Obama Intent on Keeping His Word - Again ( Archived) (125)

Feb 5, 2009 9:56 AM CST Obama Intent on Keeping His Word - Again
Fallingman
FallingmanFallingmanDublin, Ireland29 Threads 12 Polls 11,436 Posts
Skybow: Remember; "There are none so blind as those who will not see..."


These Forums prove that every day!thumbs up
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Feb 5, 2009 10:27 AM CST Obama Intent on Keeping His Word - Again
Skybow
SkybowSkybowapple valley, California USA4 Threads 1,146 Posts


By Barack Obama
Thursday, February 5, 2009; Page A17

By now, it's clear to everyone that we have inherited an economic crisis as deep and dire as any since the days of the Great Depression. Millions of jobs that Americans relied on just a year ago are gone; millions more of the nest eggs families worked so hard to build have vanished. People everywhere are worried about what tomorrow will bring.

What Americans expect from Washington is action that matches the urgency they feel in their daily lives -- action that's swift, bold and wise enough for us to climb out of this crisis.

Because each day we wait to begin the work of turning our economy around, more people lose their jobs, their savings and their homes. And if nothing is done, this recession might linger for years. Our economy will lose 5 million more jobs. Unemployment will approach double digits. Our nation will sink deeper into a crisis that, at some point, we may not be able to reverse.

That's why I feel such a sense of urgency about the recovery plan before Congress. With it, we will create or save more than 3 million jobs over the next two years, provide immediate tax relief to 95 percent of American workers, ignite spending by businesses and consumers alike, and take steps to strengthen our country for years to come.

This plan is more than a prescription for short-term spending -- it's a strategy for America's long-term growth and opportunity in areas such as renewable energy, health care and education. And it's a strategy that will be implemented with unprecedented transparency and accountability, so Americans know where their tax dollars are going and how they are being spent.

In recent days, there have been misguided criticisms of this plan that echo the failed theories that helped lead us into this crisis -- the notion that tax cuts alone will solve all our problems; that we can meet our enormous tests with half-steps and piecemeal measures; that we can ignore fundamental challenges such as energy independence and the high cost of health care and still expect our economy and our country to thrive.

I reject these theories, and so did the American people when they went to the polls in November and voted resoundingly for change. They know that we have tried it those ways for too long. And because we have, our health-care costs still rise faster than inflation. Our dependence on foreign oil still threatens our economy and our security. Our children still study in schools that put them at a disadvantage. We've seen the tragic consequences when our bridges crumble and our levees fail.

Every day, our economy gets sicker -- and the time for a remedy that puts Americans back to work, jump-starts our economy and invests in lasting growth is now....
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Feb 5, 2009 10:29 AM CST Obama Intent on Keeping His Word - Again
ttom500
ttom500ttom500St. Cloud, Florida USA30 Threads 5 Polls 10,523 Posts
Still in 2002-3? My calendar says....2009.

An honest opinion coming.

You either live in yesterday, today or tomorrow. Much better to live in today. Yesterday is gone and not a much in the world one can do to change it. Well there is revisionist history.:-)
Tomorrow is bunch of possible dreams and hopes. But they will not feed you, put a house over your head or power a car to the store.

I say sure learn from the past. Nothing wrong with that at all.
But if you make the past your standard of excellence...how does one make better today or tomorrow? You are stuck in the past.

We fought a war in Iraq. Debate the purposes and causes, all you wish. That part of learning from the past, spoken of. But consider what Iraq is today...with out Sadam. The Maliki gov't got the lion share of votes. The people of Iraq support him, his party and gov't. One near quote from a voting Iraqi...."we should support President Maliki, because he ended the terror reign of the militias."

Those mentioned Islamic militia of AlSadyr and others....they were there in Sadam day. Sadam let them exist. Let Islamic militia that turned on their own people to exist in Iraq. Want such a militia in your home country?

The reason, Gen Peatris was able to turn this around? The Iraqi people had a greater degree of trust in the United State military, than it did in the Islamic militia, AlQeada of Iraq, the foreign fighters coming into the country. It took 6 years to develop that degree of trust.

A favorite saying of President Obama is.....'we cannot do any worse than what they did'. A fair reply that any REP can make....
was that Iraq was going to be a nightmare, no matter what was done (invasion and occupation) or not done there (just turn our backs to Sadam and Iraq).

