The Stuff Your Church Never Tells You About........... ( Archived) (207)

Nov 16, 2008 1:46 PM CST The Stuff Your Church Never Tells You About...........
BarrenPneuma
BarrenPneumaBarrenPneumaGolden Staircase, Ontario Canada87 Threads 3 Polls 1,561 Posts
HISTORICAL DOCUMENTS ABOUT JESUS
The historicity of Alexander the Great and his military conquests is drawn from five ancient sources, none of whom were eyewitnesses. Although written 400 years after Alexander, Plutarch’s Life of Alexander is the primary account of his life.
Since Plutarch and the other writers were several hundred years removed from the events of Alexander’s life, they based their information on prior accounts. Of the twenty contemporary historical accounts on Alexander, not one survives. Later accounts exist, but each presents a different “Alexander,” with much left to our imagination. But regardless of the time gap of several hundred years, historians are convinced that Alexander was a real man and that the essential details of what we read about his life are true.
Keeping Alexander as a reference point, we’ll note that for Jesus there are both religious and secular historical accounts. But we must ask the question, were they written by reliable and objective historians? Let’s take a brief look.

THE NEW TESTAMENT
The 27 New Testament books claim to be written by authors who either knew Jesus or received firsthand knowledge of him from others. The four Gospel accounts record Jesus’ life and words from different perspectives. These accounts have been heavily scrutinized by scholars both inside Christianity and outside it.
Scholar John Dominic Crossan believes that less than 20 percent of what we read in the Gospels are original sayings of Jesus. Yet even this skeptic doesn’t dispute that Jesus Christ really lived.
In spite of Crossan’s views, and those of a few other fringe scholars like him, the consensus of most historians is that the Gospel accounts give us a clear picture of Jesus Christ. Whether the New Testament accounts are trustworthy is the subject of another article so we will look to non-Christian sources for our answer as to whether Jesus existed.

EARLY NON-CHRISTIAN ACCOUNTS
So, which first-century historians who wrote of Jesus did not have a Christian agenda? First of all, let’s look to Jesus’ enemies.
His Jewish opponents had the most to gain by denying Jesus’ existence. But the evidence points in the opposite direction. “Several Jewish writings also tell of His flesh-and-blood existence. Both Gemaras of the Jewish Talmud refer to Jesus. Although these consist of only a few brief, bitter passages intended to discount Jesus’ deity, these very early Jewish writings don’t begin to hint that he was not a historical person.”
Flavius Josephus was a noted Jewish historian who began writing under Roman authority in a.d. 67. Josephus, who was born just a few years after Jesus died, would have been keenly aware of Jesus’ reputation among both Romans and Jews. In his famous Antiquities of the Jews (a.d. 93), Josephus wrote of Jesus as a real person. “At that time lived Jesus, a holy man, if man he may be called, for he performed wonderful works, and taught men, and joyfully received the truth. And he was followed by many Jews and many Greeks. He was the Messiah.” Although there is dispute about some of the wording in the account, especially the reference to Jesus being the Messiah (scholars are skeptical, thinking that Christians inserted this phrase), certainly Josephus confirmed his existence.

(con't)
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Nov 16, 2008 1:47 PM CST The Stuff Your Church Never Tells You About...........
BarrenPneuma
BarrenPneumaBarrenPneumaGolden Staircase, Ontario Canada87 Threads 3 Polls 1,561 Posts
What about secular historians—those who lived in ancient times but weren’t religiously motivated? There is current confirmation of at least 19 early secular writers who made references to Jesus as a real person.
One of antiquity’s greatest historians, Cornelius Tacitus, affirmed that Jesus had suffered under Pilate. Tacitus was born around 25 years after Jesus died, and he had seen the spread of Christianity begin to impact Rome. The Roman historian wrote negatively of Christ and Christians, identifying them in a.d. 115 as “a race of men detested for their evil practices, and commonly called Chrestiani. The name was derived from Chrestus, who, in the reign of Tiberius, suffered under Pontius Pilate, Procurator of Judea.”

