Banning the Burqa in France (192)
RayfromUSA: Actually I think you've misunderstood several things.
First
The Burka has nothing whatsoever to do with Islam nor with Sharia law.
The Burka is traditional dress for Afghanistan and part of Pakistan.
Second
The only "they" involved here is a few old women who want to wear their traditional clothing. Most Muslims in France have never even seen a burka.
Third
It is the muslims who are feeding the French delicious Kebab sandwiches. Made from lamb, much better than bacon.
First
The Burka has nothing whatsoever to do with Islam nor with Sharia law.
The Burka is traditional dress for Afghanistan and part of Pakistan.
Second
The only "they" involved here is a few old women who want to wear their traditional clothing. Most Muslims in France have never even seen a burka.
Third
It is the muslims who are feeding the French delicious Kebab sandwiches. Made from lamb, much better than bacon.
Exactly. I spoke to someone today who regularly has to work in France. She told me that burka wearing women are rare indeed, at least in public.
As for people living in different countries to their place of birth, I would suggest they think carefully about spouting on about "When in Rome.." From what I´ve seen in many countries whilst living and working, including my adopted home Spain, British and American ex-pats are the worst for arrogantly expecting their hosts to pander to their needs and wants and
don´t try to integrate fully.
JAN_is: Exactly. I spoke to someone today who regularly has to work in France. She told me that burka wearing women are rare indeed, at least in public.
As for people living in different countries to their place of birth, I would suggest they think carefully about spouting on about "When in Rome.." From what I´ve seen in many countries whilst living and working, including my adopted home Spain, British and American ex-pats are the worst for arrogantly expecting their hosts to pander to their needs and wants and
don´t try to integrate fully.
As for people living in different countries to their place of birth, I would suggest they think carefully about spouting on about "When in Rome.." From what I´ve seen in many countries whilst living and working, including my adopted home Spain, British and American ex-pats are the worst for arrogantly expecting their hosts to pander to their needs and wants and
don´t try to integrate fully.
So true
RayfromUSA: Actually I think you've misunderstood several things.
First
The Burka has nothing whatsoever to do with Islam nor with Sharia law.
The Burka is traditional dress for Afghanistan and part of Pakistan.
Second
The only "they" involved here is a few old women who want to wear their traditional clothing. Most Muslims in France have never even seen a burka.
Third
It is the muslims who are feeding the French delicious Kebab sandwiches. Made from lamb, much better than bacon.
First
The Burka has nothing whatsoever to do with Islam nor with Sharia law.
The Burka is traditional dress for Afghanistan and part of Pakistan.
Second
The only "they" involved here is a few old women who want to wear their traditional clothing. Most Muslims in France have never even seen a burka.
Third
It is the muslims who are feeding the French delicious Kebab sandwiches. Made from lamb, much better than bacon.
No, I understand it all....my reply was to Costapacket's post in particular.
I know the Burka isn't religious and it is a tradition and has nothing to do with Sharia law....jeeez, give me some credence for having some commonsense and knowledge! The burka is an islamic attire ...albeit was around long before islam arrived, but it is only worn by islamic women.
I was referring to the UK where they are trying to impose and want Sharia's law.
Iuchi_Zien: Read what I said! PERCEIVED/PERCEPTION it means I don't necessarily agree with it but that some people do and their perceptions are the reason for some of the statements made. You cannot ignore perceptions and assume they will go away. Unless they are challenged or explained they become fact, like Jews eating babies in the middle ages. If you have a problem with these perceptions then yoou need to explain WHY they are wrong not attack the person making the statement. We are ALL aware that the West is in certain ways no better than the 'middle ages laws' we see from the Islamic states but you haven't challenged those perceptions by your comment all you have done is change the subject. Oh and losing your life savings is slightly more survivable than being stoned to death for being the victim of a crime, unless of course the old man was given a lethal injection for....
They are all savagery. Rapid death on the name of an absolute law, slow and long suffering in the name of holy greed. In that case I prefer to be stoned to death in one go if you ask me. As for the other point: I have not attacked you, but I PERCEIVE you, as many Westerners, think we live in the best "of the possible worlds" and therefore they have the right say the last word about anything related to human life, and deem other cultures barbaric.
