Economy of Abundance (28)
i saw "economy" in the first line and gave up reading further
tonight i am too romantic for posting on such a thread
(and still posted haha)
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Its a bit crazy to say the least - businesses talk money in telephone number terms, they amass profits and the person on the street is at a loss for how to afford the petrol to get to work so they can feed their families - are we actually being faced with the realities of a profit driven system here?
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trish123: Its a bit crazy to say the least - businesses talk money in telephone number terms, they amass profits and the person on the street is at a loss for how to afford the petrol to get to work so they can feed their families - are we actually being faced with the realities of a profit driven system here?
It's not just profit driven, it's short term thinking.
What happens when all the oil is gone? Or might as well be?
We can use solar power to hydrolyze water into H2 and O2, and the hydrogen to drive internal combustion, that in turn, via oxidation, turns H2 back into H2O. This is just one example. Biodiesel is another. Why do we continue to buy into the paradigm of scarcity?
As you know, trish, you're either on the bus, or off the bus, and my bus will use french fry grease for fuel.
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trish123: Its a bit crazy to say the least - businesses talk money in telephone number terms, they amass profits and the person on the street is at a loss for how to afford the petrol to get to work so they can feed their families - are we actually being faced with the realities of a profit driven system here?
Hey trish
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Galactic_bodhi: Complaining about illegals is not a solution darling. I understand your frustration, but between our vote and the dollars in our pocket, we have a lot more power for positive change than we realize.
We vote everytime we buy something, without even realizing it. When you buy at Walmart for instance, you're voting to support volume-distribution rather than boutique market models. Small business is the back-bone of a strong national economy. When multi-nationals become our largest suppliers, necessarily does the emphasis lie less on the people of America, and more on what country can supply the most goods, cheapest to these volume distributors.
You either play their game, or you make a new playing field. The current playing field is weighted legally against the interests of American citizens...
We vote everytime we buy something, without even realizing it. When you buy at Walmart for instance, you're voting to support volume-distribution rather than boutique market models. Small business is the back-bone of a strong national economy. When multi-nationals become our largest suppliers, necessarily does the emphasis lie less on the people of America, and more on what country can supply the most goods, cheapest to these volume distributors.
You either play their game, or you make a new playing field. The current playing field is weighted legally against the interests of American citizens...
The playing field is weighted very much in favour of which type of transport you may be on to get there (
) if you are on the gravy train then its great but getting onto it has many hazards, they have guards on the doors who do their best to kick off all boarders - those of us on the cross country bus may observe the shenanigins but there aint really much we can do to change things sadly - not till more of us get pi**ed off enough anyway.......------ This thread is Archived ------
bob1959: Hey trish
Hey Bob
I hope alls well in your world 
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Galactic_bodhi: It's not just profit driven, it's short term thinking.
What happens when all the oil is gone? Or might as well be?
We can use solar power to hydrolyze water into H2 and O2, and the hydrogen to drive internal combustion, that in turn, via oxidation, turns H2 back into H2O. This is just one example. Biodiesel is another. Why do we continue to buy into the paradigm of scarcity?
As you know, trish, you're either on the bus, or off the bus, and my bus will use french fry grease for fuel.
What happens when all the oil is gone? Or might as well be?
We can use solar power to hydrolyze water into H2 and O2, and the hydrogen to drive internal combustion, that in turn, via oxidation, turns H2 back into H2O. This is just one example. Biodiesel is another. Why do we continue to buy into the paradigm of scarcity?
As you know, trish, you're either on the bus, or off the bus, and my bus will use french fry grease for fuel.
At the grand old age of 54 I am finally faced with the necessity of getting a car but Im frantically thinking of alternatives - I dont want to be driving, I dont want to be that much a part of the rat race - driving a car is something which so many people take for granted, I see this often in the people around me - I watch my friends driving to the corner shop when its only 5 mins to walk there, I see them getting unhealthy cos they never walk - I hear them complaining that everythings so expensive, I hate to shop at supermarkets cos everything is so bloody conveniently packaged but I see these people doing a daily stop off at these places in their cars - and I simply see a mass of victims - they have all chosen to opt into the lifestyles - no, actually, Im wrong on that - they dont choose the bloody well get sucked in............