The following facts about Jesus were written by early non-Christian sources:
• Jesus was from Nazareth.
• Jesus lived a wise and virtuous life.
• Jesus was crucified in Palestine under Pontius Pilate during the reign of Tiberius Caesar at Passover time, being considered the Jewish king.
• Jesus was believed by his disciples to have died and risen from the dead three days later.
• Jesus’ enemies acknowledged that he performed unusual feats they called “sorcery.”
• Jesus’ small band of disciples multiplied rapidly, spreading as far as Rome.
• Jesus’ disciples denied polytheism, lived moral lives, and worshiped Christ as God.
Theologian Norman Geisler remarked, “This general outline is perfectly congruent with that of the New Testament.” All of these independent accounts, religious and secular, speak of a real man who matches up well with the Jesus in the Gospels. Encyclopedia Britannica cites these various secular accounts of Jesus’ life as convincing proof of his existence. “These independent accounts prove that in ancient times even the opponents of Christianity never doubted the historicity of Jesus.”

HISTORICAL IMPACT

An important distinction between a myth and a real person is how the figure impacts history. For example, the Olympic Games originated on Mount Olympus in Greece, home of the temple of the Greek god Zeus. But Zeus has not changed governments, laws, or ethics.

The historian Thomas Carlyle said, “No great man lives in vain. The history of the world is but the biography of great men.” As Carlyle notes, it is real people, not myths, who impact history.

As a real person, Alexander impacted history by his military conquests, altering nations, governments, and laws. But what of Jesus Christ and his impact on our world?

The first-century governments of Israel and Rome were largely untouched by Jesus’ life. The average Roman citizen didn’t know he existed until many years after his death, Roman culture remained largely aloof from his teaching for decades, and it would be several centuries before killing Christians in the coliseum became a national pastime. The rest of the world had little if any knowledge of him. Jesus marshalled no army. He didn’t write a book or change any laws. The Jewish leaders hoped to wipe out his memory, and it appeared they would succeed.

Today, however, ancient Rome lies in ruins. Caesar’s mighty legions and the pomp of Roman imperial power have faded into oblivion. Yet how is Jesus remembered today? What is his enduring influence?

(con't)
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Nov 16, 2008 1:49 PM CST The Stuff Your Church Never Tells You About...........
BarrenPneuma
BarrenPneumaBarrenPneumaGolden Staircase, Ontario Canada87 Threads 3 Polls 1,561 Posts
Archaeologists in 1962 confirmed Pilate’s existence when they discovered his name included in an inscription on an excavated stone. Likewise, the existence of Caiaphas was uncertain until 1990, when an ossuary (bone box) was discovered bearing his inscription. Archaeologists have also discovered what they believe to be Simon Peter’s house and a cave where John the Baptist did his baptizing.
Finally, perhaps the most convincing historical evidence that Jesus existed was the rapid rise of Christianity. How can it be explained without Christ? How could this group of fishermen and other workingmen invent Jesus in a scant few years? Durant answered his own introductory question—did Christ exist?—with the following conclusion:
That a few simple men should in one generation have invented so powerful and appealing a personality, so lofty an ethic and so inspiring a vision of human brotherhood, would be a miracle far more incredible than any recorded in the Gospels. After two centuries of Higher Criticism the outlines of the life, character, and teaching of Christ, remain reasonably clear, and constitute the most fascinating feature in the history of Western man.
One of the keys here for Durant and other scholars is the time factor. Myths and legends usually take hundreds of years to evolve—the story of George Washington never telling a lie was probably a lie, until two centuries turned it into legend. News of Christianity, on the other hand, took off faster than gossip about Brad and Jen’s breakup. Had Jesus not existed, those who opposed Christianity would certainly have labeled him a myth from the outset. But they didn’t.
Such evidence, along with the early written accounts and the historical impact of Jesus Christ, convince even skeptical historians that the founder of Christianity was neither myth nor legend. But one expert on myths wasn’t so sure.
Like Muggeridge, Oxford scholar C. S. Lewis was initially convinced that Jesus was nothing more than a myth. Lewis once stated, “All religions, that is, all mythologies … are merely man’s own invention—Christ as much as Loki.” (Loki is an old Norse god. Like Thor, but without the ponytail.)
Ten years after denouncing Jesus as a myth, Lewis discovered that historical details, including several eyewitness documents, verify his existence.
Jesus Christ has impacted history’s landscape like a massive earthquake. And this earthquake has left a trail wider than the Grand Canyon. It is this trail of evidence that convinces scholars that Jesus really did exist and really did impact our world 2,000 years ago.