Sadam and his Batth party killing Kurds. Islamic
militia attached to strong Clerics suppressing the Iraqi people growing desire for democracy. Shia vs Sunni. Odie and Udie. A nightmare if left alone.
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Feb 5, 2009 10:31 AM CST Obama Intent on Keeping His Word - Again
Skybow
SkybowSkybowapple valley, California USA4 Threads 1,146 Posts



Secret report recommends military shift in Afghanistan
Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 11:12 AM ET
Filed Under: Terrorism, Politics

By Jim Miklaszewski, NBC News Chief Pentagon Correspondent, and Courtney Kube, NBC News Producer

The Pentagon is prepared to announce the deployment of 17,000 additional soldiers and Marines to Afghanistan as early as this week even as President Barack Obama is searching for his own strategy for the war. According to military officials during last week's meeting with Defense Secretary Gates and the Joint Chiefs of Staff in the Pentagon's "tank," the president specifically asked, "What is the end game?" in the U.S. military's strategy for Afghanistan. When asked what the answer was, one military official told NBC News, "Frankly, we don't have one." But they're working on it.

Senior military officials confirm to NBC News that a secret report from the Joint Chiefs of Staff to President Obama recommends a shift in the military mission in Afghanistan to concentrate solely on combatting the Taliban and al-Qaida and leave the "hearts and minds" aspect of the war to other U.S. agencies and NATO.

The officials stress this strategy would NOT abandon the so-called "soft-side" of the war, to establish good governance, law enforcement, economics, education, etc., but instead hand those responsbilitities over to the State Justice, Agriculture departments and others. "This is a classic counnterinsurgency strategy, but the military can not do it alone."

According to the officials, the Taliban "has definitely gained the upper hand" in some areas of Afghanistan, particularly the South, because there's just too much territory and too few American forces to "clear and hold" an area. "The Taliban is no match" for U.S. forces, but once the Americans drive the Taliban from a region, then leave, the Taliban immediately filter back in and regain control. "In many remote areas, the Taliban have established 'shadow governments' and in some cases gained the confidence and support of the locals.

"We need a strategy that will convince the Afghan people (in the remote areas) that the Taliban's extemism is no longer attractive as a government or a career." To do that, the strategy must first make the Afghans feel secure, then establish good governance, local security, jobs and education. "But that is not the miltiary's job." according to one official. "We can build the schools, we can build the courthouses, but we (the military) can not help them establish the good goverernance, justice and educations sytems" that are needed. In a speech earlier this week, Joint Chiefs Chairman Mike Mullen empasized that ultimately to win the war, "the center of gravity (in Afghanistan) is the Afghan people."

The new strategy also includes more aggressive efforts by U.S. and NATO military forces to target the drug trade, specifically drug lords, opium labs and traffickers. Previously there had to be proof that such activity was contributing drug money directly to the support of the Taliban and or al-Qaida, but new broader rules of engagement assume any drug activities ultimately contribute to insurgents and therefore are "fair game."

The military officials stress that even while President Obama works on putting his stamp on the Afghanistan strategy, the deployment of the additional 17,000 troops, up to 30,000 more by the end of the year, will proceed. "Those additional forces are badly needed and the plans are already in place" according to one official. It's what comes next that is squarely in President Obama's court.
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Feb 5, 2009 10:44 AM CST Obama Intent on Keeping His Word - Again
vinny1967
vinny1967vinny1967Dublin, Cork Ireland131 Threads 7 Polls 11,475 Posts
Skybow: Remember; "There are none so blind as those who will not see..."


thumbs up

wine
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Feb 5, 2009 10:44 AM CST Obama Intent on Keeping His Word - Again
ttom500: What I am suggesting is. We force reduce in Iraq to a security level. To make sure that if foreign fighter return.....we are there to keep the country stable enough not to see it fail. Similar to what was done in South Korea following the Korean war.

We paid a price for this. Full withdrawal make the Iraqi gov't and the Iraqi people that are supporting democracy in large numbers...targets again for these foreign fighters.

So follow me a little. A full force withdrawal (President Obama position) can allow that to happen. If it does fail, we are in the position of either....going back and doing it again. Or reneging on the commitment to make Iraq democratic. Why pay this price a second time? Why lose face in the middle east by saying we don't back up exporting of Democracy?

That latter is very important to the Iran issue. If Iran feels that we are no longer in the democracy exporting business, then it will become even more aggressive in the radical Islam exporting business.