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trish123: The playing field is weighted very much in favour of which type of transport you may be on to get there ( ) if you are on the gravy train then its great but getting onto it has many hazards, they have guards on the doors who do their best to kick off all boarders - those of us on the cross country bus may observe the shenanigins but there aint really much we can do to change things sadly - not till more of us get pi**ed off enough anyway.......
Food goes to waste because we don't have the gas to transport it to where its needed...
When people are starving, then they'll get pissed. The food is there, there's a stranglehold on the methods of transport. Until we kill the oil monopoly, there will be no positive change. And they won't relinquish the power willingly until they've made every single dollar they can squeeze out of us.
Wouldn't it be nice if they were squeezing a stinging jellyfish, instead of a sponge?
The sting is in how you spend your money, and who you listen to in defining your reality...
Paradigms are never shifted by the people in power. It's always the have-nots that push the pendelum...
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Galactic_bodhi: Food goes to waste because we don't have the gas to transport it to where its needed...
When people are starving, then they'll get pissed. The food is there, there's a stranglehold on the methods of transport. Until we kill the oil monopoly, there will be no positive change. And they won't relinquish the power willingly until they've made every single dollar they can squeeze out of us.
Wouldn't it be nice if they were squeezing a stinging jellyfish, instead of a sponge?
The sting is in how you spend your money, and who you listen to in defining your reality...
Paradigms are never shifted by the people in power. It's always the have-nots that push the pendelum...
When people are starving, then they'll get pissed. The food is there, there's a stranglehold on the methods of transport. Until we kill the oil monopoly, there will be no positive change. And they won't relinquish the power willingly until they've made every single dollar they can squeeze out of us.
Wouldn't it be nice if they were squeezing a stinging jellyfish, instead of a sponge?
The sting is in how you spend your money, and who you listen to in defining your reality...
Paradigms are never shifted by the people in power. It's always the have-nots that push the pendelum...
I agree, and the coming winter, when people cant afford to eat their homes will compound these issues. Food and fuel are basics and while we are struggling to afford these, the multi nationals make a mockery of our struggles with their multi billion profits - they are running the show for their own nefarious ends and reaping the rewards of our labours - I wish people would wake up........... and, its somewhat counterproductive yet, does take the attention off them, when people go on about 'illegals' or in the case of this country, 'immigrants' - when will folks realise that the stuff the media present is so very corrupt.........
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hahaha - not, dont go eating yr houses, I meant *heat
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I think wil still have a good life in our industrial countries. We have a life which is to good... yes, we are all angry about high gas-prices or food-prices, but we are still paiing for these things, doesnt matter what it coasts. We are to comfortable in our own little world to change something... We all have our luxeries... and the only thing why we are moaning is,that we can lost a few of our benefits.
Most of us are to " good" to walk 5 minutes or some of us say that they havent the time to walk to the market... but wha did you lost? drive 1 Minute with the car or walk 10 Minutes ang meet ppl and see the world...
Our time is to frantic and to much self-orientated. Nobody will provide something to an other... only they have a advantage from this provide.
Yes all is getting higher in the price... but what did we lose in relation to other ppl in this world?
Of course our govourments are corupt and "little ppl or workers " have nothing to say... but we have still our appartments, our foods, our tv, our cars, our playstations, our expensive hairdresser our marche waer, our McDonals etc... we all have a good life...
for the gas, we are paying 1,60€ for a liter , its ca 7,50$ -8 for a gallon, and all are still driving with the car.. why? Because they have still the money... of course they cant fly 2 times a yoea in hollidays or cant by the newest TV or cellphone... but they have enough money for food and for energy and appartment and for the gas..
nobody will take the bus or train, because they want wait 30 minutes to the bus....
Most of us are to " good" to walk 5 minutes or some of us say that they havent the time to walk to the market... but wha did you lost? drive 1 Minute with the car or walk 10 Minutes ang meet ppl and see the world...
Our time is to frantic and to much self-orientated. Nobody will provide something to an other... only they have a advantage from this provide.
Yes all is getting higher in the price... but what did we lose in relation to other ppl in this world?
