The Stuff Your Church Never Tells You About........... (207)
The total number of "prominent" characters in the bible you have to "have faith" in existing, is 1,082 ... absolutely no proof exists for any of them. Yet we have proof of dinosaurs millions of years before 
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Anyway - moving on from Eusabius......... oh, please take note of all the stuff in brackets - they mean that you can actually look it up for proof if you like................... and ibid means same as above - didnt know that till last yr myself..........
With his instructions fulfilled, Constantine then decreed that the New Testimonies would thereafter be called the "word of the Roman Saviour God" (Life of Constantine, vol. iii, p. 29) and official to all presbyters sermonising in the Roman Empire.
He then ordered earlier presbyterial manuscripts and the records of the council "burnt" and declared that "any man found concealing writings should be stricken off from his shoulders" (beheaded) (ibid.). As the record shows, presbyterial writings previous to the Council of Nicaea no longer exist, except for some fragments that have survived.
The Second Council of Nicaea in 786-87 denounced the First Council of Nicaea as "a synod of fools and madmen" and sought to annul "decisions passed by men with troubled brains" (History of the Christian Church, H. H. Milman, DD, 1871). If one chooses to read the records of the Second Nicaean Council and notes references to "affrighted bishops" and the "soldiery" needed to "quell proceedings", the "fools and madmen" declaration is surely an example of the pot calling the kettle black.
Constantine died in 337 and his outgrowth of many now-called pagan beliefs into a new religious system brought many converts. Later Church writers made him "the great champion of Christianity" which he gave "legal status as the religion of the Roman Empire" (Encyclopedia of the Roman Empire, Matthew Bunson, Facts on File, New York, 1994, p. 86). Historical records reveal this to be incorrect, for it was "self-interest" that led him to create Christianity (A Smaller Classical Dictionary, J. M. Dent, London, 1910, p. 161).
Yet it wasn't called "Christianity" until the 15th century (How The Great Pan Died, Professor Edmond S. Bordeaux [Vatican archivist], Mille Meditations, USA, MCMLXVIII, pp. 45-7).
Over the ensuing centuries, Constantine's New Testimonies were expanded upon, "interpolations" were added and other writings included (Catholic Encyclopedia, Farley ed., vol. vi, pp. 135-137; also, Pecci ed., vol. ii, pp. 121-122).
For example, in 397 John "golden-mouthed" Chrysostom restructured the writings of Apollonius of Tyana, a first-century wandering sage, and made them part of the New Testimonies (Secrets of the Christian Fathers, op. cit.). The Latinised name for Apollonius is Paulus
(A Latin-English Dictionary, J. T. White and J. E. Riddle, Ginn & Heath, Boston, 1880), and the Church today calls those writings the Epistles of Paul. Apollonius's personal attendant, Damis, an Assyrian scribe, is Demis in the New Testament (2 Tim. 4:10).
The Church hierarchy knows the truth about the origin of its Epistles, for Cardinal Bembo (d. 1547),
secretary to Pope Leo X (d. 1521), advised his associate, Cardinal Sadoleto, to disregard them, saying "put away these trifles, for such absurdities do not become a man of dignity; they were introduced on the scene later by a sly voice from heaven" (Cardinal Bembo: His Letters and Comments on Pope Leo X, A. L. Collins, London, 1842 reprint).
With his instructions fulfilled, Constantine then decreed that the New Testimonies would thereafter be called the "word of the Roman Saviour God" (Life of Constantine, vol. iii, p. 29) and official to all presbyters sermonising in the Roman Empire.
He then ordered earlier presbyterial manuscripts and the records of the council "burnt" and declared that "any man found concealing writings should be stricken off from his shoulders" (beheaded) (ibid.). As the record shows, presbyterial writings previous to the Council of Nicaea no longer exist, except for some fragments that have survived.