Because you haven't....produced Democracy that is......what the US HAS done is imposed itself on the country and the world by it's taking over unilaterally the decision to invade and occupy.

If you had liberated Iraq, you wouldn't be huddled in closed tightly secured compounds and traveling around the place in heavily armed convoys.....you would be cheered and welcomed in the streets by the normal average populace....

Or are so blinded by your own media campaigning that you cannot see black when it is staring you in the face?

You have only taken a country by force and occupied it....not liberated.
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Feb 5, 2009 11:09 AM CST Obama Intent on Keeping His Word - Again
highfidelity
highfidelityhighfidelityEurope, Lower Saxony Germany37 Threads 2,287 Posts
sorry ..for the double - here part 2 -

The Afghan drug shambles is a world problem for which the US must bear responsibility, as it is the prime international player in Afghanistan. If it wasn't for American policy, there would be no other foreign troops in the country.

According to US official figures, over the past year there has been an increase of 26 percent in drug production, up to a total of 5,644 metric tons. The land area involved in poppy growing has "increased by 61 percent. Cultivation in the two main production provinces, Helmand in the southwest and Oruzgan in central Afghanistan, was up by 132 percent."

And Mr John Walters of the White House calls this "disappointing". How one envies his ability to describe a world catastrophe in such a trite and emollient fashion.

There is no point in tens of thousands of foreign troops chasing round the country after so-called Taliban when the biggest problem of all is that of drug production. And the reference to "so-called Taliban" is apposite, as NATO's commander, the US General Jones, has stated bluntly that "There is a tendency to characterize all of the violence in Afghanistan as the resurgence of the Taliban. This is inaccurate.

It doesn't capture the nature of the problem."
He indicated that the violence had other causes, including "the strong presence of the drug cartels which have their own infrastructure, their own export system, their own security system . . . "
The insurgents in Afghanistan are rapidly developing from fragmented and marginalised opposition figures into nationalists with widening popular appeal (it takes me back to Vietnam in 1970-71), and are making propaganda during the winter while the fields are barren. Come the first days of spring 2007 and the seeds will be sown : both poppy seeds and those for an increasingly barbaric war again foreign troops. Both will prosper, because the war in Afghanistan is being waged in entirely the wrong way and with the wrong priorities.
Antonio Maria Costa, the head of the UN Office on Drugs and Crime, appealed in September 2006 for "NATO forces to destroy the heroin labs, disband the open opium bazaars, attack the opium convoys and bring to justice the big traders.

I invite coalition countries to give NATO the mandate and resources required."

As yet, nobody has accepted his invitation. Because nobody has the guts. It's downhill all the way from now on.


And mind you ..the date here is December 2006
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Feb 5, 2009 11:15 AM CST Obama Intent on Keeping His Word - Again
Skybow
SkybowSkybowapple valley, California USA4 Threads 1,146 Posts



Archive for Friday, April 29, 2005
Official Pariah Sudan Valuable to America’s War on Terrorism

By Ken Silverstein
April 29, 2005 in print edition A-1

The Bush administration has forged a close intelligence partnership with the Islamic regime that once welcomed Osama bin Laden here, even though Sudan continues to come under harsh U.S. and international criticism for human rights violations.

The Sudanese government, an unlikely ally in the U.S. fight against terror, remains on the most recent U.S. list of state sponsors of terrorism. At the same time, however, it has been providing access to terrorism suspects and sharing intelligence data with the United States.

Last week, the CIA sent an executive jet here to ferry the chief of Sudan’s intelligence agency to Washington for secret meetings sealing Khartoum’s sensitive and previously veiled partnership with the administration, U.S. government officials confirmed.

A decade ago Bin Laden and his fledgling Al Qaeda network were based in Khartoum. After they left for Afghanistan, the regime of Sudanese strongman Lt. Gen. Omar Hassan Ahmed Bashir retained ties with other groups the U.S. accuses of terrorism.

As recently as September, then-Secretary of State Colin L. Powell accused Sudan of committing genocide in putting down an armed rebellion in the western province of Darfur. And the administration warned that the African country’s conduct posed “an extraordinary threat to the national security” of the United States.

Behind the scenes, however, Sudan was emerging as a surprisingly valuable ally of the CIA....

During an interview at the presidential palace, Babiker said Sudan had achieved “a complete normalization of our relations with the CIA.”

