Communism... ( Archived) (32)

Jan 8, 2007 12:02 PM CST Communism...
Algarion
AlgarionAlgarionPatras, West Greece Greece183 Threads 2,961 Posts
...what do you think? Is it dangerous for humanity or is it a valid (applicable) philoshophy?
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Jan 8, 2007 12:10 PM CST Communism...
RainbowSlider
RainbowSliderRainbowSliderYellville, USA171 Threads 7,174 Posts
I think if Karl Marx could look at it from hindsight that he would say it, too is an opiate.
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Jan 8, 2007 1:20 PM CST Communism...
dbert
dbertdbertParis, Ile-de-France France29 Threads 884 Posts
Marxism is not synonymous with communism. The earliest Christian churches were communist. Many monasteries of various religions exist and have existed in essentially communist fashion. In many ways, families are communistic. A form of communism could easily be the way forward. But any system, communist or other, that turns the state into God is unquestionably wrong.
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Jan 8, 2007 3:49 PM CST Communism...
TikiGuy
TikiGuyTikiGuyWaterford, Michigan USA24 Threads 324 Posts
The free rider problem

Main article: Free rider problem
Public goods provide a very important example of market failure, in which market-like behavior of individual gain-seeking does not produce efficient results. The production of public goods results in positive externalities which are not remunerated. Because no private organisation can reap all the benefits of a public good which they have produced, there will be insufficient incentives to produce it voluntarily. Consumers can take advantage of public goods without contributing sufficiently to their creation. This is called the free rider problem, or occasionally, the "easy rider problem" (because consumer's contributions will be small but non-zero).

For example, consider national defense, a standard example of a pure public good. A purely rational person (also known as homo economicus) is an individual who is extremely individualistic, considering only those benefits and costs that directly affect him or her. Public goods give such a person incentive to be a free rider.

Suppose this purely rational person thinks about exerting some extra effort to defend the nation. The benefits to the individual of this effort would be very low, since the benefits would be distributed among all of the millions of other people in the country. Further, there is a very high possibility that he could get injured or killed during the course of his or her military service.

On the other hand, the free rider knows that he or she cannot be excluded from the benefits of national defense, regardless of whether he or she contributes to it. There is also no way that these benefits can be split up and distributed as individual parcels to people. So the free rider would not voluntarily exert any extra effort, unless there is some inherent pleasure or material reward for doing so (such as, for example, money paid by the government, as with an all-volunteer army or mercenaries).

In the case of information goods, an inventor of a new product may benefit all of society. But hardly anyone is willing to pay for the invention if they can benefit from it for free.
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Jan 8, 2007 4:26 PM CST Communism...
animica
animicaanimicaGothenburg, Vastra Gotaland Sweden21 Threads 641 Posts
My thoughts exactly. You just express them much better than I ever could, at least in English... applause

Ultimately, the egoistcal profit-based system of today, prevailing in the name of "free will", just isn't sustainable. It's defenders often claim that everybody knows exactly what they have to do to have a good quality of life (see thread called Quality of life),that it's a matter of choice. Yeah right!
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Jan 8, 2007 5:06 PM CST Communism...
TikiGuy
TikiGuyTikiGuyWaterford, Michigan USA24 Threads 324 Posts
I knew it! Look at that blond hair and pretty blue eyes, I knew you were a commie from day one!rolling on the floor laughing
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Jan 8, 2007 5:14 PM CST Communism...
animica
animicaanimicaGothenburg, Vastra Gotaland Sweden21 Threads 641 Posts
Not quite sure how to react to your comment... So maybe I should ask what you mean before I react. What DO you mean? confused
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Jan 8, 2007 5:17 PM CST Communism...
TikiGuy
TikiGuyTikiGuyWaterford, Michigan USA24 Threads 324 Posts
Nothing, I'm playing with you. tongue
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Jan 8, 2007 5:25 PM CST Communism...
animica
animicaanimicaGothenburg, Vastra Gotaland Sweden21 Threads 641 Posts
Yeah, playing it safe... Perhaps wise of you! wink