The Second Council of Nicaea in 786-87 denounced the First Council of Nicaea as "a synod of fools and madmen" and sought to annul "decisions passed by men with troubled brains" (History of the Christian Church, H. H. Milman, DD, 1871). If one chooses to read the records of the Second Nicaean Council and notes references to "affrighted bishops" and the "soldiery" needed to "quell proceedings", the "fools and madmen" declaration is surely an example of the pot calling the kettle black.
Constantine died in 337 and his outgrowth of many now-called pagan beliefs into a new religious system brought many converts. Later Church writers made him "the great champion of Christianity" which he gave "legal status as the religion of the Roman Empire" (Encyclopedia of the Roman Empire, Matthew Bunson, Facts on File, New York, 1994, p. 86). Historical records reveal this to be incorrect, for it was "self-interest" that led him to create Christianity (A Smaller Classical Dictionary, J. M. Dent, London, 1910, p. 161).
Yet it wasn't called "Christianity" until the 15th century (How The Great Pan Died, Professor Edmond S. Bordeaux [Vatican archivist], Mille Meditations, USA, MCMLXVIII, pp. 45-7).
Over the ensuing centuries, Constantine's New Testimonies were expanded upon, "interpolations" were added and other writings included (Catholic Encyclopedia, Farley ed., vol. vi, pp. 135-137; also, Pecci ed., vol. ii, pp. 121-122).
For example, in 397 John "golden-mouthed" Chrysostom restructured the writings of Apollonius of Tyana, a first-century wandering sage, and made them part of the New Testimonies (Secrets of the Christian Fathers, op. cit.). The Latinised name for Apollonius is Paulus
(A Latin-English Dictionary, J. T. White and J. E. Riddle, Ginn & Heath, Boston, 1880), and the Church today calls those writings the Epistles of Paul. Apollonius's personal attendant, Damis, an Assyrian scribe, is Demis in the New Testament (2 Tim. 4:10).
The Church hierarchy knows the truth about the origin of its Epistles, for Cardinal Bembo (d. 1547),
secretary to Pope Leo X (d. 1521), advised his associate, Cardinal Sadoleto, to disregard them, saying "put away these trifles, for such absurdities do not become a man of dignity; they were introduced on the scene later by a sly voice from heaven" (Cardinal Bembo: His Letters and Comments on Pope Leo X, A. L. Collins, London, 1842 reprint).
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BnaturAl: The total number of "prominent" characters in the bible you have to "have faith" in existing, is 1,082 ... absolutely no proof exists for any of them. Yet we have proof of dinosaurs millions of years before
God put those bones there to test faith, of course! tut. and before you start going on about something sensible like carbon dating, He had kept those bones in a cupboard for a very long time before he buried them, but just hadn't found a use for them before!!
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BnaturAl: The total number of "prominent" characters in the bible you have to "have faith" in existing, is 1,082 ... absolutely no proof exists for any of them. Yet we have proof of dinosaurs millions of years before
Yep - and folk resort to making a mockery of this stuff in favour of fairy tales..........
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come along in with your frog jokes Mike - where have you got to...........
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Its not a challange,sorry to disappoint u.The name of the forum says it all I didnt even read what was said.I know who I am and what I am.No one knows what my church teaches or doesnt teach.I am not a Catholic,big difference between a catholic belief and a true christian belief. I am just sick of the know it all attitudes.I dont care what u or anyone believes.Like I said we all bleed the same color red,and we are all human.And this site is suppose to be a friendly site and has become anything but friendy.
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littlewolf: Its not a challange,sorry to disappoint u.The name of the forum says it all I didnt even read what was said.I know who I am and what I am.No one knows what my church teaches or doesnt teach.I am not a Catholic,big difference between a catholic belief and a true christian belief. I am just sick of the know it all attitudes.I dont care what u or anyone believes.Like I said we all bleed the same color red,and we are all human.And this site is suppose to be a friendly site and has become anything but friendy.