Intelligence chief Maj. Gen. Salah Abdallah Gosh, who otherwise declined comment for this article, told The Times: “We have a strong partnership with the CIA. The information we have provided has been very useful to the United States.”

The paradox of a U.S.-Sudanese intelligence partnership is personified by Gosh.

Members of Congress accused him and other senior Sudanese officials of directing military attacks against civilians in Darfur. During the 1990s, the Mukhabarat assigned Gosh to be its Al Qaeda minder. In that role he had regular contacts with Bin Laden, a former Mukhabarat official confirmed.

(Gosh is almost certainly among the scores of Khartoum officials named in a sealed United Nations file as being responsible for “crimes against humanity” in Darfur provinces, in western Sudan. The UN Security Council voted on March 31 to refer the file to the International Criminal Court (ICC).)

Today, Gosh is keeping in contact with the office of CIA Director Porter J. Goss and senior agency officials.

In exchange for the collaboration, which has been largely unpublicized, Khartoum wants to be removed from the list of state sponsors of terrorism. It is also pressing Washington to lift long-standing economic sanctions barring most trade between the two countries....

Babiker, a former deputy director of the Mukhabarat, said the CIA was seeking to smooth the broader political relationship between the Bush administration and the Bashir regime....

Official acknowledgment of the relationship by Washington could also create a political backlash in the U.S....

Bin Laden moved his business and operations base to Khartoum in 1991 due to increasing conflict with Saudi Arabia, which revoked his citizenship three years later. His construction company built roads around the Sudanese capital. Al Qaeda expanded ties and offered financial support to a variety of radical Islamic groups....
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Feb 5, 2009 11:19 AM CST Obama Intent on Keeping His Word - Again
Skybow
SkybowSkybowapple valley, California USA4 Threads 1,146 Posts


Oil discovery adds new twist to Darfur tragedy
15 Jun 2005
Source: AlertNet
By Ruth Gidley

LONDON (AlertNet) - The existence of big oilfields in Sudan's war-ravaged Darfur region has added a new twist to a bloody, two-year-old conflict, potentially turning the quest for peace into tussle over resources.

Sudan announced in April that its ABCO corporation - which is 37 percent owned by Swiss company Clivenden - had begun drilling for oil in Darfur, where preliminary studies showed there were "abundant" quantities of oil.

The news has prompted some humanitarian experts to wonder whether oil could be guiding Khartoum's actions in Darfur, where a scorched-earth policy against rebels' communities has left tens of thousands dead and forced at least 2 million from their homes.

"There's some speculation that one of the reasons that these land grabs are going on is to get the African tribes off the ground so they can be controlled by the government in Khartoum," Ken Bacon, president of U.S. advocacy organisation Refugees International, told AlertNet.

Sudan's main oilfields are in the south and disputes over oil prolonged negotiations to end 20 years of civil war there. In contrast, the presence of oil in Darfur comes as a surprise to many in the humanitarian community.

The big question now is whether oil will give a motive for warring parties to speed up moves towards peace or make the conflict even harder to solve.

"The issue of oil in Darfur isn't very different from the issue of oil anywhere else," said Mike Aaronson, director general of British NGO Save the Children. "It's potentially a tremendous blessing, and potentially a tremendous handicap.

"It's not without reason that people talk about the oil curse. The reality is that many countries that have the greatest mineral wealth are also the ones with the conflicts."....
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Feb 5, 2009 11:39 AM CST Obama Intent on Keeping His Word - Again
Fallingman
FallingmanFallingmanDublin, Ireland29 Threads 12 Polls 11,436 Posts
shorter posts please!!!! laugh
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Feb 5, 2009 11:39 AM CST Obama Intent on Keeping His Word - Again
Skybow
SkybowSkybowapple valley, California USA4 Threads 1,146 Posts
I can see the ignoble reasons behind all the noble rhetoric promoted by our country for going to war, I can smell the blood on the oil, drugs and arms sales.

It nauseates me....
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Feb 5, 2009 2:23 PM CST Obama Intent on Keeping His Word - Again
ttom500
ttom500ttom500St. Cloud, Florida USA30 Threads 5 Polls 10,523 Posts
I will keep it short to keep Fallingman happy.

Gozo.....please come to 2009. If those convoy attacks were still occuring we would still be having large numbers of casualties.
When we moved into the bases out side of the cities after teh surge....it was a means to disengage. Allow the Miliki gov't
the opportunity to control the country more. This all began months ago.

