History Questions ( Archived) (17)

Oct 6, 2007 5:37 PM CST History Questions
jm0405
jm0405jm0405Cincinnati, USA2 Threads 71 Posts
I have been trying to find this answer all summer and I have not found one that makes sense. I have only found vague statements and ambiguity. I was taking a history class and I was reading books on WW2. US had the ability to bomb the railroad tracks to stop the trains from going into concentration camps. Why didn't we do that? What happened? Every possibility I came up with, fell short. The trains moved at night - Ok...bomb the tracks in the daytime when you can see the target and you wouldn't do it at night cause you don't want to blow up the trains carrying people, but you could destroy the tracks to stop the train. That thought went circular...back to starting point. Germans fled Germany, went to Canada and the US...and they didn't just mention it to somebody? It's not like gossip is a new concept! Through the course of time, people talk. If US didn't hear it on the radio, ask your neighbor! Again, circular thought - How is it we couldn't have known?

Post WW2, I did not know until Mel Gibson spouted off in a bar that he was raised believing The Holocaust did not exist. PEOPLE THINK THAT??? I researched it a little bit, but it did not make sense then or the other day with the Iranian guy here in the US at Columbia University who said the same thing. Maybe I am too analytical but the concentration camps exist and that is proof in and of itself. What about the material things buried? The hiding places in people's homes? On Oprah, she took a tour through Auschwitz where there were rooms full of hair and shoes. So there is proof it happened. Physical proof - not just assumption. How do people deny and/or misplace 6 million people in theory? How is it Holocaust did not happen or people are denying it happened?

For all you scholars out there, thank you for any input! This has perplexed me all summer long!
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Oct 6, 2007 5:57 PM CST History Questions
trish123
trish123trish123Macclesfield, Cheshire, England UK177 Threads 4 Polls 13,724 Posts
wikipedia is always a good place to start with this kind of thing, very informative and it also gives links.

google the following - Flight and expulsion of Germans during and after WWII

Good luck - Trish wave
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Oct 6, 2007 6:18 PM CST History Questions
jimbhoy
jimbhoyjimbhoyHamilton, Strathclyde, Scotland UK80 Threads 2 Polls 4,142 Posts
The holocaust did happen, why it wasn't stopped nobody can be sure,





The US couldn't bomb the trains or tracks day or night, they tried but just like thier modern day pilots they hit the wrong target and killed thier allies so thats one reason.
I lost a few friend during Desert Storm through it and they gave the pilots medals for doing itthumbs down devil frustrated frustrated

Nobody ever learns from history...... the same mistakes keep happening
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Oct 6, 2007 6:23 PM CST History Questions
mastic55
mastic55mastic55Long Island, New York USA167 Threads 6,859 Posts
If they blew up the tracks , the people would have been gassed or lined up and shot.
A lot of American service men did not know about the camps till the end of the war and the ones who seen it first hand.
I like Mel but he is an a**hole if he thinks it did not happen.
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Oct 6, 2007 6:23 PM CST History Questions
Plainfieldguy
PlainfieldguyPlainfieldguyplainfield, Indiana USA13 Threads 984 Posts
Evil flourishes when good men do nothing.



.........and, I have no idea why it would be a sensitive topic.....???


.........and the closing thought.... "those who forget history are doomed to repeat it"
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Oct 7, 2007 3:50 AM CST History Questions
jm0405
jm0405jm0405Cincinnati, USA2 Threads 71 Posts
I don't believe I was stirring up anything in a negative fashion like Mystical believes I am. I feel it would be foolish not to ask - like one of you said, if we don't realize, think and ask, history will repeat itself. Nobody wants that.

Mel Gibson - He was an idiot in a bar spouting off. I lost a lot of respect for him over his antisemitic remarks. It was on CNN or his biography on IMDB.com that his father raised him and his siblings as Catholics who denied the Holocaust period - never happened. I didn't know until that moment that it was ever denied! I mean I freak when I lose my keys. I cannot imagine losing 6 million people - OOPS - never happened! Wikipedia was extremely vague, as was History Channel.

