Back up Jack!!! You always claim it was state forces who protected nationalist areas at the start of the troubles. I've always said it was PFR. We can both go back and check who said what..
The other factor that you refuse to acknowledge is the pograms stopped because peace lines got erected preventing them. It's kinda hard trying to burn down a neighbour hood when you have to climb over walls topped with barbed wire. I honestly can't remember the RUC or BA ever clearing uo local crime. I can give you lots of examples of when the PIRA stopped peoples houses getting broken into, pensioners robbed etc.. I could easily youtube evidence of it.
As recently as this year it has been found that the PSNI helped Loyalist run amok during their flag protest. Take 3mins from your life and listen to what Judge Seamus Tracy said..By the way how loyal are the loyalists when the attack the state forces?????
The post-1968 violence dwarfs any previous conflict in scale, intensity and duration. More people have died in communal violence in the past quarter century in Northern Ireland — 3,289 by the end of 1999 — than in any similar period in Ireland over the past two centuries, with the possible exception of the 1922-23 Irish Civil War (Table 1). In addition, over 40,000 people have been injured, representing almost 3 percent of the population. If we extrapolate these figures to Britain, some 111,000 people would have died, with 1.4 million people injured. This represents just under half of British deaths (265,000) during the Second World War. Further extrapolating the deaths to the United States, some 526,000 would have died, more than died during the Second World War (405,000) and nine times the American war dead in Vietnam.
'The large number of incidents underlines the intensity of the conflict, with over 35,000 shooting incidents and nearly 15,000 bomb explosions. Many of these bomb explosions have occurred in Belfast or Londonderry, which were the targets of intense bombing campaigns by the IRA during the 1970s. Such levels of violence, maintained over a long period of time, have inevitably drawn many people into the paramilitary organizations. Estimates of paramilitary membership are difficult to make, but police statistics show that since 1972, over 17,000 people have been charged with terrorist offences, and it is likely that more people in Northern Ireland have participated in illegal paramilitary organizations than at any time since the United Irishmen rising of 1798. Once again, extrapolating these figures to Britain or the US show the intensity of the violence; shooting incidents alone would have numbered over 1 million in Britain, and over 5 million in the United States. Around half a million British people would have been charged with a terrorist offence, and nearly 2.8 million Americans. By any standards, what Ulster people euphemistically call ‘the Troubles’ is, in fact, a war.'
And exactly how many members of the BA, UDR, RUC etc have been brought before a court of law for doing the 'terrible' things you speak about? And why is the rule of law different for state forces in the o6c snowy? Why is when either PFR (physical force republicans) or violent Loyalists shoot dead people they are charged with murder and given life, yet when state forces commit the same crime they get medals, pats on the back and promotions?
Google Martin Ingram aka Ian Hurst and The FRU (before they were called MRF, 14th intell also called The Det).. RUC special branch don't have a great record either. The UDR was full of dual membership (UVF, UDA, UFF etc)....
The BA were brought back on the streets because the then RUC were being over run. Didn't you learn about the battle of the Bogside in school?
Why aren't the Para's who shot dead 14 innocent people on the streets of Derry in Jan 1972 charged with murder.? Again snowy, as much as this sticks in your throat, stomach or other it was the PIRA who defended Ardoyne not the BA not the RUC, UDR or any state force. The people who defended my area were IRA volunteers such as Martin Meehan, Thomas Clarke, Paddy McAdorey. It wasn't the BA or RUC who prevented St Mathews church in the Short Strand getting burnt down by Loyalists (backed by former B-specials & serving RUC) it was people like Billy McKee. It wasn't the BA or other who stopped the rest of the lower Falls going up in smoke like Bombay Street.. It was 12 men headed by Charlie Hughes.. They are historical fact NOT fiction..
I'll be honest and say I didn't see that or I would have pulled you up on it. I did see your comments about 'BLOODY STUPID NATIVES'.. by that I took you meant EVERYONE in the o6c...And by you thinking like that shows your partitionist, bigoted sectarian mind set. Not mine.
Like shooting dead 14 innocent people on the streets of Derry or 11 on the streets of BallyMurphy or in a drive by in the Newlodge?
What about planting bombs and blowing up Dublin? All justified in your eyes snowy?
Everyone knows what the PIRA/INLA done. Rightly or wrongly they held their hands up and said what they did.
What you refuse to recognise is state sponsored terrorism. Now I'll throw this into the mix just for you snowy.. You constantly say the o6c isn't in Ireland and the 'bloody stupid natives and Belfast catholics (your words not mine) are responsible for the carnage..
Why are you (using your logic not mine) defending the British Army? Surely if everyone who lives in the o6c, rather who were born there are British what does it matter to you..?
Why is an Irish man (you) defending the British Army and the RUC/PSNI? Unless of course I'm right and you are a west Brit.
Now go back and listen to the first video and then goto the RTE iplayer and watch the documentary from last night..
Tell me the difference between innocent Irish men being tortured and innocent Muslims in afghan & Iraq. Now remember the word INNOCENT..throw into the mix the British Gov said after a few visits to the Hague etc they wont do the same again but they did. Then they covered for the Americans. Brazil like the torture techniques that much they imported them to south America. Then Israel use what happened in the o6c as their bench mark on innocent Palestinians.
