Should Kosovo be allowed to join Europe ? (46)

Mar 21, 2008 6:42 AM CST Should Kosovo be allowed to join Europe ?
Same here in CH.
Can't understand the Haste.
Politicians usually procrastinate on everything else.
In this case it would have been a good thing.
But our Foreign Minister thinks she's on a roll.
Trying to make Foreign Policy all on her own.
Always consults afterfoot in mouth
A bit of Prudence in that Matter wouldn't have hurtconversing wave
Mar 21, 2008 7:18 PM CST Should Kosovo be allowed to join Europe ?
christivanova
christivanovachristivanovaKazanlak, Stara Zagora Bulgaria31 Posts
NelsonOKC: Unless my geography teacher was wrong, Kosovo has always been in Europe.

devil devil
Sorry but i am not agree with you..Geographic -yes .All we are in Europa ,BG also but we are in EU one years ago.And Bulgaria is very old country ,with old history etc..
What is really KOsovo?

roll eyes roll eyes
Mar 21, 2008 7:40 PM CST Should Kosovo be allowed to join Europe ?
christivanova
christivanovachristivanovaKazanlak, Stara Zagora Bulgaria31 Posts
It's all the same was happen.infortunatelyroll eyes
But this the wish of bg politicians.more of bg peopels are not agree with this decisions.Very big folly.
And we the ,ordinares peopels can't understend bg politicians,whose interests defended they--our /of bg peopels /of some foregins,another's.
Very sadly indeed about us.
doh roll eyes devil
Mar 21, 2008 9:22 PM CST Should Kosovo be allowed to join Europe ?
CuspofMagic
CuspofMagicCuspofMagiclight, South Australia Australia278 Threads 7,904 Posts
mataselo: As things stand today Kosovo has recently declared independence from
Serbia. Kosovo is also the only country outside Europe that uses the Euro for currency...Just interested that all....



--- yes
Mar 21, 2008 11:28 PM CST Should Kosovo be allowed to join Europe ?
breezee
breezeebreezeeathens, Attica Greece20 Threads 1,136 Posts
christivanova: Sorry but i am not agree with you..Geographic -yes .All we are in Europa ,BG also but we are in EU one years ago.And Bulgaria is very old country ,with old history etc..
What is really KOsovo?

If I am not mistaken, Kosovo was a REGION (btw, NOT a country -these geography teachers must have been WAYEE ahead of their time) of much cultural / historical significance to the SERBS.
It is where their most important monasteries are etc... so these people must be feeling that they are losing a great part of their heritage.

Ottomans, Balkan wars, two world wars, communism, international politics have all had a part in messing up the balkans BEYOND RECOGNITION.

This Kosovo independence thing has happened too quickly, imo, with little consideration for what belonged to the Serbs for centuries.

The war in Kosovo about 10 years ago was NOT the beginning and end of history in that region. It is an extremely unsettled, troubled area where Serbs have suffered their own share of loss and persecution in the past - god help the ones still in the north now.

But this is a fast new world - the age of information is upon us - the age of lies and manipulation, it seems. Actually lies and manipulation have always been a part of human history, but we always liked to blame illiteracy and ignorance. Now there is education for all and the net for information (and misinformation). Who are we to blame now??
Mar 22, 2008 4:20 AM CST Should Kosovo be allowed to join Europe ?
christivanova
christivanovachristivanovaKazanlak, Stara Zagora Bulgaria31 Posts
breezee: If I am not mistaken, Kosovo was a REGION (btw, NOT a country -these geography teachers must have been WAYEE ahead of their time) of much cultural / historical significance to the SERBS.
It is where their most important monasteries are etc... so these people must be feeling that they are losing a great part of their heritage.

Ottomans, Balkan wars, two world wars, communism, international politics have all had a part in messing up the balkans BEYOND RECOGNITION.

This Kosovo independence thing has happened too quickly, imo, with little consideration for what belonged to the Serbs for centuries.

The war in Kosovo about 10 years ago was NOT the beginning and end of history in that region. It is an extremely unsettled, troubled area where Serbs have suffered their own share of loss and persecution in the past - god help the ones still in the north now.

But this is a fast new world - the age of information is upon us - the age of lies and manipulation, it seems. Actually lies and manipulation have always been a part of human history, but we always liked to blame illiteracy and ignorance. Now there is education for all and the net for information (and misinformation). Who are we to blame now??

The Balkan Peninsula have been always,now is and will be a tender place .Ottomans,Balkan war and 2 world wars--all we on the Balkan have lost from the a worlds powers.It is a true.I think all we known what is the true.
This subject is so long and old .
doh
Mar 22, 2008 5:22 AM CST Should Kosovo be allowed to join Europe ?
natasha555
natasha555natasha555Plovdiv, Bulgaria14 Threads 649 Posts
mataselo: As things stand today Kosovo has recently declared independence from
Serbia. Kosovo is also the only country outside Europe that uses the Euro for currency...Just interested that all....