Now, to keep with the topic of the thread, any views on communism (besides what you already posted)?
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Jan 8, 2007 5:48 PM CST Communism...
Konigsberg
KonigsbergKonigsbergJurassic Park (Site B), Nova Scotia Canada57 Threads 3 Polls 8,448 Posts
Well Animica it is obvious that Sweden is the only country in EU which trying to keep population in a social system. What are your thoughts if it's really works or it would make more sense to take an another path?
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Jan 8, 2007 6:17 PM CST Communism...
TikiGuy
TikiGuyTikiGuyWaterford, Michigan USA24 Threads 324 Posts
Is sweden communist? I thought Sweden was capitalist.
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Jan 8, 2007 6:18 PM CST Communism...
TikiGuy
TikiGuyTikiGuyWaterford, Michigan USA24 Threads 324 Posts
Does everyone drive Saabs in Sweden? Saab is a damn fine automobile.
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Jan 8, 2007 6:30 PM CST Communism...
Dandelion
DandelionDandelionSouthampton, Hampshire, UK34 Threads 5,236 Posts
No, its not dangerous for humanity, it would possibly be a good thing, though I do believe our friends in the US may disagree. It seems to be something to fear? But you can't have true communism anyway, can you? Think about it............!!
Dx.wave peace
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Jan 8, 2007 6:34 PM CST Communism...
Konigsberg
KonigsbergKonigsbergJurassic Park (Site B), Nova Scotia Canada57 Threads 3 Polls 8,448 Posts
yes... Communism is a pure Utopia We were trying to creat this system in Soviet Union ... but you know what happened. sigh
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Jan 8, 2007 6:43 PM CST Communism...
Algarion
AlgarionAlgarionPatras, West Greece Greece183 Threads 2,961 Posts
But look. The communist youth of greece has a big influence in Greek Universities. They tell people things that cannot be done and the say lies to young people. When you are young...you want to do many things...Communists ask things from the ministry of education that cannot be done...They vote and close the University whenever they want. It's awfull...
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Jan 8, 2007 6:45 PM CST Communism...
TikiGuy
TikiGuyTikiGuyWaterford, Michigan USA24 Threads 324 Posts
Animica, how does a Communist or Socialist society offer a better quality of life? What Country would be an example of this?
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Jan 8, 2007 6:53 PM CST Communism...
Abracadabra
AbracadabraAbracadabraHeaven, Pennsylvania USA69 Threads 3,302 Posts
The US fears the word 'communism' because they associate it with totalitarian dictatorships of evil regimes that are out to conquer the world.

But you're right that you can't have a true communism anyway. You can't have a 'true' anything really because real life just won't lend itself to idealist perfection. Not to mention that people who seek positions of power are often greedy and have personal agendas.

Are any of the democracies in the world 'true' democracies? They are supposed to be elected officials 'serving' the best interests of the people. I haven't seen any democratic leaders behave that way yet.
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Jan 8, 2007 6:58 PM CST Communism...
Ocee35
Ocee35Ocee35Jackson, Michigan USA69 Threads 2 Polls 3,852 Posts
Communism my breed free loaders, I can't argue that,

but Capitalism breeds predators like there's no tommorrow...

full time eployees with out health coverage?
resistance to alternative fuels?
coke, meth, crack, heroin?
our toxic food suply?
the tobacco industry?

...all products of profiteering.
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Jan 8, 2007 7:02 PM CST Communism...
nfowler
nfowlernfowlernowhere, Washington USA89 Threads 2,634 Posts
communism in it's self is a valid philoshophy so is democracy however, as discussed in the thread"quality of life" greed will destroy both. Any government set into motion is subject to the will of those in charge. If their actions are in the benefit of the philoshophy then it will, chances are, work. Power corrupts and those in power are easily corrupted. Greed seeps in and it no longer is about the philoshophy but more for the wants and desire of the individual.
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Jan 8, 2007 7:05 PM CST Communism...
Konigsberg
KonigsbergKonigsbergJurassic Park (Site B), Nova Scotia Canada57 Threads 3 Polls 8,448 Posts
Hm... this is so strange.

Well ... but first could you tell me exactly what system Communism or Socialism you have in Greece?
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