SCHOLARS’ VERDICT
Clifford Herschel Moore, professor at Harvard University, remarked of Jesus’ historicity, “Christianity knew its Saviour and Redeemer not as some god whose history was contained in a mythical faith. … Jesus was a historical not a mythical being. No remote or foul myth obtruded itself on the Christian believer; his faith was founded on positive, historical, and acceptable facts.”
Few if any serious historians agree with Ellen Johnson’s and Bertrand Russell’s assertions that Jesus didn’t exist. The extensive documentation of Jesus’ life by contemporary writers, his profound historical impact, and the confirming tangible evidence of history have persuaded scholars that Jesus really did exist. Could a myth have done all that? All but a few extremely skeptical scholars say no.

(con't)
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Nov 16, 2008 1:50 PM CST The Stuff Your Church Never Tells You About...........
BarrenPneuma
BarrenPneumaBarrenPneumaGolden Staircase, Ontario Canada87 Threads 3 Polls 1,561 Posts
Dr. Michael Grant of Cambridge has written, “To sum up, modern critical methods fail to support the Christ-myth theory. It has ‘again and again been answered and annihilated by first rank scholars.’ In recent years ‘no serious scholar has ventured to postulate the non-historicity of Jesus.’ ”
Yale historian Jaroslav Pelikan declared, “Regardless of what anyone may personally think or believe about him, Jesus of Nazareth has been the dominant figure in the history of Western culture for almost twenty centuries. … It is from his birth that most of the human race dates its calendars, it is by his name that millions curse and in his name that millions pray.”

The Gospels in Brief

THE BIRTH

The Gospel writers all anchored their historical narratives in the Old Testament, beginning with messianic passages from the Hebrew prophets. These passages foretold the coming Messiah, using a fulfillment formula stating that “that” is “this.” One such passage is Isaiah 9:6-7:
" A child is born to us, a son is given to us. And the government will rest on his shoulders. These will be his royal titles: Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. His ever expanding, peaceful government will never end. He will rule forever with fairness and justice from the throne of his ancestor David.” (Isaiah 9:6-7)
Roughly 700 years after Isaiah uttered this prophecy concerning the coming Messiah, the Gospels tell us, the long-awaited announcement is heralded by an angel. This angel came, not to awaiting multitudes, but to a lowly peasant woman, who was told she would birth the Savior, sans husband.

The young woman, Mary, was engaged to a village carpenter named Joseph. But when Mary told Joseph what the angel had spoken, explaining that she was already pregnant with the child, Joseph obviously assumed an illicit relationship and moved to quietly dissolve the marriage.

But the Gospel of Matthew tells us that an angelic messenger related to Joseph, in a dream, that what Mary had claimed was actually true. In fact, it must have been quite a dream, for it compelled him to believe Mary. In the history of unplanned pregnancies this was probably not the first time such a story was told. It was, in all likelihood, the first time it was believed.

The Gospels relate that the child was born in Bethlehem, this being the town of Joseph’s origin. Everyone needed to return to their ancestral home to fulfill the requirements of a Roman census. As Bethlehem brimmed with returning pilgrims the family was forced to stay in a barn. Perhaps this was God’s plan, or perhaps Joseph just didn’t plan, but we are left viewing irony itself: Mary gave birth to a son, Jesus, and laid the world’s Messiah in a feeding trough for animals.

THE WONDER YEARS

The childhood of Jesus truly was the “wonder years,” for the Gospels, in their silence, leave us to wonder what transpired. Only one story of Jesus’ youth is preserved, in which his parents (Joseph and Mary) having lost him, discovered him in the Temple discussing the things of God with the religious leaders—a hint of things to come.

As is the case with children, one moment they’re running around the playground, and the next thing you know, they’re all grown up and walking on water. And that is pretty much the flow followed by the Gospels.

(con't)
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Nov 16, 2008 1:50 PM CST The Stuff Your Church Never Tells You About...........
BarrenPneuma
BarrenPneumaBarrenPneumaGolden Staircase, Ontario Canada87 Threads 3 Polls 1,561 Posts
PUBLIC MINISTRY

At about the age of 30, Jesus went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath day he went into the synagogue, as was his custom. As he stood to do the Scripture reading, the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him. Unrolling it, he found the place where it was written:
The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, for he has appointed me to preach Good News to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim that captives will be released, that the blind will see, that the downtrodden will be freed from their oppressors, and that the time of the Lord’s favor has come. (Luke 4:18-19)
He rolled up the scroll, handed it back to the attendant, and sat down. Everyone in the synagogue stared at him intently. Then he said, “This Scripture has come true today before your very eyes!” (Luke 4:20-21).