If the Iraqi people did not want the leadership of the Maliki gov't...they could have voted them out office. This is called democracy.

Welcome to 2009, Gozo.
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Feb 5, 2009 2:37 PM CST Obama Intent on Keeping His Word - Again
ttom500
ttom500ttom500St. Cloud, Florida USA30 Threads 5 Polls 10,523 Posts
And Gozo....the Gov't does not own the companies in the United States. If the share holders and the board of directors wish to
give a shining star the chance to increase the profitablity of a firm (no matter what its financial condition)....it is not the gov't place to halt them.

The gov't has no fiduary responsibilities over a company until a chapter 9 or 11 bankrutpcy has been done.

The bailout into the companies for the most part ocurred prior to any bankruptcy being declared or court decided. E.G, how they spend that money of a bailout....is legally their to do...they wish to invest it into the business plan of a shining star...
Presidnet Obama does not have the legal standing for this.


Welcome to corporate law 101, Gozo.
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Feb 5, 2009 6:19 PM CST Obama Intent on Keeping His Word - Again
Fallingman
FallingmanFallingmanDublin, Ireland29 Threads 12 Polls 11,436 Posts
Skybow: I can see the ignoble reasons behind all the noble rhetoric promoted by our country for going to war, I can smell the blood on the oil, drugs and arms sales.

It nauseates me....


very true thumbs up
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Feb 5, 2009 11:06 PM CST Obama Intent on Keeping His Word - Again
Drewski
DrewskiDrewskiOlds, Alberta Canada9 Threads 343 Posts
vinny1967
In response to: Drew you are twisting the Facts to support your argument.

The fact of the matter is that the UN were against the Invasion of Iraq and a US led 'Coalition' went against the UN......

Everyone knows that and your twisting the fact to suppport yourself is laughable in my opinion.........


Support myself? I'm not the US Government Circa GW Bush Presidency so I really don't have much to support for myself. hence, I provide you with facts as to why things happened. In this case, everybody except the fifteen out of fifteen members (which is none) of the UNSC who unanimously voted to allow the US to use whatever means necessary to ensure Iraq complied and warned Iraq that it was their final opportunity.

So I suppose that somehow you feel they were all against it even though they authorized any action the US deemed necessary could be taken.

So I suppose that they were all against it even though they authorized any action the US deemed necessary could be taken.

vinny1967
In response to: NATO and the 2003 campaign against Iraq
The campaign against Iraq in 2003 was conducted by a coalition of forces from different countries, some of which were NATO member countries and some were not.
NATO as an organisation had no role in the decision to undertake the campaign nor in its conduct.
Again you are twisting the facts to support your argument......


Vinny, I said to aid America’s Global and NATO missions by having a Strategic Air Support Base there. Are you going to deny that the Enduring Bases were quite a political argument in Washington once their purpose (which I gave you above) became known?

vinny1967
In response to: I dont really care for your type of argument when it comes to this tragic war.


Vinny, my type of argument is simply to provide you with facts rather than rhetoric. Hell, you don’t even know if I approve, disapprove or even have some positive or negative issues with it.

vinny1967
In response to: The US and the coalition forces went against the UN in their action and you using arguments like NATO wanted it done does not make it right...........


This is the third time you have said this so I suppose that I shall have to ask you why then, why did the UNSC give blanket authorization for the US to do whatever they felt needed to be done to get Iraq to comply with the ceasefire terms and then, used terms such as ‘final opportunity’ ‘dire consequences’ and such?

What, in your mind does the authorization to use ‘any means necessary’ not allow the US to use?

vinny1967
In response to: The rest of it is all spin as far as I'm concerned as the real reasons for this war are very obvious to people with open minds.


And those were?

vinny1967
In response to: There has been far too much lying from the US Government in this matter it is demeaning to people.


Provide three lies that you stand behind please. All documented.

vinny1967
In response to: They should withdraw NOW and not try to force their idea of Democaracy on anyone else.........


‘Their idea of democracy?’ Pray tell Vinny, what other idea of democracy is there other than allowing people to form their own constitution and then vote according to it as to what they want?

vinny1967
In response to: Might is not Right and the outcry from the rest of the World should teach you something............It seems to have taught your New Government.......