I simply disagree.
I think one has to challenge its own perceptions all the time. At least this is part of a non-western tradition (well, maybe the Old Celtic or Germanic people knew of that, but their cultures were destroyed by the dominant waves of barbarie we know nowadays)so I don´t know how I can challenge your perceptions. I just challenge the views of "the best of the possible worlds" and use simple observations to show that is not, even by an accident, something close to that.
Costapacket: You have many views and opinions so do I, all im saying is people will change and become more tolerant in time.
But how tolerant have we really become? 
Not so sure. I just think of myself.JAN_is: Exactly. I spoke to someone today who regularly has to work in France. She told me that burka wearing women are rare indeed, at least in public.
As for people living in different countries to their place of birth, I would suggest they think carefully about spouting on about "When in Rome.." From what I´ve seen in many countries whilst living and working, including my adopted home Spain, British and American ex-pats are the worst for arrogantly expecting their hosts to pander to their needs and wants and
don´t try to integrate fully.
As for people living in different countries to their place of birth, I would suggest they think carefully about spouting on about "When in Rome.." From what I´ve seen in many countries whilst living and working, including my adopted home Spain, British and American ex-pats are the worst for arrogantly expecting their hosts to pander to their needs and wants and
don´t try to integrate fully.
I wonder if we can change the thread title since the original isn't nearly as hot as it seemed, now.
Antjo39: But how tolerant have we really become? Not so sure. I just think of myself.
when threatened people become less tolerant so remove the threat.
sometimes a step backwards is the only way to make 2 steps forward.
Steve5721: No, I understand it all....my reply was to Costapacket's post in particular.
I know the Burka isn't religious and it is a tradition and has nothing to do with Sharia law....jeeez, give me some credence for having some commonsense and knowledge! The burka is an islamic attire ...albeit was around long before islam arrived, but it is only worn by islamic women.
I was referring to the UK where they are trying to impose and want Sharia's law.
I know the Burka isn't religious and it is a tradition and has nothing to do with Sharia law....jeeez, give me some credence for having some commonsense and knowledge! The burka is an islamic attire ...albeit was around long before islam arrived, but it is only worn by islamic women.
I was referring to the UK where they are trying to impose and want Sharia's law.
What is about Sharia to be imposed in the UK?
bohdiprana: to comment would be to follow ... I refuse.
you 2 sticking together again
2 bodies one mind
Costapacket: when threatened people become less tolerant so remove the threat.
sometimes a step backwards is the only way to make 2 steps forward.
sometimes a step backwards is the only way to make 2 steps forward.
works when all are doing the same thing for the same reason, which is hopefully to reach tolerance. I also think great waves of intolerance (or any negativity) are actually the harbinger of the tolerance wave.(positivity) ..but wtf do I know.
Antjo39: T
As for the other point: I have not attacked you, but I PERCEIVE you, as many Westerners, think we live in the best "of the possible worlds" and therefore they have the right say the last word about anything related to human life, and deem other cultures barbaric.
As for the other point: I have not attacked you, but I PERCEIVE you, as many Westerners, think we live in the best "of the possible worlds" and therefore they have the right say the last word about anything related to human life, and deem other cultures barbaric.
Firstly you are wrong I think the world is broken, seriously broken. We have democracies and Republics, run by Dictators with populations who don't believe or trust the politicians they elect and who refuse to take collective responsibility for their governments actions. We are frighteningly close to religious warfare breaking out across Asia and Africa and you say I think we live in a 'best of possible worlds'? I and everybody else are, however, entitled to our views of the world, no matter how offensive or hateful they may be perceived to be and if I, for example, find the stoning of a victim of crime barbaric then it is up to you to say why I am wrong, accept my point of view or put forward an alternative.
bohdiprana: works when all are doing the same thing for the same reason, which is hopefully to reach tolerance. I also think great waves of intolerance (or any negativity) are actually the harbinger of the tolerance wave.(positivity) ..
but wtf do I know.
but wtf do I know.