Yes, indeed, I do bleed red which is why I concern myself with these matters - my brothers and sisters continue to die in the battlefields of christian ideologies - why else do you think the soldiers are deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan, is it simple coincidence that both those countries are of a different religious persuasion......... its all simply about money for the war machine........ a war machine which really doesnt care whom it sets against whom........... its more about profits which is the common denominator amongst the factionalisation of society - its always been about winners and losers, the stakes just got higher - thats all.......
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littlewolf: Its not a challange,sorry to disappoint u.The name of the forum says it all I didnt even read what was said.I know who I am and what I am.No one knows what my church teaches or doesnt teach.I am not a Catholic,big difference between a catholic belief and a true christian belief. I am just sick of the know it all attitudes.I dont care what u or anyone believes.Like I said we all bleed the same color red,and we are all human.And this site is suppose to be a friendly site and has become anything but friendy.
christianity is built on the Roman Catholic Christ ....
information isn't unfriendly, just people who want to play victims to it.
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littlewolf: Its not a challange,sorry to disappoint u.The name of the forum says it all I didnt even read what was said.I know who I am and what I am.No one knows what my church teaches or doesnt teach.I am not a Catholic,big difference between a catholic belief and a true christian belief. I am just sick of the know it all attitudes.I dont care what u or anyone believes.Like I said we all bleed the same color red,and we are all human.And this site is suppose to be a friendly site and has become anything but friendy.
If you didn't read the OP, then how can you know or comment on what the content actually is?
What's unfriendly about sharing history and information?
Especially when it's the history of YOUR faith.
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CrosstownTraffic: God put those bones there to test faith, of course! tut. and before you start going on about something sensible like carbon dating, He had kept those bones in a cupboard for a very long time before he buried them, but just hadn't found a use for them before!!
He
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kidatheart: If you didn't read the OP, then how can you know or comment on what the content actually is?
What's unfriendly about sharing history and information?
Especially when it's the history of YOUR faith.
What's unfriendly about sharing history and information?
Especially when it's the history of YOUR faith.
Thanks Kid - whats more, its also the faith I grew up in and know from the core outwards..........
This is no 30 minuite wonder - i have really done my homework on this stuff - theres no way I will have a different outlook next year or something..........
I hear lots of stuff about folk who wander into different religious stuff for a few months here and there - maybe een a few years here and there, they are the most committed of the most devout - for a while.............
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littlewolf: Its not a challange,sorry to disappoint u.The name of the forum says it all I didnt even read what was said.I know who I am and what I am.No one knows what my church teaches or doesnt teach.I am not a Catholic,big difference between a catholic belief and a true christian belief. I am just sick of the know it all attitudes.I dont care what u or anyone believes.Like I said we all bleed the same color red,and we are all human.And this site is suppose to be a friendly site and has become anything but friendy.
So far, you're the only "unfriendly" post in here. If you don't like the topic stated in the subject tag or OP, don't come in...then it doesn't get unfriendly.
Or, come in and be friendly about it and have a discussion instead of having your hackles up...and that's all you've done in your two posts. (Just stating facts.)
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trish123: Thanks Kid - whats more, its also the faith I grew up in and know from the core outwards..........
This is no 30 minuite wonder - i have really done my homework on this stuff - theres no way I will have a different outlook next year or something..........
I hear lots of stuff about folk who wander into different religious stuff for a few months here and there - maybe een a few years here and there, they are the most committed of the most devout - for a while.............
This is no 30 minuite wonder - i have really done my homework on this stuff - theres no way I will have a different outlook next year or something..........
I hear lots of stuff about folk who wander into different religious stuff for a few months here and there - maybe een a few years here and there, they are the most committed of the most devout - for a while.............
I grew up in the Catholic and Methodist churches...know it from the core-out, too, and it never fit me. I came in to learn b/c I can see that you do have a lot of interesting facts here. I've been copying and pasting them into emails to myself to keep them, hope you don't mind.
Anyway...I'm enjoying the history lesson.