This, according to the Gospel of Luke, marked the beginning of Jesus’ public ministry. The Isaiah passage from which he read refers to the coming Messiah, and by declaring, “This Scripture has come true,” Jesus began his ministry with a gunshot summoning the attention of all Israel and beginning a race that would last roughly three years before it ended in a state-sponsored lynching.

One would assume that Jesus’ teaching was quite diverse, addressing all of the many social and moral injustices of his day. This was not the case. With the exception of the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus taught one primary message: “The kingdom of God is upon you, and I am its king.”

The ministry of Jesus was laced with miracles, but every miracle was an object lesson, a 30-second commercial promoting that one central message.

For example, in the Old Testament, the prophet Isaiah spoke of the Messiah’s coming kingdom, describing it in these words: “In that day deaf people will hear words read from a book, and blind people will see through the gloom and darkness” and “When he comes, he will open the eyes of the blind and unstop the ears of the deaf” (Isaiah 29:18; 35:5). So every time Jesus gave sight to the blind and hearing to the deaf, it was freighted with messianic implications.

Besides telling of his messages and miracles to the masses, the Gospels draw us in to the inner circle of Jesus’ most loyal, though flawed, group of followers: the disciples. Jesus assumed not just the role of Messiah, but that of mentor, training the disciples to carry on the proclamation of the kingdom—and its king—once the king had been killed.

DEATH AND RESURRECTION

The ministry of Jesus ended as abruptly as it had begun. Upon his final visit to Jerusalem for the Passover, Jesus told his 12 closest disciples that he would be betrayed, arrested, and crucified but also that he would come back to life three days later. Jesus’ followers were confused, for it seemed inconceivable that the Messiah’s reign should end in death. In fact, Jesus saw his death as inaugurating his reign. But these were details to be worked out later, as upon entering Jerusalem, the mechanisms of betrayal were already in high gear and there was no time left to clarify.

As Jesus predicted, he was betrayed by one of his own disciples—Judas Iscariot—and arrested. In a mock trial under the Roman governor Pontius Pilate (to whom the Jewish leaders brought him since under Roman law they could not carry out their own executions), he was convicted of treason and condemned to die on a cross.

At 3:00 in the afternoon, after hanging on the cross for approximately six hours, Jesus cried out, “It is finished.” And with that breathed his last breath.
The Gospels declare that three days later reports began to spread of witnesses who had seen Jesus. As the number of witnesses climbed to several hundred, Jerusalem was in an uproar. It was divided and would remain so—Christianity had been birthed.
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Nov 16, 2008 1:59 PM CST The Stuff Your Church Never Tells You About...........
BnaturAl
BnaturAlBnaturAlSarnia, Ontario Canada107 Threads 7 Polls 6,811 Posts
HellBoy was found in Scotland :therefore: HellBoy is real rolling on the floor laughing

















Please Hellboy, save the christians too... laugh
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Nov 16, 2008 2:00 PM CST The Stuff Your Church Never Tells You About...........
BnaturAl
BnaturAlBnaturAlSarnia, Ontario Canada107 Threads 7 Polls 6,811 Posts
Let's not forget "The Rise of the Silver Surfer" banana
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Nov 16, 2008 2:04 PM CST The Stuff Your Church Never Tells You About...........
BarrenPneuma
BarrenPneumaBarrenPneumaGolden Staircase, Ontario Canada87 Threads 3 Polls 1,561 Posts
Oh wise and mighty Al please try to refrain from learning history from comic books. They are fantasdtic literature but are based in the minds of men who never grew up. Hence the scantily clad women and the buffed little boys running around in their pyjammas. I applaud these men for retaining their youth but they do not purport to be the basis of some silly religion for you to espouse.comfort
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Nov 16, 2008 2:17 PM CST The Stuff Your Church Never Tells You About...........
BarrenPneuma
BarrenPneumaBarrenPneumaGolden Staircase, Ontario Canada87 Threads 3 Polls 1,561 Posts
The Dead Sea Scrolls consist of roughly 800 documents, including texts from the Hebrew Bible, discovered between 1947 and 1956 in eleven caves in and around the Wadi Qumran (near the ruins of the ancient settlement of Khirbet Qumran, on the northwest shore of the Dead Sea) in the West Bank. The texts are of great religious and historical signifigance, as they include some of the only known surviving copies of Biblical documents made before 100 AD, and preserve evidence of considerable diversity of belief and practice within late Second Temple Judaism. They are written in Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek, mostly on parchment, but with some written on papyrus. These manuscripts generally date between 150 BCE to 70 CE.