I think we agree but im not sure
I heard Sarkozy is so paranoid that he is even sending one illegal immigrant alone in a gigantic plane back home. Don't fully trust him!
. Don't fully trust him! Iuchi_Zien: Firstly you are wrong I think the world is broken, seriously broken. We have democracies and Republics, run by Dictators with populations who don't believe or trust the politicians they elect and who refuse to take collective responsibility for their governments actions. We are frighteningly close to religious warfare breaking out across Asia and Africa and you say I think we live in a 'best of possible worlds'? I and everybody else are, however, entitled to our views of the world, no matter how offensive or hateful they may be perceived to be and if I, for example, find the stoning of a victim of crime barbaric then it is up to you to say why I am wrong, accept my point of view or put forward an alternative.
When I talk about "that world" I eman that Western world of their homes and all that, their Civilization. Certainly the havoc and turmoil would be deemed as part of the natural being of the barbaric peoples outside the civilised centre.Anyway, I apologise if you don´t see the West as the best possible result of human evolution. I read your points, try to understand them and take the benefit to learn from other people´s opinions.
I don`t know how much You`ve heard about "The Muhammad drawings" which were printed in a Danish newspaper in Sept. 2005?
The were charicatours of Muhammad as a phedophile - a suicidal bomber e.t.c??
And they were printed in the "name of freedom to speech"???
Which led to a lot of ado in the Arabic countries...
Banning from danish cheese/milk products in Sadi Arabia - burn down of a danish embassy in Syria - burning of danish flags in various countries... And in Denmark demonstrations from right wing sides with burning the Koran...
But how was the reaction from danish muslims??
(I refer to those muslims who are not radical..)
First: astonishment combined with anxiety.
Next: An obligement to react - (mostly because of questions from other muslims AND danes)
Finally: Feeling forced to choose "a side" - because obviously there were no room left for keeping the religion private in their heart. Suddenly it was not legal or possible to be democratic AND muslim. They were told that muslims did`nt understand the term: Freedom to speech..
And the muslims in Denmark asked: Why did we escape from our countries? Because of NO freedom to speech....
They ban the minarets in Switzerland - now burqas - and next???
The burqa problem is so vanishing small - so is the veil discussion. A lot of muslim teenagers actually use the veil as a riot against their parents... Though some are forced too..
But that is not the main problem here. Dressing codes and minarets are not the true subject. Why do the Europeans feel so threatened?? Ban - Ban - Ban (In the name of ????)
We have a big problem.. Terrorists!
And that problem is shared by christians, muslims, catholics, buddhists etc.
But please reflect the issue WHY we have this terrorist problem - those who feel innocent please throw the first stone
(Afraid this thread could end up endless...)
The were charicatours of Muhammad as a phedophile - a suicidal bomber e.t.c??
And they were printed in the "name of freedom to speech"???
Which led to a lot of ado in the Arabic countries...
Banning from danish cheese/milk products in Sadi Arabia - burn down of a danish embassy in Syria - burning of danish flags in various countries... And in Denmark demonstrations from right wing sides with burning the Koran...
But how was the reaction from danish muslims??
(I refer to those muslims who are not radical..)
First: astonishment combined with anxiety.
Next: An obligement to react - (mostly because of questions from other muslims AND danes)
Finally: Feeling forced to choose "a side" - because obviously there were no room left for keeping the religion private in their heart. Suddenly it was not legal or possible to be democratic AND muslim. They were told that muslims did`nt understand the term: Freedom to speech..
And the muslims in Denmark asked: Why did we escape from our countries? Because of NO freedom to speech....
They ban the minarets in Switzerland - now burqas - and next???
The burqa problem is so vanishing small - so is the veil discussion. A lot of muslim teenagers actually use the veil as a riot against their parents... Though some are forced too..
But that is not the main problem here. Dressing codes and minarets are not the true subject. Why do the Europeans feel so threatened?? Ban - Ban - Ban (In the name of ????)
We have a big problem.. Terrorists!
And that problem is shared by christians, muslims, catholics, buddhists etc.
But please reflect the issue WHY we have this terrorist problem - those who feel innocent please throw the first stone
(Afraid this thread could end up endless...)