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Pink Floyd:
So, so you think you can tell
Heaven from Hell,
Blue skies from pain.
Can you tell a green field
From a cold steel rail?
A smile from a veil?
Do you think you can tell?
And did they get you to trade
Your heros for ghosts?
Hot ashes for trees?
Hot air for a cool breeze?
Cold comfort for change?
And did you exchange
A walk on part in the war
For a lead role in a cage?
We're just two lost souls
Swimming in a fish bowl,
Year after year,
Running over the same old ground.
What have we found?
The same old fears.
So, so you think you can tell
Heaven from Hell,
Blue skies from pain.
Can you tell a green field
From a cold steel rail?
A smile from a veil?
Do you think you can tell?
And did they get you to trade
Your heros for ghosts?
Hot ashes for trees?
Hot air for a cool breeze?
Cold comfort for change?
And did you exchange
A walk on part in the war
For a lead role in a cage?
We're just two lost souls
Swimming in a fish bowl,
Year after year,
Running over the same old ground.
What have we found?
The same old fears.
How I wish, how I wish you were here
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StressFree: How I wish, how I wish you were here
lost folk swimmin in fishbowls is something I can relate to..........
What makes a Christian?
At the bare minimum, a Christian is a person who had been baptized with water in the Name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and who believes at least the tenets found in the Apostle's Creed.
Most Protestant thus qualify and the Catholic qualify. Most Protestants are baptized in water with the Trinitarian formula and most believe the tenets of the Apostle's Creed. Since Catholics WROTE the Apostle's Creed ..................
As for the name "Christian", the first name for the followers of Christ was "The Way." That is why the modern day cult "The Way" calls themselves that. The next term used was "Christians".
The term "Catholic" was first used in A.D. 107 by Bishop Ignatius of Antioch in his letters to the seven Churches is Asia Minor (which still exist today). In one of those letters he affirms that the Pope (bishop of Rome) was the "President" of he whole Church and that all the Church were to remain in communion with the Bishop of Rome.
To say that the Catholic Church was not the first Church of the first century and the only Church until the beginning of the 11th century when the Orthodox split off is delusion. Catholics were the first Christians. This is historical fact.
Then from the 11th century to the 16th century there were only two legitimate Churches -- the Catholic and the Eastern Orthodox -- both Christian and both in their respective territories referring to themselves as simply Christian. Again, this cannot be refuted by anyone with an IQ above 25. It is historical fact.
Historically, from the 1st to the 16th centuries the Church was normally called the Christian Church because there were no other Churches other than the Catholic Church for the first 1000 years, and then the Catholic Church in the West and the Orthodox in the East for 500 years after that. There was no need to place an adjective in front.
When the Orthodox split from the Catholic Church in the 11th Century, we then had the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church, but since the two were in different parts of the world, everyone just called themselves Christian and the Church as Christian. Again there was no real need to place a adjective in front.
Then came the Luther rebellion. Now we had multiple faith groups all Christian. Now we had to start using adjectives to differentiate between Catholic Christian, Lutheran Christian, Presbyterian Christian, etc.
The term "Roman" Catholic was coined by the Anglicans (Church of England) as a term of insult. They wanted to think of themselves as Catholic but did not want to be under the authority of the Pope. So they called Catholics, those "Roman" Catholics and considered themselves Anglican Catholics, as-it-were. The term "Roman" Catholic stuck historically.
ALL Christian groups have a lineage through the Catholic Church whether they like it or not. The first century Christians were Catholic (that is, a universal church under the leadership of a Pope). We know this for a fact because we have documentary evidence to prove it.
The fundamentals of the Faith, and the Bible itself, all come from the Catholic Church. The Protestants would not know what the Trinity was without the Catholics, they would not know what books constituted the New Testament without the Catholics. They would not be Christian without the Catholics Church propagating the faith for 1500 years before the Protestants ever existed.
These are the facts. All pretense to another history is delusion and bigotry.