Publication of the scrolls has taken many decades, and the delay has been a source of academic controversy. As of 2007 two volumes remain to be completed, with the whole series, Discoveries in the Judean Desert, running to thirty nine volumes in total. Many of the scrolls are now housed in the Shrine of the Book in Jerusalem. According to The Oxford Companion to Archeology, "The biblical manuscripts from Qumran, which include at least fragments from every book of the Old Testament, except perhaps for the Book of Esther, provide a far older cross section of scriptural tradition than that available to scholars before. While some of the Qumran biblical manuscripts are nearly identical to the Masoretic, or traditional, Hebrew text of the Old Testament, some manuscripts of the books of Exodus and Samuel found in Cave Four exhibit dramatic differences in both language and content. In their astonishing range of textual variants, the Qumran biblical discoveries have prompted scholars to reconsider the once-accepted theories of the development of the modern biblical text from only three manuscript families: of the Masoretic text, of the Hebrew original of the Septuagint, and of the Samaritan Pentateuch. It is now becoming increasingly clear that the Old Testament scripture was extremely fluid until its canonization around A.D. 100."

Fragments of the scrolls on display at the Archaeological Museum, AmmanSix of the Dead Sea Scrolls are currently on exhibit at the Jewish Museum in New York City until January 4, 2009.
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Nov 16, 2008 2:20 PM CST The Stuff Your Church Never Tells You About...........
A mystic is a man who surrendered his mind at its first encounter with the minds of others. Somewhere in the distant reaches of his childhood, when his own understanding of reality clashed with the assertions of others, with their arbitrary orders and contradictory demands, he gave in to so craven a fear of independence that he renounced his rational faculty. At the crossroads of the choice between “I know” and “They say,” he chose the authority of others, he chose to submit rather than to understand, to believe rather than to think. Faith in the supernatural begins as faith in the superiority of others. His surrender took the form of the feeling that he must hide his lack of understanding, that others possess some mysterious knowledge of which he alone is deprived, that reality is whatever they want it to be, through some means forever denied to him.

From then on, afraid to think, he is left at the mercy of unidentified feelings. His feelings become his only guide, his only remnant of personal identity, he clings to them with ferocious possessiveness—and whatever thinking he does is devoted to the struggle of hiding from himself that the nature of his feelings is terror.

When a mystic declares that he feels the existence of a power superior to reason, he feels it all right, but that power is not an omniscient super-spirit of the universe, it is the consciousness of any passer-by to whom he has surrendered his own. A mystic is driven by the urge to impress, to cheat, to flatter, to deceive, to force that omnipotent consciousness of others. “They” are his only key to reality, he feels that he cannot exist save by harnessing their mysterious power and extorting their unaccountable consent. “They” are his only means of perception and, like a blind man who depends on the sight of a dog, he feels he must leash them in order to live. To control the consciousness of others becomes his only passion; power-lust is a weed that grows only in the vacant lots of an abandoned mind.

Galt’s Speech
ATLAS SHRUGGED by Ayn Rand

found here:




wave
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Nov 16, 2008 2:24 PM CST The Stuff Your Church Never Tells You About...........
BarrenPneuma
BarrenPneumaBarrenPneumaGolden Staircase, Ontario Canada87 Threads 3 Polls 1,561 Posts
25 Fascinating Facts About the Dead Sea Scrolls

1.The Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered in eleven caves along the northwest shore of the Dead Sea between the years 1947 and 1956. The area is 13 miles east of Jerusalem and is 1300 feet below sea level. The mostly fragmented texts, are numbered according to the cave that they came out of. They have been called the greatest manuscript discovery of modern times.