Of course our govourments are corupt and "little ppl or workers " have nothing to say... but we have still our appartments, our foods, our tv, our cars, our playstations, our expensive hairdresser our marche waer, our McDonals etc... we all have a good life...
for the gas, we are paying 1,60€ for a liter , its ca 7,50$ -8 for a gallon, and all are still driving with the car.. why? Because they have still the money... of course they cant fly 2 times a yoea in hollidays or cant by the newest TV or cellphone... but they have enough money for food and for energy and appartment and for the gas..
nobody will take the bus or train, because they want wait 30 minutes to the bus....
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Fellfrosch: I think wil still have a good life in our industrial countries. We have a life which is to good... yes, we are all angry about high gas-prices or food-prices, but we are still paiing for these things, doesnt matter what it coasts. We are to comfortable in our own little world to change something... We all have our luxeries... and the only thing why we are moaning is,that we can lost a few of our benefits.
Most of us are to " good" to walk 5 minutes or some of us say that they havent the time to walk to the market... but wha did you lost? drive 1 Minute with the car or walk 10 Minutes ang meet ppl and see the world...
Our time is to frantic and to much self-orientated. Nobody will provide something to an other... only they have a advantage from this provide.
Yes all is getting higher in the price... but what did we lose in relation to other ppl in this world?
Of course our govourments are corupt and "little ppl or workers " have nothing to say... but we have still our appartments, our foods, our tv, our cars, our playstations, our expensive hairdresser our marche waer, our McDonals etc... we all have a good life...
for the gas, we are paying 1,60€ for a liter , its ca 7,50$ -8 for a gallon, and all are still driving with the car.. why? Because they have still the money... of course they cant fly 2 times a yoea in hollidays or cant by the newest TV or cellphone... but they have enough money for food and for energy and appartment and for the gas..
nobody will take the bus or train, because they want wait 30 minutes to the bus....
Most of us are to " good" to walk 5 minutes or some of us say that they havent the time to walk to the market... but wha did you lost? drive 1 Minute with the car or walk 10 Minutes ang meet ppl and see the world...
Our time is to frantic and to much self-orientated. Nobody will provide something to an other... only they have a advantage from this provide.
Yes all is getting higher in the price... but what did we lose in relation to other ppl in this world?
Of course our govourments are corupt and "little ppl or workers " have nothing to say... but we have still our appartments, our foods, our tv, our cars, our playstations, our expensive hairdresser our marche waer, our McDonals etc... we all have a good life...
for the gas, we are paying 1,60€ for a liter , its ca 7,50$ -8 for a gallon, and all are still driving with the car.. why? Because they have still the money... of course they cant fly 2 times a yoea in hollidays or cant by the newest TV or cellphone... but they have enough money for food and for energy and appartment and for the gas..
nobody will take the bus or train, because they want wait 30 minutes to the bus....
This awareness is exactly what I'm talking about.
Waiting 30 minutes for the bus is a heck of a lot better than taking half a day to ride there on a horse. And the complacency your describing is exactly what will land us back in the world of animal husbandry, because we didn't think ahead.
Short-term thinking or not thinking at all...
When will humanity finally learn?
I think it will be about Dec. 21st, 2012...
Not the end of the world necessarily, but the end of a paradigm, for sure...
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"Kirk to Enterprize how we doing for Lythium Crystals Galactic?"
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Galactic_bodhi: Food goes to waste because we don't have the gas to transport it to where its needed...
When people are starving, then they'll get pissed. The food is there, there's a stranglehold on the methods of transport. Until we kill the oil monopoly, there will be no positive change. And they won't relinquish the power willingly until they've made every single dollar they can squeeze out of us.
Wouldn't it be nice if they were squeezing a stinging jellyfish, instead of a sponge?
The sting is in how you spend your money, and who you listen to in defining your reality...
Paradigms are never shifted by the people in power. It's always the have-nots that push the pendelum...
When people are starving, then they'll get pissed. The food is there, there's a stranglehold on the methods of transport. Until we kill the oil monopoly, there will be no positive change. And they won't relinquish the power willingly until they've made every single dollar they can squeeze out of us.
Wouldn't it be nice if they were squeezing a stinging jellyfish, instead of a sponge?
The sting is in how you spend your money, and who you listen to in defining your reality...
Paradigms are never shifted by the people in power. It's always the have-nots that push the pendelum...