Troops did not know. That is scary in and of itself in that a country got away with it - That level of sneaky is truly frightening and one can only hope that this page of history NEVER repeats itself!
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Oct 7, 2007 3:51 AM CST History Questions
jm0405
jm0405jm0405Cincinnati, USA2 Threads 71 Posts
Trish..great Google - Thank you!
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Oct 7, 2007 3:54 AM CST History Questions
jm0405
jm0405jm0405Cincinnati, USA2 Threads 71 Posts
Hitting the wrong target - Ok...that makes sense. Attempts were made, just unsuccessfully. Now I am getting somewhere! US is so intrusive - in everybody's country - it just seemed so unlike us to ignore the situation in Europe during the war. Appeared out of character.
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Oct 8, 2007 4:49 AM CST History Questions
skimpydoo
skimpydooskimpydooDublin, Ireland170 Threads 3 Polls 4,805 Posts
I have seen the Holocaust museum in Israel. I saw it when I was 11 years of old and that really shocked me. Once you have seen it or one of the concentration camps you know that the Holocaust did exist.
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Oct 8, 2007 4:53 AM CST History Questions
sdubauvoir
sdubauvoirsdubauvoirHamburg, Germany5 Threads 20 Posts
I saw a documentary on TV which showed that the allied new the exact location of Aushwitz. Because the camp was located near a bomb factory. One day they had to bomb that factory and reconnaissnce planes took pictures and some of the pictures showed Aushwitz in details. The allied decided to let it go and concentrate on the factory.
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Oct 8, 2007 5:16 AM CST History Questions
trish123
trish123trish123Macclesfield, Cheshire, England UK177 Threads 4 Polls 13,724 Posts
Heck Skimpy, was that traumatic for you ?

Much of this stuff was still under the official secrets act when I was at school - I left at the the age of 15 in 1969, pretty well versed in the Romans and Greeks etc but of modern history I knew nothing much.

When I started looking into all this for myself I found it most heartbreaking - mans inhumanity to man - sort of thing, it left me pretty traumatised and I was around 20 by this time.

I dont think the warnings inherrent in all of this are particularly releveant or undicative of any particular nation but rather of how cruel people can be to each other when they are only considering their own interests.
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Oct 8, 2007 5:31 AM CST History Questions
skimpydoo
skimpydooskimpydooDublin, Ireland170 Threads 3 Polls 4,805 Posts
Trish not traumatic but it opened me eyes a bit. I had also started stamp collecting and on the same trip I went into a stamp shop and bought some Olympic stamps. I was mad when I saw later that I was given birds and flowers stamps. It wasn't until a few years later when I first heard about the Munich Olympics that I realised why I never got the Olympic Stamps.

I was also in Hiroshma just 4 days before the 40th anniversary and that was a big eye opener to. Shocking to see at first hand what a Nuclear weapon can do.
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Oct 8, 2007 5:46 AM CST History Questions
trish123
trish123trish123Macclesfield, Cheshire, England UK177 Threads 4 Polls 13,724 Posts
oops - I meant *indicative roll eyes


Yes, Hiroshima was a bit of a shocker for me too when I found out about it - in a way, I am glad that I was protected from all of this in my childhood but that doesnt imply that I think children should be protected thus. When I did start to explore all these atrocities I was quickly running down the road of discovering cause and effect - that journey has served me well.

By the time my own children were at school they commonly were doing projects on such issues - what are the words........... Lest We Forget.............
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Oct 8, 2007 6:12 AM CST History Questions
Mysticalguy
MysticalguyMysticalguyEvansville, USA38 Threads 1,164 Posts
Thanks for putting it all in perspective thumbs up
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Oct 8, 2007 6:57 AM CST History Questions
jstreet610
jstreet610jstreet610Benton Harbor, Michigan USA9 Threads 135 Posts
I think it is awfull that the U.S. chose to stay out of the war for as long as it did. The war was raging for years before we got involved. If it wasn't for Japan bombing Pearl Harbor we may never have entered the war.

Secondly, many people also don't know that we had our own camps here in the States. True we weren't killing people, but we did round up Germans, Italians and Japanese in our country and lock them away.
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Oct 8, 2007 8:07 AM CST History Questions
trish123
trish123trish123Macclesfield, Cheshire, England UK177 Threads 4 Polls 13,724 Posts
I dont think they did stay out till after Pearl Harbour. There are many theories surrounding this period. The lend lease act for one was started long (almost a year) before Pearl Harbour.
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Oct 8, 2007 8:25 AM CST History Questions
omkeerpunt
omkeerpuntomkeerpuntBenoni, Gauteng South Africa1 Threads 268 Posts
Correct. The US government was acting and was already building up an intelligence organisation closely linked with that of the British and was supplying gear through the lend lease program - mostly to Russia. The problem was not with your leadership who mostly understood the need to get involved but with the people who did not see this as their problem untill it became their problem.

The government had to walk a political tight rope around this question - from there springs one of the conspiracy theories that the president was aware of the imminence of the Pearl Harbour bombings but allowed it to happen to rally support for his plans - but that is the topic of some other thread.
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