Antjo39: When I talk about "that world" I eman that Western world of their homes and all that, their Civilization. Certainly the havoc and turmoil would be deemed as part of the natural being of the barbaric peoples outside the civilised centre.
Anyway, I apologise if you don´t see the West as the best possible result of human evolution. I read your points, try to understand them and take the benefit to learn from other people´s opinions.
Anyway, I apologise if you don´t see the West as the best possible result of human evolution. I read your points, try to understand them and take the benefit to learn from other people´s opinions.
youve convinced me, im off to live in a mud hut.
Costapacket: youve convinced me, im off to live in a mud hut.
I never meant to convince you... is it the point of discussion? the mud hut is not a bad idea , let me tell you... try once...
u2Kitty: I don`t know how much You`ve heard about "The Muhammad drawings" which were printed in a Danish newspaper in Sept. 2005?
The were charicatours of Muhammad as a phedophile - a suicidal bomber e.t.c??
And they were printed in the "name of freedom to speech"???
Which led to a lot of ado in the Arabic countries...
Banning from danish cheese/milk products in Sadi Arabia - burn down of a danish embassy in Syria - burning of danish flags in various countries... And in Denmark demonstrations from right wing sides with burning the Koran...
But how was the reaction from danish muslims??
(I refer to those muslims who are not radical..)
First: astonishment combined with anxiety.
Next: An obligement to react - (mostly because of questions from other muslims AND danes)
Finally: Feeling forced to choose "a side" - because obviously there were no room left for keeping the religion private in their heart. Suddenly it was not legal or possible to be democratic AND muslim. They were told that muslims did`nt understand the term: Freedom to speech..
And the muslims in Denmark asked: Why did we escape from our countries? Because of NO freedom to speech....
They ban the minarets in Switzerland - now burqas - and next???
The burqa problem is so vanishing small - so is the veil discussion. A lot of muslim teenagers actually use the veil as a riot against their parents... Though some are forced too..
But that is not the main problem here. Dressing codes and minarets are not the true subject. Why do the Europeans feel so threatened?? Ban - Ban - Ban (In the name of ????)
We have a big problem.. Terrorists!
And that problem is shared by christians, muslims, catholics, buddhists etc.
But please reflect the issue WHY we have this terrorist problem - those who feel innocent please throw the first stone
(Afraid this thread could end up endless...)
Thanks for such a good explanation of facts.The were charicatours of Muhammad as a phedophile - a suicidal bomber e.t.c??
And they were printed in the "name of freedom to speech"???
Which led to a lot of ado in the Arabic countries...
Banning from danish cheese/milk products in Sadi Arabia - burn down of a danish embassy in Syria - burning of danish flags in various countries... And in Denmark demonstrations from right wing sides with burning the Koran...
But how was the reaction from danish muslims??
(I refer to those muslims who are not radical..)
First: astonishment combined with anxiety.
Next: An obligement to react - (mostly because of questions from other muslims AND danes)
Finally: Feeling forced to choose "a side" - because obviously there were no room left for keeping the religion private in their heart. Suddenly it was not legal or possible to be democratic AND muslim. They were told that muslims did`nt understand the term: Freedom to speech..
And the muslims in Denmark asked: Why did we escape from our countries? Because of NO freedom to speech....
They ban the minarets in Switzerland - now burqas - and next???
The burqa problem is so vanishing small - so is the veil discussion. A lot of muslim teenagers actually use the veil as a riot against their parents... Though some are forced too..
But that is not the main problem here. Dressing codes and minarets are not the true subject. Why do the Europeans feel so threatened?? Ban - Ban - Ban (In the name of ????)
We have a big problem.. Terrorists!
And that problem is shared by christians, muslims, catholics, buddhists etc.
But please reflect the issue WHY we have this terrorist problem - those who feel innocent please throw the first stone
(Afraid this thread could end up endless...)
Antjo39: I never meant to convince you... is it the point of discussion?
the mud hut is not a bad idea , let me tell you... try once...
the mud hut is not a bad idea , let me tell you... try once...
less stress nothing wrong with that.
