Do you believe in free will ( Archived) (46)

Sep 15, 2020 5:32 AM CST Do you believe in free will
tomcatty
tomcattytomcattyCoral Bay, Paphos, Paphos Cyprus368 Threads 6 Polls 6,885 Posts
For centuries, philosophers and theologians have almost unanimously held that civilization as we know it depends on a widespread belief in free will—and that losing this belief could be calamitous. Our codes of ethics, for example, assume that we can freely choose between right and wrong. In the Christian tradition, this is known as “moral liberty”—the capacity to discern and pursue the good, instead of merely being compelled by appetites and desires. The great Enlightenment philosopher Immanuel Kant reaffirmed this link between freedom and goodness. If we are not free to choose, he argued, then it would make no sense to say we ought to choose the path of righteousness.

Today, the assumption of free will runs through every aspect of politics, from welfare provision to criminal law. It permeates the popular culture and underpins the American dream—the belief that anyone can make something of themselves no matter what their start in life. As Barack Obama wrote in The Audacity of Hope, American “values are rooted in a basic optimism about life and a faith in free will.”

So what happens if this faith erodes?

The sciences have grown steadily bolder in their claim that all human behavior can be explained through the clockwork laws of cause and effect. This shift in perception is the continuation of an intellectual revolution that began about 150 years ago, when Charles Darwin first published On the Origin of Species. Shortly after Darwin put forth his theory of evolution, his cousin Sir Francis Galton began to draw out the implications: If we have evolved, then mental faculties like intelligence must be hereditary. But we use those faculties—which some people have to a greater degree than others—to make decisions. So our ability to choose our fate is not free, but depends on our biological inheritance.
Ref Psychology

What do the members of CS believe, what do you think, are all your actions predetermined, or do YOU have free will.



I.m interested in what you have to say??????
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Sep 15, 2020 5:51 AM CST Do you believe in free will
ChesneyChrist
ChesneyChristChesneyChristManchester, Greater Manchester, England UK7,144 Posts
Honestly not really. You could lie about your favourite colour but whatever your favourite colour is it's an unalterable fact. The lie itself is not free will. It could be you all over to lie about a thing like that.
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Sep 15, 2020 5:57 AM CST Do you believe in free will
tomcatty
tomcattytomcattyCoral Bay, Paphos, Paphos Cyprus368 Threads 6 Polls 6,885 Posts
ChesneyChrist: Honestly not really. You could lie about your favourite colour but whatever your favourite colour is it's an unalterable fact. The lie itself is not free will. It could be you all over to lie about a thing like that.
You mean even if it is a lie, that in itself is predetermined, you have no choice but to lie.

What about when you meet your love, it really is written in the stars??
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Sep 15, 2020 6:14 AM CST Do you believe in free will
bodleing2
bodleing2bodleing2Manchester, Greater Manchester, England UK84 Threads 6,132 Posts
Have you been listening to Radio 4 this morning?
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Sep 15, 2020 6:23 AM CST Do you believe in free will
ChesneyChrist
ChesneyChristChesneyChristManchester, Greater Manchester, England UK7,144 Posts
And yet I favour the mysteriousness of fate over social conditioning. Nobody elects itself the will of humanity - humanity is a zoological term without real meaning - instead the world works in mysterious ways. A variety of mysterious ways.
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Sep 15, 2020 6:30 AM CST Do you believe in free will
bodleing2
bodleing2bodleing2Manchester, Greater Manchester, England UK84 Threads 6,132 Posts
A Christian has to believe in free will to validate their religion.
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Sep 15, 2020 6:30 AM CST Do you believe in free will
AI_1984
AI_1984AI_1984Pueblo del Mar, Murcia Spain12 Threads 769 Posts
Yes, of course , we have free will!

Although that most of our life is predetermined, we have choices along the way and can alter the course of our destiny.

We are, before all, Creators of our own life.head banger
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Sep 15, 2020 6:34 AM CST Do you believe in free will
AI_1984
AI_1984AI_1984Pueblo del Mar, Murcia Spain12 Threads 769 Posts
AI_1984: Yes, of course , we have free will!

Although that most of our life is predetermined, we have choices along the way and can alter the course of our destiny.

We are, before all, Creators of our own life.
By "pre-determined", I meant to say ...by US. We chose to have the experiences we're having now, when, where and with whom.
But, we can make changes along the way and take different paths.
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Sep 15, 2020 6:35 AM CST Do you believe in free will
tomcatty
tomcattytomcattyCoral Bay, Paphos, Paphos Cyprus368 Threads 6 Polls 6,885 Posts
bodleing2: A Christian has to believe in free will to validate their religion.
I agree but that doesn't make it true

Although a radio 4 follower I wasn't on today, was there a related program on??
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Sep 15, 2020 6:36 AM CST Do you believe in free will
tomcatty
tomcattytomcattyCoral Bay, Paphos, Paphos Cyprus368 Threads 6 Polls 6,885 Posts
AI_1984: By "pre-determined", I meant to say ...by US. We chose to have the experiences we're having now, when, where and with whom.
But, we can make changes along the way and take different paths.
But your decisions may be predetermined???dunno
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Sep 15, 2020 6:38 AM CST Do you believe in free will
bodleing2
bodleing2bodleing2Manchester, Greater Manchester, England UK84 Threads 6,132 Posts
tomcatty: I agree but that doesn't make it true

Although a radio 4 follower I wasn't on today, was there a related program on??
Yes, maybe you were picking it up subconsciously.without free will.

laugh
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Sep 15, 2020 6:43 AM CST Do you believe in free will
AI_1984
AI_1984AI_1984Pueblo del Mar, Murcia Spain12 Threads 769 Posts
tomcatty: But your decisions may be predetermined???
Yes, too.
In other words...your whole life script is already written and how you're going to react to certain people and circumstances.