2. Only Caves 1 and 11 have produced relatively intact manuscripts. Discovered in 1952, Cave 4 produced the largest find. About 15,000 fragments from more than 500 manuscripts were found.
3. In all, scholars have identified the remains of about 825 to 870 separate scrolls.
4. The Scrolls can be divided into two categories—biblical and non-biblical. Fragments of every book of the Hebrew canon (Old Testament) have been discovered except for the book of Esther.
5. There are now identified among the scrolls, 19 copies of the Book of Isaiah, 25 copies of Deuteronomy and 30 copies of the Psalms .
6. Prophecies by Ezekiel, Jeremiah and Daniel not found in the Bible are written in the Scrolls.
7. The Isaiah Scroll, found relatively intact, is 1000 years older than any previously known copy of Isaiah. In fact, the scrolls are the oldest group of Old Testament manuscripts ever found.
8. In the Scrolls are found never before seen psalms attributed to King David and Joshua.

9.There are nonbiblical writings along the order of commentaries on the OT, paraphrases that expand on the Law, rule books of the community, war conduct, thanksgiving psalms, hymnic compositions, benedictions, liturgical texts, and sapiential (wisdom) writings.
10. The Scrolls are for the most part, written in Hebrew, but there are many written in Aramaic. Aramaic was the common language of the Jews of Palestine for the last two centuries B.C. and of the first two centuries A.D. The discovery of the Scrolls has greatly enhanced our knowledge of these two languages. In addition, there are a few texts written in Greek.
11. The Scrolls appear to be the library of a Jewish sect. The library was hidden away in caves around the outbreak of the First Jewish Revolt (A.D. 66-70) as the Roman army advanced against the rebel Jews.
12. Near the caves are the ancient ruins of Qumran. They were excavated in the early 1950's and appear to be connected with the scrolls.
13. The Dead Sea Scrolls were most likely written by the Essenes during the period from about 200 B.C. to 68 C.E./A.D. The Essenes are mentioned by Josephus and in a few other sources, but not in the New testament. The Essenes were a strict Torah observant, Messianic, apocalyptic, baptist, wilderness, new covenant Jewish sect. They were led by a priest they called the "Teacher of Righteousness," who was opposed and possibly killed by the establishment priesthood in Jerusalem.
14. The enemies of the Qumran community were called the "Sons of Darkness"; they called themselves the "Sons of Light," "the poor," and members of "the Way." They thought of themselves as "the holy ones," who lived in "the house of holiness," because "the Holy Spirit" dwelt with them.
15. The last words of Joseph, Judah, Levi, Naphtali, and Amram (the father of Moses) are written down in the Scrolls.

(con't)
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Nov 16, 2008 2:24 PM CST The Stuff Your Church Never Tells You About...........
BarrenPneuma
BarrenPneumaBarrenPneumaGolden Staircase, Ontario Canada87 Threads 3 Polls 1,561 Posts
16. One of the most curious scrolls is the Copper Scroll. Discovered in Cave 3, this scroll records a list of 64 underground hiding places throughout the land of Israel. The deposits are to contain certain amounts of gold, silver, aromatics, and manuscripts. These are believed to be treasures from the Temple at Jerusalem, that were hidden away for safekeeping.
17. The Temple Scroll, found in Cave 11, is the longest scroll. Its present total length is 26.7 feet (8.148 meters). The overall length of the scroll must have been over 28 feet (8.75m).
18. The scrolls contain previously unknown stories about biblical figures such as Enoch, Abraham, and Noah. The story of Abraham includes an explanation why God asked Abraham to sacrifice his only son Isaac.
19. The scrolls are most commonly made of animal skins, but also papyrus and one of copper. They are written with a carbon-based ink, from right to left, using no punctuation except for an occasional paragraph indentation. In fact, in some cases, there are not even spaces between the words.
20. The Scrolls have revolutionized textual criticism of the Old Testament. Interestingly, now with manuscripts predating the medieval period, we find these texts in substantial agreement with the Masoretic text as well as widely variant forms.