What is it..Do you like to 'kick the croppy' or something else...
They should be. Makes me glad not to be a member of any church or religion any more. Even trying to get your head around it is difficult. Almost 800 kids thrown in a hole in the ground.
Don't beat yourself up. Makes you wonder what other secrets from the grave Ireland has. It is the same as the Jewish holocaust. It's akin to a war crime.
@Snowy, your comment shows just how narrow minded and bigoted you are that's all I'm saying about your comment.
I stand over it. I disagree with Jean McConville being disappeared. Not the fact she was shot dead. Now what about a well disciplined Army shooting dead mothers and kids (I named three or four in a previous post). or have you forgot that already.
I told whoever what I was going to do if they didn't address the situ. They didn't listen and I carried through with what I said. Not exactly informing wade. There was warnings given (like in the McConville case, warning were given).
Now why don't you lay the blame for her death & disappearance at Gerry Adams door step. He arranged it and gave the nod. Not me.
No we didn't study 'civics' in the o6c..We had boring subjects like maths, HISTORY, geography, a few science subjects, RE and the like.
Now do you think it's ok for the armed forces that are meant to protect it's civilians should be allowed to shoot dead its citizens? Or employ undercover covert forces to drive around in cars and shoot who ever they want..? or employ agents (sometimes make them millionaires in the process) to kill it's citizens?
I don't.
Do you think it's ok for whatever state to discriminate against religion?
I don't.
Do you think any state has the right to frame people for crimes they didn't commit to protect unknown sources?
We could start with Joan Connolly who was shot dead by the BA in BallyMurphy , Sarah Worthington, protestant age 50 shot dead by the BA. Annette Mcgavin 14 shot by the BA .. All before Jean McConville was killed. Want me to continue..?
Now remind the world about the Miami Show band and who blew them up? Wasn't some of people involved members of a BA regiment called the UDR? You wont answer Dublin and Monaghan..
Jean McConville was an informer and in war informers are shot dead. She was warned when it was discovered she was informing. But didn't listen.
I didn't pull the trigger. I didn't arrange for her to disappear. Gerry Adams did. Have a pop at him.
Wade I answer the points you raised. Nothing more or less. You offer nothing in return by way of fact. You can't even mount an argument against the points I've raised...
Then again I know what I'm talking about. You don't. One question, did you watch last nights documentary yet? If yes, what did you think about it....?
I said i understand it. I can justify 95%. Get over it Wade.
Police 'denying' victims' families access to pub bombing papers
Campaigners seeking justice for the 21 victims of the 1974 Birmingham pub bombings claim that West Midlands Police and the Crown Prosecution Service have denied them access to documents which could lead to the killers.
Investigations chief constable Matt Baggott is accused of hindering include the murder of six men by the Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF) at The Heights bar in Loughinsland in June 1994.
It has been claimed that the Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC), the predecessor to the PSNI, did not conduct a proper investigation because it was protecting an informer and that there was collusion between some police officers and the killers.
Who says I walked away from Ireland.. You. Exactly how Irish are you Wade. Don't worry I wont mention the war.
I don't take lessons from a sectarian bigot with no concept of Irishness and who hasn't a clue about Irish history. One island, one Ireland, one vote...
The 1916 Societies recently held their Inaugural Annual Convention in Galbally, Tyrone attended by over 250 delegates and guests from across Ireland. A Coiste Náisiúnta was appointed from the floor and unanimously mandated to campaign for a truly democratic All-Ireland Referendum. The 1916 Societies are an Irish Separatist Movement which aims to re-establish the Principle of Self-Determination for Ireland and are fully committed to the just and noble cause of the 32 Counties of Ireland becoming a United Sovereign Independent Republic.
The proposed Referenda under the existing 1998 Northern Ireland Act do not constitute a vote on National Self-Determination, but would in effect be merely an Internal Six County Border Poll. This in turn would be subject to the British/Unionist “Triple Lock” contained within Schedule 1 of the 1998 Northern Ireland Act i.e. “Lock 1” The Consent/Opinion of the British Secretary of State, “Lock 2” The Consent of the British Government at Westminster and “Lock 3” The Consent of the Unionists in the Six Counties. This Triple Lock is in clear breach of UN Resolution 1514 which states unequivocally at paragraph six that “any attempt aimed at the partial or total disruption of the national unity and the territorial of a country is incompatible with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations.” In more simple terms it is an affront to true democracy and must go.
The 1916 Societies on the other hand have set out in their Position Paper “One Ireland, One Vote” a clear democratic alternative. As the purpose of any referendum is to decide on the future shape of Irish Sovereignty, that vote must be an All-Ireland/32 County Referendum, where the maximum number of Irish Citizens, including the Irish Diaspora, are entitled to vote. The people of Ireland are of course best placed to decide Ireland’s future destiny. International supervision and control will ensure worldwide respect for such a Referendum free from any artificial constraints such as a “minimum turnout requirement.” It will further ensure that a simple majority “Yes” vote will secure the transfer of sovereignty and democratic powers to the people of Ireland. Self-Determination is not simply an abstract “concept” but is in fact a well-established universal right.
Phoenix Forum Posts (6,948)
if I do Pedro i'll make sure it's green weed and not Orange in colour..
RE: what's on your mind part 20
You could go hot, sweet and wet.. But I refer cowboy style.