting market for this purpose as it's being a very important and quite a big one.
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Here is an interesting copy and paste from an article in BBC news that I think might add to the understanding of debt and health of a country.
A group of charities has launched a campaign aimed at highlighting the "humanitarian crisis", claiming that more than 870,000 people are living in poverty in Scotland.
But what is poverty? Is it something which can be defined by official statistics?
Charities, such as the Joseph Rowntree Foundation (JRF), say that understanding exactly what poverty is provides the first step towards being able to tackle it.
But first it is important to know what poverty is not.
In a report entitled "What is meant by poverty?" the foundation said: "When we talk about poverty in the UK today we rarely mean malnutrition or the levels of squalor of previous centuries, or even the hardships of the 1930s before the advent of the welfare state.
"It is a relative concept. 'Poor' people are those who are considerably worse off than the majority of the population - a level of deprivation heavily out of line with the general living standards enjoyed by the majority of the population in one of the most affluent countries in the world."
A group of charities has launched a campaign aimed at highlighting the "humanitarian crisis", claiming that more than 870,000 people are living in poverty in Scotland.
But what is poverty? Is it something which can be defined by official statistics?
Charities, such as the Joseph Rowntree Foundation (JRF), say that understanding exactly what poverty is provides the first step towards being able to tackle it.
But first it is important to know what poverty is not.
In a report entitled "What is meant by poverty?" the foundation said: "When we talk about poverty in the UK today we rarely mean malnutrition or the levels of squalor of previous centuries, or even the hardships of the 1930s before the advent of the welfare state.
"It is a relative concept. 'Poor' people are those who are considerably worse off than the majority of the population - a level of deprivation heavily out of line with the general living standards enjoyed by the majority of the population in one of the most affluent countries in the world."
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I dug out some 1947 National News
The United States' Gross National Product GNP begins its historic postwar surge, ushering in an era of economic growth.
Congress passes the Taft-Harley Act over Truman's veto severely curtailing the power of organized labor.
The United States' Gross National Product GNP begins its historic postwar surge, ushering in an era of economic growth.
Congress passes the Taft-Harley Act over Truman's veto severely curtailing the power of organized labor.
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1947 cost of living in the United States
New Home $6,650.00
Average income $2,854.00 per ear
New car $1,290.00
Average rent $68.00 per month
Tuition to Harvard University $420.00 per year
movie Ticket 55 cents
Gasoline 15 cents per gallon
New Home $6,650.00
Average income $2,854.00 per ear
New car $1,290.00
Average rent $68.00 per month
Tuition to Harvard University $420.00 per year
movie Ticket 55 cents
Gasoline 15 cents per gallon
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JeanKimberley: 1947 cost of living in the United States
New Home $6,650.00
Average income $2,854.00 per ear
New car $1,290.00
Average rent $68.00 per month
Tuition to Harvard University $420.00 per year
movie Ticket 55 cents
Gasoline 15 cents per gallon
New Home $6,650.00
Average income $2,854.00 per ear
New car $1,290.00
Average rent $68.00 per month
Tuition to Harvard University $420.00 per year
movie Ticket 55 cents
Gasoline 15 cents per gallon
According the Bank for International Settlements, global debts worldwide have increased 40% since 2007 to over $100 Trillion. Apparently the only way to stop a full meltdown is to keep issuing more and more "controlled" debt. as the most part of the debt is interest, few questions….
What happens when they raise interest rates ?.. math is simple, just 1%,…
and… How long can we keep doing this ?
“The amount of debt globally has soared more than 40 percent to $100 trillion since the first signs of the financial crisis as governments borrowed to pull their economies out of recession and companies took advantage of record low interest rates, according to the Bank for International Settlements.
The $30 trillion increase from $70 trillion between mid-2007 and mid-2013 compares with a $3.86 trillion decline in the value of equities to $53.8 trillion in the same period, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. The jump in debt as measured by the Basel, Switzerland-based BIS in its quarterly review is almost twice the U.S.’s gross domestic product.
Borrowing has soared as central banks suppress benchmark interest rates to spur growth after the U.S. subprime mortgage market collapsed and Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc.’s bankruptcy sent the world into its worst financial crisis since the Great Depression. Yields on all types of bonds, from governments to corporates and mortgages, average about 2 percent, down from more than 4.8 percent in 2007, according to the Bank of America Merrill Lynch Global Broad Market Index.”
regarding countries, here a list of some "winner and losers"... in the debt world.