Costapacket: I think we agree but im not sure
Yes we do ..(don't worry I'll handle the details of agreement lol) but now you have to join the Antjo Bohdi club and pay some dues.
bohdiprana: Too late .. this ban is in effect since 2001
Now I understand why that beautiful big-breasted brunnette from London did not sleep with me that night I could finally make her drunk ......I feel better now, it was nothing personal...
u2Kitty: We have a big problem.. Terrorists!
And that problem is shared by christians, muslims, catholics, buddhists etc.
But please reflect the issue WHY we have this terrorist problem - those who feel innocent please throw the first stone
(Afraid this thread could end up endless...)
And that problem is shared by christians, muslims, catholics, buddhists etc.
But please reflect the issue WHY we have this terrorist problem - those who feel innocent please throw the first stone
(Afraid this thread could end up endless...)
Why do we (meaning the world, not just the west) have a problem with terrorism?
Because small groups want to impose their standards/beliefs upon the majority and the only way to do this is through violence. Every time we change our laws, restrict our freedoms to fight this we have lost a battle. There are ways to deal with terrorists,
1. Treat them like the petty thuggish CRIMINALS they actually are.
2. Engage them in dialogue.
3. Remember that our freedom fighter is another persons terrorist (The US in particular ought to consider that one. Contras, Mujahdin etc)
bohdiprana: Yes we do ..(don't worry I'll handle the details of agreement lol) but now you have to join the Antjo Bohdi club and pay some dues.
we may have met in another life.
Iuchi_Zien:
1. Treat them like the petty thuggish CRIMINALS they actually are.
2. Engage them in dialogue.
3. Remember that our freedom fighter is another persons terrorist (The US in particular ought to consider that one. Contras, Mujahdin etc)
1. Treat them like the petty thuggish CRIMINALS they actually are.
2. Engage them in dialogue.
3. Remember that our freedom fighter is another persons terrorist (The US in particular ought to consider that one. Contras, Mujahdin etc)
4. Stop breeding them!! (In hidden interests like oil - gold) and what about weapons??)!!!!!
bohdiprana: I wonder if we can change the thread title since the original isn't nearly as hot as it seemed, now.
Are you trying to say I went off topic?
Perhaps I did in the post you responded to, but I did post way way back in this thread more to the point!
Costapacket: we may have met in another life.
wearing a burqa no doubt.
Don't worry it is club garb now as ruled by antjo... even the sheep flip flops were his idea.
JAN_is: Are you trying to say I went off topic?
Perhaps I did in the post you responded to, but I did post way way back in this thread more to the point!
Perhaps I did in the post you responded to, but I did post way way back in this thread more to the point!
No you were on topic in saying this isn't such a big deal. (5 burqas and people we're ranting about here lol ) The bigger deal is americans not acclimating. Dam fools and their hawaiin shirts and cowboy hats.
bohdiprana: No you were on topic in saying this isn't such a big deal. (5 burqas and people we're ranting about here lol ) The bigger deal is americans not acclimating. Dam fools and their hawaiin shirts and cowboy hats.
Now, you see. You have to start a different business: you were thinking of buying the burkas at home to sell them in France.... 5 is not a decent demand..Let´s change the subject now then...
Antjo39:
"When the West awakens, it is because China will start giving it orders"
"When the West awakens, it is because China will start giving it orders"
That's so true Antjo.
Only even now, when China is already giving the orders, (albeit very quietly) the sheeple of the west are still unaware.
They won't really wake up until the dollar collapses.
The current situation is very similar to that described in the movie "rollover" (only substitute "the Chinese" for "the Arabs".
As described in the film, it's in everybody's interest that the transition of wealth and power be as quiet, smooth, and uneventful as possible.
But any attempt to prevent that transfer will only assure that it will be occur suddenly and cataclysmically.
The cause has been decades of US living far beyond its means.
And the resultant correction will require years of living far below its "normal" place.
The crisis has been coming for a long time.
The following video is already 3 years old.
And the situation it describes has been building for decades.
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Too much ado about nothing...
I`ve never personally seen anyone wearing it in Denmark
Whahahaaaaaaa