Fact-Kosovo has declared independence from Serbia and this has been recognized by several countries,include Bulgaria.This is a chance for Kosovo to break free,and malchance for Serbia-to lose 15%of its territory. As independant country/not ex-province of Serbia!/Kosovo should be a member of EU, soon or later ...
The question here is:how would you define which territories should have the right to declare independence?!Because there should be an objective and universal rule that could be used./?/Is it -Law or Justice or Politics/=political interests/ ???.
1. LAW- as we like to believe -after WWII it was decided that for the wellbeing of all of us Wars for territory should be stopped once and for all.That way the borders of countries have been clearly defined .According to The UN Charter-the borders of Serbia are protected by International law,so that Serbia ,by the way includes Kosovo/still/.So it is clear -a legal duty of every country in the world is to respect UN Resolutions!Ahhh,but we do know that some powers nowadays do not respect all the time International law,or there is a respect -but selectively...

2. If Justice makes the rule of a certain grour to a terriroty- this would be wonderful...Pity and unfortunately right on a territory is a matter of perceptions.There is seldom a territory that at some point in history has not been populated by different ethnic groups...

3 . Real Politics/and their interests/-it seems just they are leading link-strong nd powerful!In this case -powers in the world have no respect to certain countries and no consistency either...thumbs down
Mar 22, 2008 7:26 AM CST Should Kosovo be allowed to join Europe ?
christivanova
christivanovachristivanovaKazanlak, Stara Zagora Bulgaria31 Posts
christivanova: It's all the same was happen.infortunately
But this the wish of bg politicians.more of bg peopels are not agree with this decisions.Very big folly.
And we the ,ordinares peopels can't understend bg politicians,whose interests defended they--our /of bg peopels /of some foregins,another's.
Very sadly indeed about us.

This was decision of bg government,/sorry about the mistake/
Mar 22, 2008 8:43 AM CST Should Kosovo be allowed to join Europe ?
solitare
solitaresolitareBariloche, Rio Negro Argentina40 Threads 4,041 Posts
2. If Justice makes the rule of a certain grour to a terriroty- this would be wonderful...Pity and unfortunately right on a territory... "There is seldom a territory that at some point in history has not been populated by different ethnic groups..."


The above seems to be the best approach. Politics should and MUST be kept out of these questions. As noted above, the regions and territories over the centuries have been taken and occupied by many ethnic groups; but for the most part, rarely re-taken with the huge exception of the lands once under the Turkish Ottomans.
The EU as a whole should perhaps try and devise a fair formula for picking judges to over see and implement a total revision of the Balkan issues, that will be unanimous in support from the various populations. To be sure boundaries will have to be adjusted in the long run but hopefully without interference by politicians who are usually gone after one or two elections while the bulk of the people; the voters remain...or resort to war by either popular but minority in numbers of people or by staged events in order to promote a war...I would hope that all of us Europeans have had enough of wars among ourselves(!), but who really knows, perhaps it'll be the old line of "just one more to finally settle everything" spiel....If a formula can be obtained with majority support and borders re-drawn to majority satisfaction, all costs etc. of moving any numbers of peoples should be shared by the entire EU; it would be far cheaper than any...ANY war costs.
One absolute non-negotiable proviso to any formula and /any settlement of these territorial/ regional disputed and anger would be that there be no "ethnic cleansing"; that must be "a no-no". Hopefully we as Europeans are...have finally matured enough to not attack ourselves anymore...it is the same if we would attack and kill members of our own families or relatives! Just my opinion on what needs to be done and of my own opinion of us as Europeans as a whole but thankful for our diversity...
Mar 22, 2008 8:55 AM CST Should Kosovo be allowed to join Europe ?
Manolito
ManolitoManolitoa strfilled galaxy far faraway, Greater London, England UK19 Threads 1 Polls 1,611 Posts
I posted about 2 weeks ago what would consitude a brief attempt of an oppinion on this subject, only to realize later that some subjects are better left to each one of us to make what we want out of them.

Of course, everyone has the right to an oppinion and the forums serve us all in the exchange of those oppinions between us. But lets not forget that there are subjects, such as this, that are very sensitive for some people - especially those that are involved in it - like Albanians and Serbs. I would also add Macedonians, Greeks and Bulgarians for other reasons that they would understand. For people that do not have a conection to the region, it's just an oppinion and they express it, but for the people that live with this daily, it is the hurtfull new world order that lives outside any sense of justice and international law.

In this matters, facts deriving from history are facts. They are there, subject to interpratation though and each one of us can go study them and learn them. Yes, Mataselo, i know very well my Balkan and world war history as not only have i studied them vigorously but i have also lived briefly in Greece, Macedonia, Serbia and now Romania - and i speak some of those languages. I also have a few litterate friends from these countries with whom i discuss these things. I should add that you cannot learn about this things from google and wikipedia, it will be a futile effort that will only give you the half-knowledge required to go on pompously insulting people with what you dont know.