21. Some of the Dead Sea Scrolls actually appeared for sale on June 1, 1954 in the Wall Street Journal. The advertisement read — "The Four Dead Sea Scrolls: Biblical manuscripts dating back to at least 200 BC are for sale. This would be an ideal gift to an educational or religious institution by an individual or group. Box F206."
22. Although the Qumran community existed during the time of the ministry of Jesus, none of the Scrolls refer to Him, nor do they mention any of His follower's described in the New Testament.
23. The major intact texts, from Caves 1 & 11, were published by the late fifties and are now housed in the Shrine of the Book museum in Jerusalem.
24. Since the late fifties, about 40% of the Scrolls, mostly fragments from Cave 4, remained unpublished and were unaccessible. It wasn't until 1991, 44 years after the discovery of the first Scroll, after the pressure for publication mounted, that general access was made available to photographs of the Scrolls. In November of 1991 the photos were published by the Biblical Archaeological Society in a nonofficial edition; a computer reconstruction, based on a concordance, was announced; the Huntington Library pledged to open their microfilm files of all the scroll photographs.
25. The Dead Sea Scrolls enhance our knowledge of both Judaism and Christianity. They represent a non-rabbinic form of Judaism and provide a wealth of comparative material for New Testament scholars, including many important parallels to the Jesus movement. They show Christianity to be rooted in Judaism and have been called the evolutionary link between the two.
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Nov 16, 2008 2:28 PM CST The Stuff Your Church Never Tells You About...........
BarrenPneuma: PUBLIC MINISTRY

At about the age of 30, Jesus went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath day he went into the synagogue, as was his custom. As he stood to do the Scripture reading, the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him. Unrolling it, he found the place where it was written:
The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, for he has appointed me to preach Good News to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim that captives will be released, that the blind will see, that the downtrodden will be freed from their oppressors, and that the time of the Lord’s favor has come. (Luke 4:18-19)
He rolled up the scroll, handed it back to the attendant, and sat down. Everyone in the synagogue stared at him intently. Then he said, “This Scripture has come true today before your very eyes!” (Luke 4:20-21).

This, according to the Gospel of Luke, marked the beginning of Jesus’ public ministry. The Isaiah passage from which he read refers to the coming Messiah, and by declaring, “This Scripture has come true,” Jesus began his ministry with a gunshot summoning the attention of all Israel and beginning a race that would last roughly three years before it ended in a state-sponsored lynching.

One would assume that Jesus’ teaching was quite diverse, addressing all of the many social and moral injustices of his day. This was not the case. With the exception of the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus taught one primary message: “The kingdom of God is upon you, and I am its king.”

The ministry of Jesus was laced with miracles, but every miracle was an object lesson, a 30-second commercial promoting that one central message.

For example, in the Old Testament, the prophet Isaiah spoke of the Messiah’s coming kingdom, describing it in these words: “In that day deaf people will hear words read from a book, and blind people will see through the gloom and darkness” and “When he comes, he will open the eyes of the blind and unstop the ears of the deaf” (Isaiah 29:18; 35:5). So every time Jesus gave sight to the blind and hearing to the deaf, it was freighted with messianic implications.

Besides telling of his messages and miracles to the masses, the Gospels draw us in to the inner circle of Jesus’ most loyal, though flawed, group of followers: the disciples. Jesus assumed not just the role of Messiah, but that of mentor, training the disciples to carry on the proclamation of the kingdom—and its king—once the king had been killed.

DEATH AND RESURRECTION

The ministry of Jesus ended as abruptly as it had begun. Upon his final visit to Jerusalem for the Passover, Jesus told his 12 closest disciples that he would be betrayed, arrested, and crucified but also that he would come back to life three days later. Jesus’ followers were confused, for it seemed inconceivable that the Messiah’s reign should end in death. In fact, Jesus saw his death as inaugurating his reign. But these were details to be worked out later, as upon entering Jerusalem, the mechanisms of betrayal were already in high gear and there was no time left to clarify.

As Jesus predicted, he was betrayed by one of his own disciples—Judas Iscariot—and arrested. In a mock trial under the Roman governor Pontius Pilate (to whom the Jewish leaders brought him since under Roman law they could not carry out their own executions), he was convicted of treason and condemned to die on a cross.

At 3:00 in the afternoon, after hanging on the cross for approximately six hours, Jesus cried out, “It is finished.” And with that breathed his last breath.
The Gospels declare that three days later reports began to spread of witnesses who had seen Jesus. As the number of witnesses climbed to several hundred, Jerusalem was in an uproar. It was divided and would remain so—Christianity had been birthed.
And what does all that Page upon Page of Pasting prove?confused dunno
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Nov 16, 2008 2:33 PM CST The Stuff Your Church Never Tells You About...........
trish123
trish123trish123Macclesfield, Cheshire, England UK177 Threads 4 Polls 13,724 Posts
Conrad73: And what does all that Page upon Page of Pasting prove?