I certainly agree that might is not right. Why don’t we allow the people to decide what they want? Then again, you are against the people forming a constitution and then voting so how would you allow people to decide what is right or not when a dictator such as Saddam is killing on average ten thousand of them per month and employing one out of ten people in his secret police?

vinny1967
In response to: Please explain with some facts what you mean with this comment.
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Feb 5, 2009 11:15 PM CST Obama Intent on Keeping His Word - Again
Drewski
DrewskiDrewskiOlds, Alberta Canada9 Threads 343 Posts
Skybow
In response to: This war has been managed with an eye to those interests and attempted to be justified by claiming a war on terror and spreading democracy etc, etc...it is all about the oil and there has been far too much damage and death already worshiping that god.


Would it be possible for you to elaborate with some facts about how the mission in Iraq was 'all about the oil' please.

Skybow
In response to: Obama was elected by an overwhelming majority of the American people who feel the War in Iraq is wrong and want the US to get out of their and that the crashing economy would be mismanaged by the Rep party. It is on their watch that these things happened, they are to blame for them.


Wouldn't lots and lots of free oil equal a booming economy? After all, it's 'all about oil' right?

Just wondering as there seems to be a certain amount of conflict in these two arguments.
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Feb 5, 2009 11:18 PM CST Obama Intent on Keeping His Word - Again
JamesBraginton
JamesBragintonJamesBragintonPalm Desert, California USA179 Posts
In response to: Plans to continue pullout of Iraq despite advice of senior military commanders.

Hope and Change. I admire his conviction and willingness to push forward but sure hope for Iraqis sake he knows what he's doing.


Were are talking about Obongo. Good night and Good luck! hahahhaa
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Feb 5, 2009 11:58 PM CST Obama Intent on Keeping His Word - Again
Drewski
DrewskiDrewskiOlds, Alberta Canada9 Threads 343 Posts
James
In response to: Were are talking about Obongo. Good night and Good luck! hahahhaa


You mean Obama of course I imagine. I love the fact he holds his word, it's a great start and, if he can combine a logical solution to the problems that his recent actions have set in motion then for sure he would good president.

His not listening to his military chiefs is nothing new for sure so, change is not here in that aspect.
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Feb 6, 2009 12:03 AM CST Obama Intent on Keeping His Word - Again
JamesBraginton
JamesBragintonJamesBragintonPalm Desert, California USA179 Posts
gozoman2: Because you haven't....produced Democracy that is......what the US HAS done is imposed itself on the country and the world by it's taking over unilaterally the decision to invade and occupy.

If you had liberated Iraq, you wouldn't be huddled in closed tightly secured compounds and traveling around the place in heavily armed convoys.....you would be cheered and welcomed in the streets by the normal average populace....

Or are so blinded by your own media campaigning that you cannot see black when it is staring you in the face?

You have only taken a country by force and occupied it....not liberated.


Yep,,u are right. It is called American Imperialism. Oh,,,and now we have Obongo. He is basically a puppet of corrupt politicians. I guess there are more spineless people here than normal people. I am ashamed of my country.
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Feb 6, 2009 12:39 AM CST Obama Intent on Keeping His Word - Again
ttom500
ttom500ttom500St. Cloud, Florida USA30 Threads 5 Polls 10,523 Posts
JamesBraginton: Yep,,u are right. It is called American Imperialism. Oh,,,and now we have Obongo. He is basically a puppet of corrupt politicians. I guess there are more spineless people here than normal people. I am ashamed of my country.


American Imperialism.....interesting concept.

I was think this the other day. What if 9/11 had occurred post WWII. Say some one high jacked a aircraft and flew it into
Empire State Building. This by the way did happen then as a accident.

But what would have...President Truman, Gen, Eisenhower, MacArthor,
and Marshall done then to such a attack by Islamic militants?

I got the vision of a 1 million man army being assembled with 25,000 tanks, and another 25,000 aircraft. Deployed first to
Lebanon then go east with orders not to stop till you reached India. Enroute would have been Damascus, Baghdad, Tehran, Kabul and Islamabad. That would have been American Imperialism.

A total over response to the intital attack on the US. But that or something like that was the mind set of the day in military and geo politcal thinking.

Consider for a moment...that most of the Islamic countries today where US Force are deployed....they are there by agreement. Consider that one of the Stan countries just decided to end a agreement. To allow the US Military presence...of 10,000...base access. Think that either the GWB or the Obama Administration is going to remain in one of these countries without an agreement? No both will leave.

That is the difference between imperialism and foreign cooperation.

Sorry you feel ashamed of your country. More time with your history books.....might have kept that from ocurring.
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