Yes, maps of different ages only reflect different situations, impossible to extrapolate to the people of today. Do you know how many people thinks Alexander The Great is his National Hero in the zone of Greece, the Balkans and Turkey? The past, maps and people....impossible fix concepts with this. Do you know what word use the arabs to define the Europeans? Rumi. It means "Romans" and include the Turks, even the Anatolian Turks!!! The word is ancient, started to use before someone drew a divided line between Asia and Europe.
"Ancient times" is a long long time, maps changed, empires dissappeared, people and culture changed and the kingdoms of Juda and Israel joined. And time continuously changed maps.
I don't think so, the Christianism spread during the first centuries basically between Jews and their descendants didn't left their land. After the most people of all Near and middle East was jewish or Christian in the time of Mohammed started his predication, and after the conversions were fast and massive, it was a historical phenomenom, a small group of nomads joined great empires, different cultures and other people. In the territory today called Israel too.
Israel has never really had any genuine force of its own. The Western nations have always underwritten the state both economically and militarily. Israel has received more aid from the US and the west than any other nation on earth. And per capita, the citizens of Israel have received more aid from the US than US citizens have received.
In the past, there was a strategic reason for supporting Israel as a bastion of US/UK influence in the middle east. Preventing the rise of a powerful Pan-Islamic super-state with unlimited petro-wealth. The presence of Israel and all its weapons obligated Arab states to seek super-power protection and opened the door for US bases all over the place.
But now, the US has its bases. And since the globalists control the West, They really don't need an insane nationalist power in the mid-east anymore. The state of Israel is now a dangerous and volatile island of fierce racial-nationalistic extremism just at a time when the West is trying to move towards globalism.
The destructive invasion of Jerusalem foretold by Christ will surely arise out of the already growing conflict between Globalism and Zionism. quote]
You realize, WOW FACTOR, why explain that the three possible scenarios in the other poll? A religious or ideological alliance is more vulnerable than one based on mutual interest, and yet each partner should be a must.[/quote]
Hey, WOW FACTOR, I only said what is in large types, the rest was wroten by this guy, I only quoted.
Israel has never really had any genuine force of its own. The Western nations have always underwritten the state both economically and militarily. Israel has received more aid from the US and the west than any other nation on earth. And per capita, the citizens of Israel have received more aid from the US than US citizens have received.
In the past, there was a strategic reason for supporting Israel as a bastion of US/UK influence in the middle east. Preventing the rise of a powerful Pan-Islamic super-state with unlimited petro-wealth. The presence of Israel and all its weapons obligated Arab states to seek super-power protection and opened the door for US bases all over the place.
But now, the US has its bases. And since the globalists control the West, They really don't need an insane nationalist power in the mid-east anymore. The state of Israel is now a dangerous and volatile island of fierce racial-nationalistic extremism just at a time when the West is trying to move towards globalism.
The destructive invasion of Jerusalem foretold by Christ will surely arise out of the already growing conflict between Globalism and Zionism. quote]
You realize, WOW FACTOR, why explain that the three possible scenarios in the other poll? A religious or ideological alliance is more vulnerable than one based on mutual interest, and yet each partner should be a must.
No doubt about Israel is their land, the question is what happens with others that lived there. They were jews before convert, forced or volunteer, to Christianism before, and Islam after. But it's the same people, or lived there during generations.
In Greece and Turkey in Izmir, for example, a disaster, and the Turks also suffered in other areas. The method of exchange of populations is advocated by some, there are worse things.
The Gaza Strip has no legitimate government, and although some countries may recognize it, does not represent its unhabitants. So with such talk is useless and it would appear that it is recognized legitimacy.
The AP is different, has enough legitimacy even to negociate borders or rights of unhabitants in Israel, such as inmigration Conventions, any kind of arrangements, if Israel agree. But must be recognized legitimacy before, and a little territory, as a Fiscal Paradise would be, ha ha.
Of course if there ever were Jews so was their land. But also the land of those inhabitants who converted to Christianity or Islam and those who had immigrated generations ago, and the Jews of the Diaspora.
Sometimes my poor English is misunderstood, first I wanted to say that the right to defend Israel so they can expel their enemies PROVISIONAL the duration of hostilities, but not definitively denying them their right of return nor a non-belligerent civilians.
And the illegal character of what was British Mandate, was only to the extent which denied Jews the right of return. In other aspects it was legal.
I did not understand well. In another poll I already wrote that, since the basis that a have recognized the "right of return" as a fundamental principle and therefore timeless, Jews were entitled to return with or without anyone's permission to Israel. And also to exercise the "Right of Resistance" (also defined by UN) against the illegal British occupation. The Jews had the right to exercise that strength against the "Palestinians" or "Arabs" who tried to prevent his return, but also to expel them because it is their country of origin. The U.N. does not limit the concept of "country of origin," no matter what anyone may originate from three generations before or since 3,000 years earlier.
I think Judea and Samaria belongs to the Palestinians, but if we look back belongs to the Ottomans. And if we go back to David and Solomon does not belong to anyone so anyone can claim it, the Palestinians also.
Centuries ago the King of Spain sent a letter to the King of France asking him to leave the French colonies in America because they belonged to the Crown of Spain.
And the King of France replied in another letter: "Tell me what part of Adam's Testament is written that and we will."
Ok, I'll try again. Without examples, all partitions, each time a territory is divided, both sides minorities are persecuted and fled to his side should abandon their properties. Sometimes it is not so bad, sometimes there are a lot of blood.
I'm not trying to blame Great Britain for everything that happened, but created a situation that confronted the people. That also say many of the thousands of Irish living in Barcelona, without rancor, I think.
What happened next was not only the fault of the Palestinians, but many Arab countries felt threatened or forced to help.
I believe that most Palestinians were born after 1948 and not be blamed either.
In any case it does not deprive them of any rights or deprives the Israeli. What legal argument is that?
When concerning countries, partition generally means the division of a country into two or more separate states or countries.
Partition was not something that appeared out of thin air, the problems of coexistance weren't controlled by British rule before and after leaving Eire, India or Palestine.
After the division, citizens of both countries as were faced with rioting and bloodshed, or they fled their homelands.
Now the Palestinians pay for other's mistakes, while Partition became Occupation and perhaps expulsion.
The Israeli uses the expression "arabs" thinking all the muslim are the same thing, and doesn't worry if they could be accepted in other countries and lose their properties and homes.
Here are many people who deny the right of Israel to exist and, as the UN.
We simply say that Palestine, too.
Every day hundreds of thousands of Palestinian workers entering Israel to work as laborers, because they can not live there?
You prefer they are be armed at the other side of the border, or unarmed in Israel?
Or if everyone wants is to stop fighting for a few feet of land, give Israeli passport and give them the right to work, travel and live on their land. Do any proposal if mine are stupid.
Only a few on this site are denied all rights, without suggesting any kind of solution.
GUZMAN1 Forum Posts (5,101)
RE: THREAD IN SUPPORT OF ISRAEL
Yes, maps of different ages only reflect different situations, impossible to extrapolate to the people of today. Do you know how many people thinks Alexander The Great is his National Hero in the zone of Greece, the Balkans and Turkey? The past, maps and people....impossible fix concepts with this.Do you know what word use the arabs to define the Europeans? Rumi.
It means "Romans" and include the Turks, even the Anatolian Turks!!! The word is ancient, started to use before someone drew a divided line between Asia and Europe.