Catholics need to know their history, and Protestant need to know it too.
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Hail Hesus Krishna!!
Thanks, Trish, for this!
But from now on could you make your posts a tad more friendly? Thanks!
Thanks, Trish, for this!
But from now on could you make your posts a tad more friendly? Thanks!
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druidess6308: I grew up in the Catholic and Methodist churches...know it from the core-out, too, and it never fit me. I came in to learn b/c I can see that you do have a lot of interesting facts here. I've been copying and pasting them into emails to myself to keep them, hope you don't mind.
Anyway...I'm enjoying the history lesson.
Anyway...I'm enjoying the history lesson.
Thanks sweetie - theres loads more to come
I have gigabytes of this stuff - check in with me anytime on mail and Id be only too happy to discuss it all - anytime and anybody
I have some really interesting stuff Dru - if you have a question, please ask it and I will do my utmost any time to look through the possibilities with you..........
Long may the joys of open minds continue.........
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Ambrose2007: Hail Hesus Krishna!!
Thanks, Trish, for this!
But from now on could you make your posts a tad more friendly? Thanks!
Thanks, Trish, for this!
But from now on could you make your posts a tad more friendly? Thanks!
Hey brutha Krishna....I just joined and shaved my head and donned my orange robes....
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trish123: lost folk swimmin in fishbowls is something I can relate to..........What makes a Christian?
At the bare minimum, a Christian is a person who had been baptized with water in the Name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and who believes at least the tenets found in the Apostle's Creed.
Most Protestant thus qualify and the Catholic qualify. Most Protestants are baptized in water with the Trinitarian formula and most believe the tenets of the Apostle's Creed. Since Catholics WROTE the Apostle's Creed ..................As for the name "Christian", the first name for the followers of Christ was "The Way." That is why the modern day cult "The Way" calls themselves that. The next term used was "Christians".
The term "Catholic" was first used in A.D. 107 by Bishop Ignatius of Antioch in his letters to the seven Churches is Asia Minor (which still exist today). In one of those letters he affirms that the Pope (bishop of Rome) was the "President" of he whole Church and that all the Church were to remain in communion with the Bishop of Rome.
To say that the Catholic Church was not the first Church of the first century and the only Church until the beginning of the 11th century when the Orthodox split off is delusion. Catholics were the first Christians. This is historical fact.
Then from the 11th century to the 16th century there were only two legitimate Churches -- the Catholic and the Eastern Orthodox -- both Christian and both in their respective territories referring to themselves as simply Christian. Again, this cannot be refuted by anyone with an IQ above 25. It is historical fact.
Historically, from the 1st to the 16th centuries the Church was normally called the Christian Church because there were no other Churches other than the Catholic Church for the first 1000 years, and then the Catholic Church in the West and the Orthodox in the East for 500 years after that. There was no need to place an adjective in front.
When the Orthodox split from the Catholic Church in the 11th Century, we then had the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church, but since the two were in different parts of the world, everyone just called themselves Christian and the Church as Christian. Again there was no real need to place a adjective in front.
Then came the Luther rebellion. Now we had multiple faith groups all Christian. Now we had to start using adjectives to differentiate between Catholic Christian, Lutheran Christian, Presbyterian Christian, etc.
The term "Roman" Catholic was coined by the Anglicans (Church of England) as a term of insult. They wanted to think of themselves as Catholic but did not want to be under the authority of the Pope. So they called Catholics, those "Roman" Catholics and considered themselves Anglican Catholics, as-it-were. The term "Roman" Catholic stuck historically.
ALL Christian groups have a lineage through the Catholic Church whether they like it or not. The first century Christians were Catholic (that is, a universal church under the leadership of a Pope). We know this for a fact because we have documentary evidence to prove it.
The fundamentals of the Faith, and the Bible itself, all come from the Catholic Church. The Protestants would not know what the Trinity was without the Catholics, they would not know what books constituted the New Testament without the Catholics. They would not be Christian without the Catholics Church propagating the faith for 1500 years before the Protestants ever existed.