Winners
Hong Kong --- 3.34% --- China doors, normal…
Russia ----10.06%, - very low debt to GDP.... we might understand why all this mess.
Australia ---- 19.28% --- life is normal there
Norway --- 29.56% -- always one step ahead,
South Korea --- 37% --- heavy dependency on export. maybe
Japan --- 16.79% --- will still keep their 0% interest… for now
Swiss --- 17.57% --- Its swiss… what else!
Fair
Turkey -- 44% - lets see… politicians´s "appetite" .
Germany -- 79.60% - not so bad , still OK
Losers
Singapore - 115.37%, - where did it go?
USA 103.18% --- how much more? …depression in the future?
UK --- 87.09% -- keep playing, but must sell to Russia… and china
France --- 94.40% -- broken windows soon.
Belgium ---- 105.76% --- buried? or the ghost army?
Spain --- 96.01% --- sun is almost gone
Broke..
Cyprus -- 2,031.20% -- hey, how they survive ?
Greece --- 188.19% --- ask goldman.. they know why.
Portugal --- 131.19% --- run, get out..
Ireland --- 107.58% --- not talking… why?
Italy --- 136.43% --- mafia is ready
All these from the world debt clock, focusing on the debt to GDP ratio. ..
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Yes, Russian 10% are just for flavor. 
They have recently accumulated reserves in hundreds of tons of gold.
Along the way they have totally switched 70% of their 40 years and more old military equipment for newly designed and manufactured one. By the 2020 they are going to do this for the rest 30 percent. The costs for this in their state owned laboratories and factories are 20 percent of what they would have been in the privately owned similar facilities in USA, UK or France.
:chers:
Oh, is US debt 200% according to cited above Swiss estimates or just 110% of their GDP?
O
They have recently accumulated reserves in hundreds of tons of gold.Along the way they have totally switched 70% of their 40 years and more old military equipment for newly designed and manufactured one. By the 2020 they are going to do this for the rest 30 percent. The costs for this in their state owned laboratories and factories are 20 percent of what they would have been in the privately owned similar facilities in USA, UK or France.
:chers:
Oh, is US debt 200% according to cited above Swiss estimates or just 110% of their GDP?
O
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Yes, Russian 10% are just for flavor. They also have recently accumulated reserves in hundreds of tons of gold.
Along the way they have totally switched 70% of their 40 years and more old military equipment for newly designed and manufactured one. By 2020 they are going to do this for the rest 30 percent. The costs for this in their state owned laboratories and factories are 20 percent of what they would have been in the privately owned similar facilities in USA, UK or France. This is true for other sectors of the economy like ice-cream or butter producing ones too.
This may explain why their GNP is so "low" compared to the inflated one of USA, etc... The facts are that Russians are doing very well. They eat real food, have affordable housing, veeery low household gas prices and are proud of themselves and their achievements. They also invest much in fundamental science research.
Oh, after 2020 they will switch military production to totally civil one.
Is US debt 200% according to cited above Swiss estimates or just 110% of their GDP?
Along the way they have totally switched 70% of their 40 years and more old military equipment for newly designed and manufactured one. By 2020 they are going to do this for the rest 30 percent. The costs for this in their state owned laboratories and factories are 20 percent of what they would have been in the privately owned similar facilities in USA, UK or France. This is true for other sectors of the economy like ice-cream or butter producing ones too.
This may explain why their GNP is so "low" compared to the inflated one of USA, etc... The facts are that Russians are doing very well. They eat real food, have affordable housing, veeery low household gas prices and are proud of themselves and their achievements. They also invest much in fundamental science research.
Oh, after 2020 they will switch military production to totally civil one.
Is US debt 200% according to cited above Swiss estimates or just 110% of their GDP?
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Bogart_1960: The Global Debt Clock
I just checked the "World Debt Map" and "World debt comparison"... and it looks like everyone is in debt !!
How is it that an entire planet is in debt? It's not like everyone had money and spend it.. but as money is made out of nothing. and "debt" is money for some.... a few questions.
1. why are we in debt?
2. if everyone is in some sort of debt, then where is all the money?!!
3. who is everyone in debt too? who's holding the other side of this?
"The clock is ticking. Every second, it seems, someone in the world takes on more debt."
Debt per person:
US - $45,966.44
France - $37,535.14
Uk - $38,614.55
Spain - $22,642.68
Germany - $34,215.31http://www.economist.com/content/global_debt_clock
I just checked the "World Debt Map" and "World debt comparison"... and it looks like everyone is in debt !!