If the "sense of justice" some people are promoting here were to prevail in all of the region then we should be justifully having:
- Greece invading and occupiyng/annexing half the FYROM up to Veles, 15% of Albania just beyond the Ohrid lake, 30 miles north of the Bulgarian border and definately into Turkey to Instabul (kosntantinoupoli) and all the Turkish coast line down to Izmir (Smyrni) and beyond.
-Serbia should be holding 40% of the north Albania, all of the FYROM and parts of Croatia and Bosnia-Herzegovina
-Bulgaria should have moved south as down as Thesalonika, taking 20% of of Greece's territory, the east 50% of the FYROM and the Turkish part of Thrake.
And thats just mentioning some.
Or, they could start occupiyng these areas (as it seems to be more acceptable in the modern era of *free information movement*, then have their settlers start troubles so they could come to the rescue. Something like this happened in 1974.

These were the "Great ideas" of those nations in the beggining of the privious century. After countless bloodsheds, wars, crimes in that region, including 2 World Wars, international treaties were brought forward that state the borders of each country and bound the international community to protect the territorial integrity of the UN countries - up and foremost.

What happened with Kosovo is a clear, definite breach and dissolvment of the resolutions that were forged on countless bodies during the previous century. It opens Aeolus's bags for all the region and the wind shall blow on us all in the years to come. There were many other forms of resolutions that could have been implemented in this case, such as a loose form of confederation.

But noooooo, that would seriously hamper the interest of Great wee-wee G.W.Bush - who by the way is unwelcome to all balkan countries except for Albania. He goes to greece/serbia/etc and is greeted with molotov bombs and rotten tomatoes. He goes to Albania and is greated with hugs and kisses (ok, they also stole his Rolex, but so what? rolling on the floor laughing )
Mar 22, 2008 9:00 AM CST Should Kosovo be allowed to join Europe ?
Manolito
ManolitoManolitoa strfilled galaxy far faraway, Greater London, England UK19 Threads 1 Polls 1,611 Posts
and one final comment concerning the OP:

The principal question was wether we would like Kossovo to join the EU.

realistically, it is going to join the EU one way or another. It's common sense. But I, ME, do not have to like it; and i don't.

The european union was founded and stands for acceptance of cultural differences, in a common environment. Heck, the EU itself is progressing towards integration and the creation of a big Federation of so many countries with different cultures / languages / etc.

WHY should i be happy to admit a "country" (i.e. Kossovo) in the EU that is in direct opposition to everything that EU stands for? And it is a shame for the EU that they did this (recognizing kossovo) because the nullify everything THEY stand for: They could have pushed for a federation or cofederation between kosovars and serbs, like the ones used all over the EU AND by the EU it self.
Mar 22, 2008 10:19 PM CST Should Kosovo be allowed to join Europe ?
CuspofMagic
CuspofMagicCuspofMagiclight, South Australia Australia278 Threads 7,904 Posts
---i suggest we issue everyone with a world passport and cut all this red tape
Mar 22, 2008 10:56 PM CST Should Kosovo be allowed to join Europe ?
solitare
solitaresolitareBariloche, Rio Negro Argentina40 Threads 4,041 Posts
CuspofMagic: ---i suggest we issue everyone with a world passport and cut all this red tape


LOL! Fine by me; I still have several World Identity Cards in multiple languages and UN issued Stateless Passports issued back in the 70's under different names and some still blank! (I kept them and my old "Get out of jail cards" from various Intelligence agencies and Interpol, in the event of a "rainy day"..%D )
Mar 22, 2008 11:14 PM CST Should Kosovo be allowed to join Europe ?
CuspofMagic
CuspofMagicCuspofMagiclight, South Australia Australia278 Threads 7,904 Posts
solitare: LOL! Fine by me; I still have several World Identity Cards in multiple languages and UN issued Stateless Passports issued back in the 70's under different names and some still blank! (I kept them and my old "Get out of jail cards" from various Intelligence agencies and Interpol, in the event of a "rainy day"..%D )


---LoL --- yer cant escape the dossier- Soli-- not only are they netting us -- they're tying us up with our own strands
Mar 24, 2008 10:47 AM CST Should Kosovo be allowed to join Europe ?
twinself
twinselftwinself..., Majjistral Malta36 Threads 1,347 Posts
Twinnie can't really make out this *political* stuff..... Aren't we all children of the same planet?

dunno

Whoever created us must have missed *stamping* that into our brain! Oh..what a wonderful world this would be, and would have been!



dunno sigh teddybear
Mar 25, 2008 12:08 AM CST Should Kosovo be allowed to join Europe ?
CuspofMagic
CuspofMagicCuspofMagiclight, South Australia Australia278 Threads 7,904 Posts
twinself: Twinnie can't really make out this *political* stuff..... Aren't we all children of the same planet?



Whoever created us must have missed *stamping* that into our brain! Oh..what a wonderful world this would be, and would have been!


--- this twin2 cant capisco it either
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