That he supposes some historical evience for Hesus Krishna I guess......... confused
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Nov 16, 2008 2:36 PM CST The Stuff Your Church Never Tells You About...........
trish123: That he supposes some historical evience for Hesus Krishna I guess.........
Only thing it shows ,that the Original Roots of Christianity lie with the Essenes.conversing wave
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Nov 16, 2008 2:41 PM CST The Stuff Your Church Never Tells You About...........
trish123
trish123trish123Macclesfield, Cheshire, England UK177 Threads 4 Polls 13,724 Posts
Conrad73: A mystic is a man who surrendered his mind at its first encounter with the minds of others. Somewhere in the distant reaches of his childhood, when his own understanding of reality clashed with the assertions of others, with their arbitrary orders and contradictory demands, he gave in to so craven a fear of independence that he renounced his rational faculty. At the crossroads of the choice between “I know” and “They say,” he chose the authority of others, he chose to submit rather than to understand, to believe rather than to think. Faith in the supernatural begins as faith in the superiority of others. His surrender took the form of the feeling that he must hide his lack of understanding, that others possess some mysterious knowledge of which he alone is deprived, that reality is whatever they want it to be, through some means forever denied to him.

From then on, afraid to think, he is left at the mercy of unidentified feelings. His feelings become his only guide, his only remnant of personal identity, he clings to them with ferocious possessiveness—and whatever thinking he does is devoted to the struggle of hiding from himself that the nature of his feelings is terror.

When a mystic declares that he feels the existence of a power superior to reason, he feels it all right, but that power is not an omniscient super-spirit of the universe, it is the consciousness of any passer-by to whom he has surrendered his own. A mystic is driven by the urge to impress, to cheat, to flatter, to deceive, to force that omnipotent consciousness of others. “They” are his only key to reality, he feels that he cannot exist save by harnessing their mysterious power and extorting their unaccountable consent. “They” are his only means of perception and, like a blind man who depends on the sight of a dog, he feels he must leash them in order to live. To control the consciousness of others becomes his only passion; power-lust is a weed that grows only in the vacant lots of an abandoned mind.

Galt’s Speech
ATLAS SHRUGGED by Ayn Rand

found here:



Nice one Conrad - I still have that on the shelf behind me - well, three shelves of stuff that all need to be read - I havent forgotten..... wave
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Nov 16, 2008 2:41 PM CST The Stuff Your Church Never Tells You About...........
BnaturAl
BnaturAlBnaturAlSarnia, Ontario Canada107 Threads 7 Polls 6,811 Posts
Conrad73: And what does all that Page upon Page of Pasting prove?


It is for his one true love, defending the honour of one so fair. Need we name her?







conversing dunno
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Nov 16, 2008 2:42 PM CST The Stuff Your Church Never Tells You About...........
BarrenPneuma
BarrenPneumaBarrenPneumaGolden Staircase, Ontario Canada87 Threads 3 Polls 1,561 Posts
trish123: That he supposes some historical evience for Hesus Krishna I guess.........


Secular and archaeological evidence rather. The supposition being that nothing in the Bible is based on fact. Museums are filled with these tangible evidences, and likewise reams of ancient books as well. These are the dinosaurs of Christianity on display for the masses, and there will always be those fools so self absorbed as to refute the face looking into their own. Reverse Atheism of sorts, at least a failing to accept fact for what it is.
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Nov 16, 2008 2:43 PM CST The Stuff Your Church Never Tells You About...........
trish123
trish123trish123Macclesfield, Cheshire, England UK177 Threads 4 Polls 13,724 Posts
Conrad73: Only thing it shows ,that the Original Roots of Christianity lie with the Essenes.


lets not forget the Gnostics or Arien.......... wave
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Nov 16, 2008 2:46 PM CST The Stuff Your Church Never Tells You About...........
Indyfella
IndyfellaIndyfellaindianapolis, Indiana USA152 Threads 8 Polls 18,150 Posts
I may be wrong, but I bet overnight everyone has flipped their views?


This is like being for Obama or not being for him. No one's going to change their belief system.

JMO



All parties return to their respective corners........boxing boxing
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