How is it that an entire planet is in debt? It's not like everyone had money and spend it.. but as money is made out of nothing. and "debt" is money for some.... a few questions.
1. why are we in debt?
2. if everyone is in some sort of debt, then where is all the money?!!
3. who is everyone in debt too? who's holding the other side of this?
"The clock is ticking. Every second, it seems, someone in the world takes on more debt."
Debt per person:
US - $45,966.44
France - $37,535.14
Uk - $38,614.55
Spain - $22,642.68
Germany - $34,215.31http://www.economist.com/content/global_debt_clock
Answers....1. why are we in debt? WE SPENT TOO MUCH MONEY!
2. if everyone is in some sort of debt, then where is all the money?!!
IT IS BORROWED FROM THE BANK OF CHINA!
3. who is everyone in debt too? who's holding the other side of this?
THE COUNTRY OF CHINA...FOR EXAMPLE FOR AMERICA, IT IS OUR PERSONAL "BOY BLUNDER" PRESIDENT A.K.A. BARRY SOTERO WHO HAS RUN RUN A CREDIT CARD DEBT with the BANK of CHINA, HE'S BORROWING AN UNLIMITED AMOUNT OF MONEY AND ALSO PRINTING UP MONEY AND THAT HE IS BORROWING AGAINST OUR DEBT TO THE TUNE of 30 cents out of EVERY DOLLAR!!!!
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hotburninluv: Answers....1. why are we in debt? WE SPENT TOO MUCH MONEY!
2. if everyone is in some sort of debt, then where is all the money?!!
IT IS BORROWED FROM THE BANK OF CHINA!
3. who is everyone in debt too? who's holding the other side of this?
THE COUNTRY OF CHINA...FOR EXAMPLE FOR AMERICA, IT IS OUR PERSONAL "BOY BLUNDER" PRESIDENT A.K.A. BARRY SOTERO WHO HAS RUN RUN A CREDIT CARD DEBT with the BANK of CHINA, HE'S BORROWING AN UNLIMITED AMOUNT OF MONEY AND ALSO PRINTING UP MONEY AND THAT HE IS BORROWING AGAINST OUR DEBT TO THE TUNE of 30 cents out of EVERY DOLLAR!!!!
2. if everyone is in some sort of debt, then where is all the money?!!
IT IS BORROWED FROM THE BANK OF CHINA!
3. who is everyone in debt too? who's holding the other side of this?
THE COUNTRY OF CHINA...FOR EXAMPLE FOR AMERICA, IT IS OUR PERSONAL "BOY BLUNDER" PRESIDENT A.K.A. BARRY SOTERO WHO HAS RUN RUN A CREDIT CARD DEBT with the BANK of CHINA, HE'S BORROWING AN UNLIMITED AMOUNT OF MONEY AND ALSO PRINTING UP MONEY AND THAT HE IS BORROWING AGAINST OUR DEBT TO THE TUNE of 30 cents out of EVERY DOLLAR!!!!
dont scream. (caps),
its not only from china, but you are right on the printing. its "interest money", as i interest is money out of thin air. anyone can do it. lend someone $10 and charge interest and ask $11 as paid back. that $1 "money" was never produced.. but it can be claim as a real asset... ponzi scheme
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if debt is defined as anything owed, which can be short term or long term and secured and unsecured....then it really does not matter if it is a large amount or a small amount if the country is is debt. It is the politically or structurally soundness of being able to maintain or continue to pay the obligations
one could have a very small amount of debt, experience one catastrophic event and not be able to pay the obligation. Coups, civil wars, bad weather... all have an effect.
Big country - big debt can continue on for a long time - the political climate has a lot more to do with the health of the country than the percentage number of the debt.
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IMHO $$$ values do not make great sense when comparing different countries by their GNP. Anyway, just out of pure curiosity I'd like to see the numbers for the next year biggest economy - China.
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JeanKimberley: if debt is defined as anything owed, which can be short term or long term and secured and unsecured....
then it really does not matter if it is a large amount or a small amount if the country is is debt. It is the politically or structurally soundness of being able to maintain or continue to pay the obligations
one could have a very small amount of debt, experience one catastrophic event and not be able to pay the obligation. Coups, civil wars, bad weather... all have an effect.