But...we can change the whole script and our lines whenever we want providing that........
...............................
We have done a certain amount of work on ourselves and have raised our frequency high enough.
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Sep 15, 2020 6:46 AM CST Do you believe in free will
tomcatty
tomcattytomcattyCoral Bay, Paphos, Paphos Cyprus368 Threads 6 Polls 6,885 Posts
bodleing2: Yes, maybe you were picking it up subconsciously.without free will.
I'm just in phaselaugh laugh laugh laugh I am a great believer in a living planet Gaiea and think our actions concious or unconcious are at the root of Convid 19.
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Sep 15, 2020 7:01 AM CST Do you believe in free will
bodleing2
bodleing2bodleing2Manchester, Greater Manchester, England UK84 Threads 6,132 Posts
tomcatty: I'm just in phase I am a great believer in a living planet Gaiea and think our actions concious or unconcious are at the root of Convid 19.
The programme was quite interesting, maybe you can check it out on I player.
I was only part listening while doing other things. The main story was about a mathematician who towards the end of the 19th century declared that, if we knew the exact position of every electron in the universe, then there must be an equation to predict the future positions of all electrons, thereby predicting the future and proving free will doesn't exist.
The theory was validated by many leading scientists of the time, although all agreed in the theory, all also knew such a mathematical problem could never be solved.
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Sep 15, 2020 7:09 AM CST Do you believe in free will
tomcatty
tomcattytomcattyCoral Bay, Paphos, Paphos Cyprus368 Threads 6 Polls 6,885 Posts
bodleing2: The programme was quite interesting, maybe you can check it out on I player.
I was only part listening while doing other things. The main story was about a mathematician who towards the end of the 19th century declared that, if we knew the exact position of every electron in the universe, then there must be an equation to predict the future positions of all electrons, thereby predicting the future and proving free will doesn't exist.
The theory was validated by many leading scientists of the time, although all agreed in the theory, all also knew such a mathematical problem could never be solved.
Sounds like Maxwell?
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Sep 15, 2020 7:14 AM CST Do you believe in free will
bodleing2
bodleing2bodleing2Manchester, Greater Manchester, England UK84 Threads 6,132 Posts
tomcatty: Sounds like Maxwell?
Yes I think it was. thumbs up
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Sep 15, 2020 7:18 AM CST Do you believe in free will
tomcatty
tomcattytomcattyCoral Bay, Paphos, Paphos Cyprus368 Threads 6 Polls 6,885 Posts
bodleing2: Yes I think it was.
I'll check it out later, he was a brilliant man.
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Sep 15, 2020 7:28 AM CST Do you believe in free will
bodleing2
bodleing2bodleing2Manchester, Greater Manchester, England UK84 Threads 6,132 Posts
tomcatty: Sounds like Maxwell?
I was also about a scientist and mathematician around the same time who agreed with the theory but being a devout Christian was deeply troubled by it.. He realised that if we did not have free will, the main premise of Christianity (God gave us life and free will to choose what to do with it) would not make sense. In fact he spent most of his life trying to relate science to his Christian beliefs.
I could look it up and find out more but I'm on a cycle ride alongside the River Mersey and it's just too hot to sit around for long.

Not bad for mid September.
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Sep 15, 2020 7:45 AM CST Do you believe in free will
Nules
NulesNulesDublin, Ireland617 Posts
bodleing2: I was also about a scientist and mathematician around the same time who agreed with the theory but being a devout Christian was deeply troubled by it.. He realised that if we did not have free will, the main premise of Christianity (God gave us life and free will to choose what to do with it) would not make sense. In fact he spent most of his life trying to relate science to his Christian beliefs.
I could look it up and find out more but I'm on a cycle ride alongside the River Mersey and it's just too hot to sit around for long.

Not bad for mid September.
on yer bike Misterwave
I am just an ordinary lass, but I feel my opinion to free will changed over time, with my life experiences and what I was taught growing up as a catholic, I started to question where did my free will begin and where did I allow others influence my free will.
Life did throw me some hard curves but I dealt with them as I thought was right.
I taught my children to never judge others or never do to anyone what they wouldn’t like done to them! But also to grow as independent people and go into the big world to make a change for the better not for profit!
Free will is something we all have but unfortunately some don’t know how to use.
Just my little opinion hug teddybear yay
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Sep 15, 2020 7:52 AM CST Do you believe in free will
tomcatty
tomcattytomcattyCoral Bay, Paphos, Paphos Cyprus368 Threads 6 Polls 6,885 Posts
bodleing2: I was also about a scientist and mathematician around the same time who agreed with the theory but being a devout Christian was deeply troubled by it.. He realised that if we did not have free will, the main premise of Christianity (God gave us life and free will to choose what to do with it) would not make sense. In fact he spent most of his life trying to relate science to his Christian beliefs.
I could look it up and find out more but I'm on a cycle ride alongside the River Mersey and it's just too hot to sit around for long.


Not bad for mid September.
Well I suppose if we have no free will, he would have to have Christianity and believe in it.

Have a nice cycle ridelaugh laugh laugh
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