The other thing is that the food distribution has been taken over by the multinationals too - whole areas dedicated to the production of a particular type of foodstuff means that it is dependent on transport for distribution - the food issue is very corrupt, crops rot in fields, food mountains halt the natural flow of things which are beneficial to our mutual wellbeing - it has all become an issue of finances and humanity, kindness etc, feeding the world have somehow been relegated to the area of amusement - the whole thing is so obviously media driven........
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SatelliteServer: "Kirk to Enterprize how we doing for Lythium Crystals Galactic?"
We're waiting for the solar generator to come online, Cap'n. Then we can recharge the dilithium crystals...
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trish123: The other thing is that the food distribution has been taken over by the multinationals too - whole areas dedicated to the production of a particular type of foodstuff means that it is dependent on transport for distribution - the food issue is very corrupt, crops rot in fields, food mountains halt the natural flow of things which are beneficial to our mutual wellbeing - it has all become an issue of finances and humanity, kindness etc, feeding the world have somehow been relegated to the area of amusement - the whole thing is so obviously media driven........
Then there are companies like Monsanto, that say they want to use science to create Abundance, but really what they want is a monopoly on food production.
Nothing scarier to me than a single corporation controlling what I eat, and what I have to give in order to eat...
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Fellfrosch: I think wil still have a good life in our industrial countries. We have a life which is to good... yes, we are all angry about high gas-prices or food-prices, but we are still paiing for these things, doesnt matter what it coasts. We are to comfortable in our own little world to change something... We all have our luxeries... and the only thing why we are moaning is,that we can lost a few of our benefits.
Most of us are to " good" to walk 5 minutes or some of us say that they havent the time to walk to the market... but wha did you lost? drive 1 Minute with the car or walk 10 Minutes ang meet ppl and see the world...
Our time is to frantic and to much self-orientated. Nobody will provide something to an other... only they have a advantage from this provide.
Yes all is getting higher in the price... but what did we lose in relation to other ppl in this world?
Of course our govourments are corupt and "little ppl or workers " have nothing to say... but we have still our appartments, our foods, our tv, our cars, our playstations, our expensive hairdresser our marche waer, our McDonals etc... we all have a good life...
for the gas, we are paying 1,60€ for a liter , its ca 7,50$ -8 for a gallon, and all are still driving with the car.. why? Because they have still the money... of course they cant fly 2 times a yoea in hollidays or cant by the newest TV or cellphone... but they have enough money for food and for energy and appartment and for the gas..
nobody will take the bus or train, because they want wait 30 minutes to the bus....
Most of us are to " good" to walk 5 minutes or some of us say that they havent the time to walk to the market... but wha did you lost? drive 1 Minute with the car or walk 10 Minutes ang meet ppl and see the world...
Our time is to frantic and to much self-orientated. Nobody will provide something to an other... only they have a advantage from this provide.
Yes all is getting higher in the price... but what did we lose in relation to other ppl in this world?
Of course our govourments are corupt and "little ppl or workers " have nothing to say... but we have still our appartments, our foods, our tv, our cars, our playstations, our expensive hairdresser our marche waer, our McDonals etc... we all have a good life...
for the gas, we are paying 1,60€ for a liter , its ca 7,50$ -8 for a gallon, and all are still driving with the car.. why? Because they have still the money... of course they cant fly 2 times a yoea in hollidays or cant by the newest TV or cellphone... but they have enough money for food and for energy and appartment and for the gas..
nobody will take the bus or train, because they want wait 30 minutes to the bus....
I catch buses and trains all the time - I meet some amazing people on my journeys too, its wonderful to chat with a person who I will probably never meet again and would probably never have met if I had insulated myself in the cocoon which I see surrounding the people who never take such wonderful opportunities to see life outside of their own bubbles.
What really gets to me is the way that people are driven to be callous, they have to make a living and to keep up with the rising costs, they are driven to increasing their methods of profit - i think this is really sad and indicative of a society which has sold its principles to the highest bidder.........