These are the facts. All pretense to another history is delusion and bigotry.
Catholics need to know their history, and Protestant need to know it too.
At the bare minimum, a Christian is a person who had been baptized with water in the Name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and who believes at least the tenets found in the Apostle's Creed.
Most Protestant thus qualify and the Catholic qualify. Most Protestants are baptized in water with the Trinitarian formula and most believe the tenets of the Apostle's Creed. Since Catholics WROTE the Apostle's Creed ..................As for the name "Christian", the first name for the followers of Christ was "The Way." That is why the modern day cult "The Way" calls themselves that. The next term used was "Christians".
The term "Catholic" was first used in A.D. 107 by Bishop Ignatius of Antioch in his letters to the seven Churches is Asia Minor (which still exist today). In one of those letters he affirms that the Pope (bishop of Rome) was the "President" of he whole Church and that all the Church were to remain in communion with the Bishop of Rome.
To say that the Catholic Church was not the first Church of the first century and the only Church until the beginning of the 11th century when the Orthodox split off is delusion. Catholics were the first Christians. This is historical fact.
Then from the 11th century to the 16th century there were only two legitimate Churches -- the Catholic and the Eastern Orthodox -- both Christian and both in their respective territories referring to themselves as simply Christian. Again, this cannot be refuted by anyone with an IQ above 25. It is historical fact.
Historically, from the 1st to the 16th centuries the Church was normally called the Christian Church because there were no other Churches other than the Catholic Church for the first 1000 years, and then the Catholic Church in the West and the Orthodox in the East for 500 years after that. There was no need to place an adjective in front.
When the Orthodox split from the Catholic Church in the 11th Century, we then had the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church, but since the two were in different parts of the world, everyone just called themselves Christian and the Church as Christian. Again there was no real need to place a adjective in front.
Then came the Luther rebellion. Now we had multiple faith groups all Christian. Now we had to start using adjectives to differentiate between Catholic Christian, Lutheran Christian, Presbyterian Christian, etc.
The term "Roman" Catholic was coined by the Anglicans (Church of England) as a term of insult. They wanted to think of themselves as Catholic but did not want to be under the authority of the Pope. So they called Catholics, those "Roman" Catholics and considered themselves Anglican Catholics, as-it-were. The term "Roman" Catholic stuck historically.
ALL Christian groups have a lineage through the Catholic Church whether they like it or not. The first century Christians were Catholic (that is, a universal church under the leadership of a Pope). We know this for a fact because we have documentary evidence to prove it.
The fundamentals of the Faith, and the Bible itself, all come from the Catholic Church. The Protestants would not know what the Trinity was without the Catholics, they would not know what books constituted the New Testament without the Catholics. They would not be Christian without the Catholics Church propagating the faith for 1500 years before the Protestants ever existed.
These are the facts. All pretense to another history is delusion and bigotry.
Catholics need to know their history, and Protestant need to know it too.
Okay, I'm confused. If there is no history of biblical characters as was earlier pointed out, how do we know that where you get the "facts" is accurate?
That may be hype too? When did history start becoming accurate?------ This thread is Archived ------
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But yes, the times they are a changin'...and more people are becoming aware of the lies that they've been fed.
My beliefs are based more on what I feel to be true, and what science is now proving to be true, about existence and the energy of this existence. The Kaballah fits more to what I follow, and science is finally proving much of it to be true.
Funny, but I always questioned the bible...and believe me, the nuns and priests hated that, as did my dad.
Thanks Dru - Im not bashing them either - some of my most loved people are Christians - I had to read your last sentence about three times to assure myself I hadnt written it Dru.
There have been a few people on here who have tried the gentlest of conversion stuff on me and I realise that is because they are caring people.............
As you say - it is very difficult to instill reason where decades of 'faith' have such a stronghold........