Big country - big debt can continue on for a long time - the political climate has a lot more to do with the health of the country than the percentage number of the debt.
then it really does not matter if it is a large amount or a small amount if the country is is debt. It is the politically or structurally soundness of being able to maintain or continue to pay the obligations
one could have a very small amount of debt, experience one catastrophic event and not be able to pay the obligation. Coups, civil wars, bad weather... all have an effect.
Big country - big debt can continue on for a long time - the political climate has a lot more to do with the health of the country than the percentage number of the debt.
debt does matter, and it is impossible to go on for long time. creating money makes money, but not value. also it means that "our gov" is not using the resources in the best way.
in a macro sense, public debt is just a "transfer of purchasing power from individuals to the government" - individuals consume less, the government consumes more. government debt is different economically from individual debt. if debt and money are created without increasing the amount of goods and services we get inflation - which is a tax on all of those who own cash and debt. total world economy is always "balanced" (unless there are alien banks that we don't know).
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JeanKimberley: if debt is defined as anything owed, which can be short term or long term and secured and unsecured....
then it really does not matter if it is a large amount or a small amount if the country is is debt. It is the politically or structurally soundness of being able to maintain or continue to pay the obligations
one could have a very small amount of debt, experience one catastrophic event and not be able to pay the obligation. Coups, civil wars, bad weather... all have an effect.
Big country - big debt can continue on for a long time - the political climate has a lot more to do with the health of the country than the percentage number of the debt.
then it really does not matter if it is a large amount or a small amount if the country is is debt. It is the politically or structurally soundness of being able to maintain or continue to pay the obligations
one could have a very small amount of debt, experience one catastrophic event and not be able to pay the obligation. Coups, civil wars, bad weather... all have an effect.
Big country - big debt can continue on for a long time - the political climate has a lot more to do with the health of the country than the percentage number of the debt.
Big country, big debt and big industry all under one roof is not so bad. If the people hold access to the means of production then the elites can be forced to rule with the consent of the people, that is, we can strike and refuse to produce to combat their excess.
The plan for the global debt is to turn the whole world into a big country so everything is under one roof, however, the onset of this borg system and morality will smash what it means to be Human and utterly separate those most civilised, educated and organised from the means of production - resistance becomes futile. In such an arrangement it will be impossible to demand decent conditions, and Leftoidian moral blackmail will have zero effect on this unaccountable global elite.
Although I very much doubt that Illiberal China/Russia will play ball with the globalist and financial elites, and so what will most likely occur is a world of contending superstates which may or may not lead to Caesarism.
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Obstinance_Works: Big country, big debt and big industry all under one roof is not so bad. If the people hold access to the means of production then the elites can be forced to rule with the consent of the people, that is, we can strike and refuse to produce to combat their excess.
The plan for the global debt is to turn the whole world into a big country so everything is under one roof, however, the onset of this borg system and morality will smash what it means to be Human and utterly separate those most civilised, educated and organised from the means of production - resistance becomes futile. In such an arrangement it will be impossible to demand decent conditions, and Leftoidian moral blackmail will have zero effect on this unaccountable global elite.
Although I very much doubt that Illiberal China/Russia will play ball with the globalist and financial elites, and so what will most likely occur is a world of contending superstates which may or may not lead to Caesarism.
The plan for the global debt is to turn the whole world into a big country so everything is under one roof, however, the onset of this borg system and morality will smash what it means to be Human and utterly separate those most civilised, educated and organised from the means of production - resistance becomes futile. In such an arrangement it will be impossible to demand decent conditions, and Leftoidian moral blackmail will have zero effect on this unaccountable global elite.
Although I very much doubt that Illiberal China/Russia will play ball with the globalist and financial elites, and so what will most likely occur is a world of contending superstates which may or may not lead to Caesarism.
interesting. conspirator or not lets see some facts. as Congressmen, Dennis Kucinich said "The Federal Reserve is no more federal than the Federal Express". true or false ?
the skeptic do agree to the Fed being privately owned, but also say t that policy is partially "governed by the Federally-appointed Board of Governors" as a reason that it operates in the interest of the people.
true: the actual "policy setting committee is the Federal Open Market Committee, which consists of the 7 members of the Board of Governors and 5 Federal Reserve Bank presidents" (The other 7 Federal Reserve presidents attend meetings and participate in discussions but do not vote).