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"We are on the cusp of a new era that has the potential to be an era of abundance. In the coming decades, molecular manufacturing will be a reality. The Nanotechnology Glossary3 defines molecular manufacturing as "the automated building of products from the bottom up, molecule by molecule, with atomic precision. This will make products that are extremely lightweight, flexible, durable, and potentially very 'smart'." And cheap. Just as Apple enabled personal publishing by marrying the Postscript language with the Macintosh interface and an inexpensive LaserWriter printer, so will the coupling of molecular manufacturing with appropriate programming tools bring about a revolution we might call "personal manufacturing." Such personal nanofactories (PNs) already have been envisioned and are likely to be similar in look and ease of use to a printer or microwave oven. Indeed, an artist's conception can be seen at
The advent of PNs should bring the cost of most nonfood necessities to near zero. Much of the raw material for most objects we commonly use can be found in air and dirt, with a few fortified materials thrown in. If we build things from the molecules up (and conversely, break things down into their component molecules for reuse), materials cost will nearly disappear. Information would then become the most expensive resource. Meanwhile, computing power—information management—continues to expand exponentially even as its cost drops precipitously. Furthermore, as true artificial intelligence (AI) approaches, computers will become self-programming, and information cost may drop even more dramatically. It's already happening. Today, most of our products contain greater and greater information content (technology) at lesser and lesser cost. It appears that even food eventually could be manufactured on the kitchen countertop personal at practically no materials cost.
However, if history is a guide, the "haves" will always want to have more and the "havenots" will end up getting relatively less. That is the way many people keep score—as the bumper sticker wisdom goes, "He who dies with the most toys wins." It's not just a silly ditty. It is a frank statement of the mindset of many individuals. And it is the "haves" that possess easy access to the levers of power and legislation. In a system based on scarcity, those holding the levers of production will not easily give them up. In domestic and international markets based on scarcity, the function and responsibility of directors and officers is to maximize shareholder value—at nearly any cost that does not fall afoul of laws, or at least not so far afoul that the penalties exceed the financial gain resulting from illegal actions."-The (Needed) New Economics of Abundance by Steve Burgess
The advent of PNs should bring the cost of most nonfood necessities to near zero. Much of the raw material for most objects we commonly use can be found in air and dirt, with a few fortified materials thrown in. If we build things from the molecules up (and conversely, break things down into their component molecules for reuse), materials cost will nearly disappear. Information would then become the most expensive resource. Meanwhile, computing power—information management—continues to expand exponentially even as its cost drops precipitously. Furthermore, as true artificial intelligence (AI) approaches, computers will become self-programming, and information cost may drop even more dramatically. It's already happening. Today, most of our products contain greater and greater information content (technology) at lesser and lesser cost. It appears that even food eventually could be manufactured on the kitchen countertop personal at practically no materials cost.
However, if history is a guide, the "haves" will always want to have more and the "havenots" will end up getting relatively less. That is the way many people keep score—as the bumper sticker wisdom goes, "He who dies with the most toys wins." It's not just a silly ditty. It is a frank statement of the mindset of many individuals. And it is the "haves" that possess easy access to the levers of power and legislation. In a system based on scarcity, those holding the levers of production will not easily give them up. In domestic and international markets based on scarcity, the function and responsibility of directors and officers is to maximize shareholder value—at nearly any cost that does not fall afoul of laws, or at least not so far afoul that the penalties exceed the financial gain resulting from illegal actions."-The (Needed) New Economics of Abundance by Steve Burgess
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Galactic_bodhi:
Fostering dependence is the first step in murdering independent thought.
Fostering dependence is the first step in murdering independent thought.
Yes, exactly and this is how the whole system is run - the advertising industry is one thing but, people manipulation is an entirely different other thing.................
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That's the problem with vicious circles, we end up just going in circles.
And here's the root of all our money problems. We've been convinced by the "haves" that economics derives from one principle: Scarcity.
But the fact is, resources are all around us, abundant and renewable. Water is 50% hydrogen, and hydrogen is one of the most basic fuels in the universe. Life wouldn't exist without solar fusion, and the Earth's surface is 75% water.
This is just one example of the abundance of energy all around us in many diverse form. And yet, people starve, live in huts, and die of diseases otherwise curable, but they're too poor to afford the cure. The human condition is largely created by the propaganda of one set of the population brain-washing another set that this is the way things have to be. But this isn't truth.
It's the truth they want us to believe.
Herein, I would like to start a dialogue to find actual, implementable processes and procedures to free humanity from itself, and enter a new age dominated not by a mind-set of scarcity, but one of abundance.
Simple? Not so...
But, I think, worthwhile...
The floor is now yours to present any ideas or comments you may have on this subject.