True: the President is required by law, as per section 10 of the Federal Reserve Charter, to "have due regard to a fair representation of the financial, agricultural, industrial, and commercial interests... of the country" in his Governor appointments. (these are appointed officials, not elected officials. not one person involved in monetary policy is elected by the people).
True: oce appointed, Governors are entirely independent and cannot be removed due to their policies. the FMOC meets 8 times a year and its minutes are secret. their decision is only meant to "provide guidance to the Manager in the conduct of day-to-day open market operations", where 'manager' refers to the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, according to federalreserve.gov. (US)
beyond these 8 meetings a year which set guidelines, the 12 Federal Reserve banks operate independently and are owned privately. Specifically, they are owned by other banks, who are considered 'member banks', which amount to 40% of the banks in the US. same as other countries..
well, besides these facts, i have no idea if they are going after "world dominance". ... but you have a point with the borg idea.
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As for whether or not the banks and financiers are seeking world dominance, they don't have to. They've had it for over a century.
International politics is just a pageant to keep the people distracted, confused, and submissive.
The New World Order is not new in itself. It's been around for a long time. But it's been hidden. However, its being revealed now, little by little. World domination will be so much easier when the people realize and accept that they have no voice or rights.
The idea of immense universal debt is a step in that direction. The people have no rights because they owe money (that they never had in the first place).
Trillions of dollars flowed from corrupt government to corrupt industry and corrupt finaciers, and the people who never had anything to do with creating the debt end up paying the tab by means of lifetime "austerity" measures.
International politics is just a pageant to keep the people distracted, confused, and submissive.
The New World Order is not new in itself. It's been around for a long time. But it's been hidden. However, its being revealed now, little by little. World domination will be so much easier when the people realize and accept that they have no voice or rights.
The idea of immense universal debt is a step in that direction. The people have no rights because they owe money (that they never had in the first place).
Trillions of dollars flowed from corrupt government to corrupt industry and corrupt finaciers, and the people who never had anything to do with creating the debt end up paying the tab by means of lifetime "austerity" measures.
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Bogart_1960: debt does matter, and it is impossible to go on for long time. creating money makes money, but not value. also it means that "our gov" is not using the resources in the best way.
in a macro sense, public debt is just a "transfer of purchasing power from individuals to the government" - individuals consume less, the government consumes more. government debt is different economically from individual debt. if debt and money are created without increasing the amount of goods and services we get inflation - which is a tax on all of those who own cash and debt. total world economy is always "balanced" (unless there are alien banks that we don't know).
in a macro sense, public debt is just a "transfer of purchasing power from individuals to the government" - individuals consume less, the government consumes more. government debt is different economically from individual debt. if debt and money are created without increasing the amount of goods and services we get inflation - which is a tax on all of those who own cash and debt. total world economy is always "balanced" (unless there are alien banks that we don't know).
I hadn't really meant to say that debt does not matter - I really meant to say that with debt there are other factors to take into consideration - so that size of debt or relationship to debt can allow a country to predict how "good" or "bad" or "out of control" it is. However, a country with a positive repayment system, a healthy economic system can experience a catastrophic event or events - war, civil unrest, invasion, earthquake, flooding, hurricane, total crop loss, etc, etc and all bets are off for the repayment of debt or the financial health of the country.
and when a country gets so large, with so many people the structures it has in place can make a big debt sustainable for a long time, as long as policies are in place to make plans to pay down the debt.
Also there are so many forms of economy now especially in American that everyone is forgetting about. There is the non-profit charity world that has become BIG and the underground economy of barter and trade and off the books non taxed cash is a thriving beast.
Also the way we look at needs and wants - food, shelter, clothing is an essential need in USA, and coffee and cell phones a luxury - now coffee and cell phones seem to be essential needs - or at least peeps feel that they are not doing well if they don't have those things.
and a major shift in funding as occurred and that is the health of a nation - USA is shifting to ensure the health of the population - through the insurance marketplace - this means that those who would lose their housing to pay for a serious illness - just hoped for the best and individuals and families were swaying with the tide.
Now everyone MUST get coverage and this is an expense - which switches the funds in the economy - it is better for the physical overall health of the nation - major economic trends in nations can effect the rate of debt increases or decreases -
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Conrad73: yep,let's repeat that infamous Soviet-Experiment again!
get Bill Gates online... now!
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Bogart_1960: get Bill Gates online... now!
yep,confiscate and re-distribute all he owns!
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Conrad73: yep,confiscate and re-distribute all he owns!
he´s done that.. windows 8 now...
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